Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson - Legit alternative to Jared Goff in 2017?

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

What position do you see Allen playing? To me he seems like a natural DT in a 4-3. If you're suggesting that we switch to a 4-3, how would that impact our personnel? He doesn't seem big enough to play NT and a 3-4 DE at #2, after picking 3-4 DE's in back to back drafts seems folly.

Moving to the 4-3 makes more sense with this roster. We lack the lbs to play a 3-4 again and I'm including depth as well as starters. The 4-3 and Allen would play to our strength.

That would all change if Garrett falls in the niners lap and Lynch gets his s**t right, but either way with them 2 strictly rushing the passer it would be great, plus a great majority of the time the niners are in their nickel D so it wouldn't matter much if they switched

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:
Int's are extremely important. A turnover can be equivalent of 50-70 passing or rushing yards at times because it flips the field. That's the reason the Chiefs are doing so well this season.

But I don't fault Winston for his too much. He had 28td's to go with those 18 picks. And Phil Rivers was the guy who had more picks. If Winston had his star RB then he wouldn't have had to throw so much this season. It's only his second season and almost all the top 15 QBs had similar struggles in their first 2-4 seasons except they didn't have as many TDs and yards as Winston.

I agree I don't mean int's aren't important. I just think it gets too much attention. I don't mind if my qb takes risks especially when he's young as long as he learns from it. I feel like Manning threw a ton of int's early in his career and he cleaned that up. But to make that the reason you wouldn't take a guy who shows leadership and can make all the throws is silly. You can work on reads and when to take risks but how do you work on being a leader or showing the toughness he showed last night?

The problem with this argument is that you're assuming Watson's interceptions came when he was trying to fit the ball into tight windows. That was not the case for most of his interceptions - most were either fluke tipped/dropped passes or throws where he just didn't appear to see the defender over the middle of the field or misread the coverage. I don't consider Watson to be a gunslinger in the mold of Favre or Luck - he also doesn't have the arm to attempt some of the throws that Favre attempted. I think he actually does a decent job of making check downs when he reads the coverage correctly.

I'm more concerned with Watson's accuracy and yards per attempt than his interceptions. He doesn't make a lot of difficult throws and attempted a lot of short passes which inflates his completion percentage (along with having elite receivers who adjust to the ball and make difficult catches). Trubisky is the most accurate of the top QBs and Kizer has the best size and best arm. Kizer may even be the 2nd most accurate - he throws downfield the most of the 3 and is forced to throw into tight windows far more often than Watson because he has no talent around him. If Watson's only issue was that he forces throws, he'd be the #1 pick.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
The problem with this argument is that you're assuming Watson's interceptions came when he was trying to fit the ball into tight windows. That was not the case for most of his interceptions - most were either fluke tipped/dropped passes or throws where he just didn't appear to see the defender over the middle of the field or misread the coverage. I don't consider Watson to be a gunslinger in the mold of Favre or Luck - he also doesn't have the arm to attempt some of the throws that Favre attempted. I think he actually does a decent job of making check downs when he reads the coverage correctly.

I'm more concerned with Watson's accuracy and yards per attempt than his interceptions. He doesn't make a lot of difficult throws and attempted a lot of short passes which inflates his completion percentage (along with having elite receivers who adjust to the ball and make difficult catches). Trubisky is the most accurate of the top QBs and Kizer has the best size and best arm. Kizer may even be the 2nd most accurate - he throws downfield the most of the 3 and is forced to throw into tight windows far more often than Watson because he has no talent around him. If Watson's only issue was that he forces throws, he'd be the #1 pick.

I read that Watson is one of the better QBs at the long ball in this QB class, but that maybe why he was erratic earlier in the season. Down the stretch they said he upped his game. Although, you don't want to judge on one game, Watson did what few QBs have done, lit up Bama for over 400 total yards each game over the last two years. Although he and Clemson may not have consistently throttled the opposing D, he was clutch and calm-I like that in a QB. Plus, he got whacked by Bama earlier in the game that I thought he wasn't going to make it thru the game. In today's NFL that is another thing you want, someone who can take it, sure don't want a Tony Romo. Now the biggest thing is his attitude and behavior leading up to and after the draft, don't want no RGIII, Johnny Football, or other head cases that especially have fathers who want to try calling the shots.

https://instagram.com/p/BPGoWSXjmXP/

I mean...that doesn't happen often. I like him even more now

Originally posted by WildBill:
I read that Watson is one of the better QBs at the long ball in this QB class, but that maybe why he was erratic earlier in the season. Down the stretch they said he upped his game. Although, you don't want to judge on one game, Watson did what few QBs have done, lit up Bama for over 400 total yards each game over the last two years. Although he and Clemson may not have consistently throttled the opposing D, he was clutch and calm-I like that in a QB. Plus, he got whacked by Bama earlier in the game that I thought he wasn't going to make it thru the game. In today's NFL that is another thing you want, someone who can take it, sure don't want a Tony Romo. Now the biggest thing is his attitude and behavior leading up to and after the draft, don't want no RGIII, Johnny Football, or other head cases that especially have fathers who want to try calling the shots.

Statistically, it wouldn't surprise me if that's true, because he throws jump balls and wide open deep balls to Mike Williams and Cain with a pretty high rate of success. But he also attempts a lot of passes at or near the line of scrimmage compared to someone like Kizer who throws a lot more intermediate passes which is one reason why his yards per attempt is far below Kizer and Trubisky if you exclude the hurricane game they played in. Of the top 3 QBs, Watson probably has the weakest arm - it's still strong enough to make NFL throws, but there aren't a lot of QBs 6'2 or shorter who were drafted in the top 5 without having plus arms.

Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:
https://instagram.com/p/BPGoWSXjmXP/

I mean...that doesn't happen often. I like him even more now

He's a really good kid - none of these QBs raise any concerns off the field. Definitely a positive that he convinced his teammates to volunteer with him. He's the opposite of Connor Cook coming out.

Yeah you can't say anything negative about his character. Kid has all the intangibles you want. Great leader, comes up big in big games/clutch, smart, hard working, etc...

His questions are really similar to what many QBs coming from spread offenses have which is can they adjust to the NFL and still play at such a high level.

Watson's decision making, turnovers, hot/cold accuracy and Clemson's playcalling to help him out are really the only flaws but they're still flaws and history shows that those flaws are not easy to overcome. We saw some of those same flaws with Kap but Watson is a different guy so it's pure speculation on how he transitions to the NFL game.

Originally posted by genus49:
Yeah you can't say anything negative about his character. Kid has all the intangibles you want. Great leader, comes up big in big games/clutch, smart, hard working, etc...

His questions are really similar to what many QBs coming from spread offenses have which is can they adjust to the NFL and still play at such a high level.

Watson's decision making, turnovers, hot/cold accuracy and Clemson's playcalling to help him out are really the only flaws but they're still flaws and history shows that those flaws are not easy to overcome. We saw some of those same flaws with Kap but Watson is a different guy so it's pure speculation on how he transitions to the NFL game.

Watson did get blown up a few times

Hopefully he's not another RG3 and get himself injured

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:

https://instagram.com/p/BPGoWSXjmXP/

I mean...that doesn't happen often. I like him even more now

He's a really good kid - none of these QBs raise any concerns off the field. Definitely a positive that he convinced his teammates to volunteer with him. He's the opposite of Connor Cook coming out.

You mean accurate?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:
https://instagram.com/p/BPGoWSXjmXP/

I mean...that doesn't happen often. I like him even more now

He's a really good kid - none of these QBs raise any concerns off the field. Definitely a positive that he convinced his teammates to volunteer with him. He's the opposite of Connor Cook coming out.

You mean accurate?

I was thinking likeable but that works too

A breakdown of all of Watson's throws this season.

Ok I've calmed down... very hyped up over this kid last night. I couldn't just ignore how he had his way with Alabama's defense / Saban two years in a row in the biggest games of his life (so far). But I'm over the hype.

I still think he has the IT factor though. A leader! You gotta like a guy who is up for the big spot light and doesn't choke (under 3 minutes to lead the winning drive / TD) against Tide D

He's got a lot to learn, no doubt, but if he's a quick study and excels in the next level, we'll be dealing with a lot of "I told ya so" ... that won't be as bothersome as (potentially) having to face and lose to him (knowing we passed him up)... not saying it's gonna happen, I'm just sayin.

so we taking him at 2 right?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
A breakdown of all of Watson's throws this season.

Thanks for sharing this - where did you find it? Curious to compare this to Trubisky and Kizer's passing attempts. It did look like Clemson threw a lot of WR/TE screens and let those guys make plays - they had to gameplan against Alabama with shorter throws as well to beat the blitz. It looked like many of Watson's deeper passes (go routes, posts, and corners) weren't difficult throws - they were jump balls to some of his bigger receivers or throws to open receivers. He did look good throwing outs though and showed good timing and placement most of the time.

It's interesting that more than half his passing yards are after the catch - I'm guessing that ratio is closer to 33% for Kizer having watched all of ND's games this year.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Ok, i'll take the bait...

Lynch - Armstrong - Allen - Buckner
Armstrong - ?? - Bowman
Robinson - Ward - Reid - Brock

Italics - liability

Replace Lynch with Blair/Tank and move him to OLB or situational pass rusher/elephant and move Bow back inside. I'd also bench Armstead in favor of Dorsey and just use him in pass rush situations. We have two other OLB's that could loose a little weight in Brooks, Harold to compete with Lynch and Brooks could still be used as simply a pass rusher.