Grady Jarrett, NT/DT

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

I think with a good enough off-season we could be playoff contenders this season. But that won't happen if we keep ignoring positions of need because we want to continue to add to a loaded position. This is the same reason we ended up with Solomon Thomas. Jarrett while great, is redundant(same with QWILL).

No one in that group is on Jarret's level, right now. Remember that Jarrett himself was a 5th round pick and wasn't immediately great. Most of those players are going to be 2nd to 4th year players, and many have shown at times to be talented. Add to that we just got one of the best d-line coaches in the league. It's conceivable that group could very well improve. They will never be able to improve if we add a finished product like Jarrett in there to eat the lions share of snaps with Buckner. Again, it's not a need. Jarrett wouldn't allow us to take BPA because we'd still have holes. I won't be mad if they pick up Jarrett, but I would be skeptical on how they plan on addressing other issues, and I would be fairly mad if they planned on punting on pressing issues because of signing jarret.

Im okay with AB as I dont think he's going to take a ton of draft capital(probably a third and a conditional pick next year) and WR is a BIG time need. Arguably one of our three biggest needs. NT isn't a big time need imho. We had no problem with interior pressure/stopping the run last year. Our issues on defense were with edge pressure and coverage and he doesn't assist directly with either of those.

1.You keep saying it's a loaded position I guess we just fundamentally disagree there. The only players that play NT are Jones and Day. Not sure how you can argue they have proven much of anything. At least at WR we have Goodwin and Pettis with other weapons in Kittle, Mckinnon, and a pro bowl receiving FB. That FB signing was heavily criticised because it was deemed not an important position... just like NT. Now hes seen as a fan favorite and a very important piece to our championship puzzle because of his versatility. Something which would happen even more so with Jarrett.

2. I disagree we picked Thomas for that reason.IMO had we truly picked BPA we would have chosen Adams. But yet we thought Adams wasnt a need. Sound familiar? Dline/passrush was a need when we picked Thomas... Or do you think he was drafted only because of his run stopping at 3 overall?? We picked Thomas because of "position importance". Just like the idea that's preventing some from understanding the value of what Jarrett could bring. I believe we would make a similar mistake in picking Allen at 2 and not trading down. Not picking up Jarrett (if available) would be similar to not getting Adams and not the Thomas pick.

3. I think you completely ignored my explanation of how it opens up the opportunity to trade down. If any pickup gives us the opportunity to pass on QW, it's Grady Jarrett. Otherwise you risk seeing QW be an all pro and saying, "well we had some promising guys" and coming out of the draft having inferior talent and hurting this team overall. Sure it may be more "balanced" but which team is better? I'd say the one with Jarrett.

4. I think you're downplaying the picks needed to get Brown. No way would we get him for a 3rd and future pick. If you're really all about filling out the roster this year Brown should be the last idea on your mind. I'm for Brown and Jarrett because I know we are not gonna fill out the roster in one year. Not sure how you can argue both AB and filling out every hole on this team.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

I think with a good enough off-season we could be playoff contenders this season. But that won't happen if we keep ignoring positions of need because we want to continue to add to a loaded position. This is the same reason we ended up with Solomon Thomas. Jarrett while great, is redundant(same with QWILL).

No one in that group is on Jarret's level, right now. Remember that Jarrett himself was a 5th round pick and wasn't immediately great. Most of those players are going to be 2nd to 4th year players, and many have shown at times to be talented. Add to that we just got one of the best d-line coaches in the league. It's conceivable that group could very well improve. They will never be able to improve if we add a finished product like Jarrett in there to eat the lions share of snaps with Buckner. Again, it's not a need. Jarrett wouldn't allow us to take BPA because we'd still have holes. I won't be mad if they pick up Jarrett, but I would be skeptical on how they plan on addressing other issues, and I would be fairly mad if they planned on punting on pressing issues because of signing jarret.

Im okay with AB as I dont think he's going to take a ton of draft capital(probably a third and a conditional pick next year) and WR is a BIG time need. Arguably one of our three biggest needs. NT isn't a big time need imho. We had no problem with interior pressure/stopping the run last year. Our issues on defense were with edge pressure and coverage and he doesn't assist directly with either of those.

1.You keep saying it's a loaded position I guess we just fundamentally disagree there. The only players that play NT are Jones and Day. Not sure how you can argue they have proven much of anything. At least at WR we have Goodwin and Pettis with other weapons in Kittle, Mckinnon, and a pro bowl receiving FB. That FB signing was heavily criticised because it was deemed not an important position... just like NT. Now hes seen as a fan favorite and a very important piece to our championship puzzle because of his versatility. Something which would happen even more so with Jarrett.

2. I disagree we picked Thomas for that reason.IMO had we truly picked BPA we would have chosen Adams. But yet we thought Adams wasnt a need. Sound familiar? Dline/passrush was a need when we picked Thomas... Or do you think he was drafted only because of his run stopping at 3 overall?? We picked Thomas because of "position importance". Just like the idea that's preventing some from understanding the value of what Jarrett could bring. I believe we would make a similar mistake in picking Allen at 2 and not trading down. Not picking up Jarrett (if available) would be similar to not getting Adams and not the Thomas pick.

3. I think you completely ignored my explanation of how it opens up the opportunity to trade down. If any pickup gives us the opportunity to pass on QW, it's Grady Jarrett. Otherwise you risk seeing QW be an all pro and saying, "well we had some promising guys" and coming out of the draft having inferior talent and hurting this team overall. Sure it may be more "balanced" but which team is better? I'd say the one with Jarrett.

4. I think you're downplaying the picks needed to get Brown. No way would we get him for a 3rd and future pick. If you're really all about filling out the roster this year Brown should be the last idea on your mind. I'm for Brown and Jarrett because I know we are not gonna fill out the roster in one year. Not sure how you can argue both AB and filling out every hole on this team.

1. So you deem our interior defensive line play as one of the issues for our team? Buckner and Armstead also received snaps at nose, and did fine . Teams don't run nearly as much as they used too. You don't need a true nose on all downs. So it isn't just day and Jones as we rotate a bunch of players into that position.

2. Nice try, John lynch went on after the draft and said his board was Garrett, Solomon, and foster. So it had everything to do with BPA. If he didn't take Solomon he said he would have taken foster. That's just your view on who the BPA WAS

3. I still think you pass on QWILL if you can't trade down. There comes a point where BPA is dumb. If QB is the BPA three years in a row do you take three QB's? No, that would be an idiotic use of resources. We have used multiple draft picks on interior dlinemen esch is the last three years. It's time we allow our new Dline coach a chance st developing them. We could role with the crew we have now and be fantastic. Perhaps add in a cheap nose to back up DJ. Would rather spend top end money at FS, CB, WR, or G. Far more pressing issues.

4. How would brown, the arguable best player at his position be bad for this team? Jarrett is a luxury pick up in my opinion who doesn't fill a glaring need. I do think he'll come cheaper because of his age, contract, and the shenanigans at the end of the season. But this isn't about brown as I'm not tied to him. There's other options I'd be fine with.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
1. So you deem our interior defensive line play as one of the issues for our team? Buckner and Armstead also received snaps at nose, and did fine . Teams don't run nearly as much as they used too. You don't need a true nose on all downs. So it isn't just day and Jones as we rotate a bunch of players into that position.

2. Nice try, John lynch went on after the draft and said his board was Garrett, Solomon, and foster. So it had everything to do with BPA. If he didn't take Solomon he said he would have taken foster. That's just your view on who the BPA WAS

3. I still think you pass on QWILL if you can't trade down. There comes a point where BPA is dumb. If QB is the BPA three years in a row do you take three QB's? No, that would be an idiotic use of resources. We have used multiple draft picks on interior dlinemen esch is the last three years. It's time we allow our new Dline coach a chance st developing them. We could role with the crew we have now and be fantastic. Perhaps add in a cheap nose to back up DJ. Would rather spend top end money at FS, CB, WR, or G. Far more pressing issues.

4. How would brown, the arguable best player at his position be bad for this team? Jarrett is a luxury pick up in my opinion who doesn't fill a glaring need. I do think he'll come cheaper because of his age, contract, and the shenanigans at the end of the season. But this isn't about brown as I'm not tied to him. There's other options I'd be fine with.

1. Yes! It is a huge issue. Getting pressure on the QB has been a massive issue. Jarrett is not just an amazing run stopper he is a fantastic pass rusher. Whether he plays NT or not shouldn't matter. How is Armstead even part of your solution? He clearly is not gonna remain here for much longer. How many sacks or pressures came from anyone outside of Buckner besides Armstead (who will not be resigned) from the interior? I'll tell you... it was very VERY close to none. Possibly zero. Not to mention Jarrett can line up outside anyway so it doesn't matter. I really do question if you have watched Jarrett because you did you would not think he would only play a few downs. He would easily be our second best pass rusher, defender, and at least top 4 player overall on the team! Cutting Armstead this year, Mitchell, and a few others... and boom! We have enough room for him easy.

2. Why do you care what JL says? Obviously, he is going to say the players he picked were the top players on his board lol. It really is irrelevant what JL thinks because we are talking about what we would do. Did you personally see Thomas as BPA and he hasn't produced because of some other reason? I think you can see the flaw in that logic. He hasn't produced because he obviously wasn't BPA. So don't try and say he was and that is why we are in this mess. You don't think the fact they had a need for passrusher and Tartt already on the team had anything to do with the pick not being Adams? In what world do we pick more for need and less for BPA like you suggest and come out of the draft with Adams who clearly should have been the pick right? It doesn't make any sense.

3. So you would pass on BPA if we had to pick at 2 because we have Buckner and a bunch of very unproven guys? That is how you end up with inferior talent like Thomas you got it backwards when I know we want the same things. That is how you end up with a player like Allen (possibly) who ends up not producing and then what? Can you pick passrusher again next draft or no you just ignore that it hasn't worked? Again you are ignoring the fact that signing Jarrett would allow us to trade down and not pick BPA at that stubborn position you don't see as a need because we clearly eliminated that need now. Not try some patchwork job but actually got the best there is out there, a proven player. We have plenty of cap space and having two elite DTs who can rush the passer would be huge. I guess I should ask you do you recognize QW as the BPA at 2? If you do... how can you feel comfortable passing on him as we did with Adams? At least QW would start in front of a late round pick and not a high second rounder like Tartt.

4. Jarrett is a luxury pick? I'm sorry but all the players you mentioned in Jones, Day, Thomas, and Taylor have proved way less than Goodwin and Pettis but you don't call AB a luxury why not? Jarrett is exactly how to fix a problem without using more draft capital and thus making us that more complete roster you and I both want.

I think there is a huge difference in philosophy. If the 3rd QB was Peyton Manning (as a FA) and you drafted Jamarcus Russell and Troy Smith would you pass on Manning? I would cut my losses and take Peyton. Was Calvin Johnson a bad pick because they already drafted a WR twice? Need does play a part I don't dispute that but not with players like Jones, Day or any other interior player you think is decent. This is an all-pro caliber player not some decent NT who only plays a few downs. Drafting or signing more for need on a team this desperate for stars is how you stay irrelevant. Jarrett allows us to finally put to bed the horrible first round picks and let's us move on to address those needs.

looks like ATL is cutting a bunch of fat to resign Garrett and probably get a one or both of their LBers extended somehow.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
looks like ATL is cutting a bunch of fat to resign Garrett and probably get a one or both of their LBers extended somehow.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

looks like ATL is cutting a bunch of fat to resign Garrett and probably get a one or both of their LBers extended somehow.

Agreed

Originally posted by Waterbear:

if we can get Buck on a similar contract, I'll be pumped!