Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:
I think we should be awfully concerned about the fact that Belichick was willing to trade him, and for only a 2nd round pick, when he used a 2nd rounder to draft him to begin with.

Belichick does not lose on trades. He knows how to make it so that all his coaches and players would fail anywhere else. He teaches them to fail without him, and they don't realize it. He's the greatest chess player of all time.

He makes it so his players can't succeed outside the Patriots' gimmick offensive and defensive systems, and he makes it so his coaches have no idea how to implement what he does anywhere else. The man is a twisted genius. Last year's Patriots team was the least talented roster in the NFL, and he made them 17-2 and Super Bowl champions.

The NFL runs through Belichick. You have a chance to win when he decides he's going to give you a chance to win. Our only hope is that Belichick just felt bad about letting Jimmy's career go to waste backing up Brady for another 5 years. Otherwise, we're going to see Jed talking about "accountability" and how he wants to "compete to with Shuper Bowlsh" after a couple firings in another 3-4 years.

Since when is an Erhardt-Perkins offense a gimmick? In fact, it's one of the 3 main pro offenses.

That's not even remotely what they're running. You're classifying it as something from over 30 years ago based on a freak'n tree.

How do you know that's not what they are running? Yes it was created over 30 years ago, but it lives on today, just like WCO terminology, and Air Coryell terminology. But E-P is just that, a method to calling plays. Forget how they call the plays for a minute. Think more about what the plays are requiring the players to do. The Patriot's passing offense is very complicated with many route adjustments by the WRs. Nothing about it is a gimmick. I'm assuming your definition of gimmick is, "simple, easily defended, not sustainable". There are many WRs that just can't grasp it and can't function in that offense. Regarding their defense, it's a multiple defense that will run 3-4 and 4-3 in the same game. Not a gimmick.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/22/tom-brady-patriots-charlie-weis-option-routes
But what truly separates the Patriots' system is the extensive combination of receiver route adjustments, based on the defense or a defender's positioning, that all pass catchers—even running backs—have to know. Most offenses include at least a sprinkling of option routes designed, essentially, to use a defense against itself. But New England's offense is built on them.
When Brady is surrounded by talented players who know the system and can execute it—like the group the Patriots had during the bulk of their 10–0 start, with Gronkowski, Edelman, receiver Danny Amendola and running back Dion Lewismostly healthy—this offense can make sweet, unstoppable music. And when Brady doesn't have that luxury? Whoever those players are, they won't be staying around for long. "There were a couple guys in our past, he wouldn't throw the ball to them," says Weis. "You'd get pissed and say, 'Why didn't you throw to him?' He'd answer, 'I didn't trust him.'

My definition of a "gimmick" in football is when it's physically easy. When it requires little talent to succeed. When the players who succeed in it are "products of a system."

Yeah, it could be mentally tough...but that just means you get the nerdier players instead of the physically talented ones. To me, that's everything that is wrong with sports. I watch sports to see great athleticism competing against great athleticism, not everything being about some coach outthinking the other one.

When Chris Hogan succeeds and Chad Johnson fails, that system is bad for sports.

Joe Montana says he couldn't get 225 lbs off his chest if they would have asked him to bench press. I sure like watching him in Bill Walsh's system. I saw Jim Druckenmiller pull a car accross a field and he was painful to watch in the Red and Gold.

Accurate passing is physically difficult. Jim Druckenmiller couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

So you think Chris Hogan was a better wide receiver than Chad Johnson?

Chris Hogan now is better than Ochocinco was in New England.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000870851/article/shanahan-49ers-might-not-play-garoppolo-this-year

This makes a world of sense. I figured Jimmy G. wouldn't agree to it because he wants to play so badly, but if he's good with it going into FA, then GO 1-15!!!

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

So you think Chris Hogan was a better wide receiver than Chad Johnson?

I think he is a smarter receiver. And that is what that scheme puts emphasis on. Guys who thrive on that scheme may not be do as well in some others but guys who have had success elsewhere can also flop right on their face in New England.


Basically the Patriots are great at identifying guys who will work in their scheme and not everyone else's.


As far as Garoppolo is concerned, the same skills and traits which made him a good fit for that offense also make him a good fit for what Shanahan likes to run.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:
I think we should be awfully concerned about the fact that Belichick was willing to trade him, and for only a 2nd round pick, when he used a 2nd rounder to draft him to begin with.

Belichick does not lose on trades. He knows how to make it so that all his coaches and players would fail anywhere else. He teaches them to fail without him, and they don't realize it. He's the greatest chess player of all time.

He makes it so his players can't succeed outside the Patriots' gimmick offensive and defensive systems, and he makes it so his coaches have no idea how to implement what he does anywhere else. The man is a twisted genius. Last year's Patriots team was the least talented roster in the NFL, and he made them 17-2 and Super Bowl champions.

The NFL runs through Belichick. You have a chance to win when he decides he's going to give you a chance to win. Our only hope is that Belichick just felt bad about letting Jimmy's career go to waste backing up Brady for another 5 years. Otherwise, we're going to see Jed talking about "accountability" and how he wants to "compete to with Shuper Bowlsh" after a couple firings in another 3-4 years.

Since when is an Erhardt-Perkins offense a gimmick? In fact, it's one of the 3 main pro offenses.

That's not even remotely what they're running. You're classifying it as something from over 30 years ago based on a freak'n tree.

How do you know that's not what they are running? Yes it was created over 30 years ago, but it lives on today, just like WCO terminology, and Air Coryell terminology. But E-P is just that, a method to calling plays. Forget how they call the plays for a minute. Think more about what the plays are requiring the players to do. The Patriot's passing offense is very complicated with many route adjustments by the WRs. Nothing about it is a gimmick. I'm assuming your definition of gimmick is, "simple, easily defended, not sustainable". There are many WRs that just can't grasp it and can't function in that offense. Regarding their defense, it's a multiple defense that will run 3-4 and 4-3 in the same game. Not a gimmick.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/22/tom-brady-patriots-charlie-weis-option-routes
But what truly separates the Patriots' system is the extensive combination of receiver route adjustments, based on the defense or a defender's positioning, that all pass catchers—even running backs—have to know. Most offenses include at least a sprinkling of option routes designed, essentially, to use a defense against itself. But New England's offense is built on them.
When Brady is surrounded by talented players who know the system and can execute it—like the group the Patriots had during the bulk of their 10–0 start, with Gronkowski, Edelman, receiver Danny Amendola and running back Dion Lewismostly healthy—this offense can make sweet, unstoppable music. And when Brady doesn't have that luxury? Whoever those players are, they won't be staying around for long. "There were a couple guys in our past, he wouldn't throw the ball to them," says Weis. "You'd get pissed and say, 'Why didn't you throw to him?' He'd answer, 'I didn't trust him.'

My definition of a "gimmick" in football is when it's physically easy. When it requires little talent to succeed. When the players who succeed in it are "products of a system."

Yeah, it could be mentally tough...but that just means you get the nerdier players instead of the physically talented ones. To me, that's everything that is wrong with sports. I watch sports to see great athleticism competing against great athleticism, not everything being about some coach outthinking the other one.

When Chris Hogan succeeds and Chad Johnson fails, that system is bad for sports.

Joe Montana says he couldn't get 225 lbs off his chest if they would have asked him to bench press. I sure like watching him in Bill Walsh's system. I saw Jim Druckenmiller pull a car accross a field and he was painful to watch in the Red and Gold.

Accurate passing is physically difficult. Jim Druckenmiller couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:
I didn't say he told him he was going to run it in SF. Harbaugh and Walsh used to talk regularly when Walsh was still alive.

Are you seriously going to tell me, with a straight face, that what the 49ers are running here ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx7GgzZYTpc ) is the same offensive system as what the Packers are running here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMhGuBvyp5E ).

You couldn't come up with more dissimilar systems if you tried. You could run Tom Osborne's Nebraska offense and use WCO terminology. It wouldn't make it the WCO.

Dude, it's not my fault you haven't taken the time to differentiate between concepts and formations. You know why the terminology is the same? It's because they are running the same concepts. A drive, spot, Sail, Mesh or whatever is the same concept regardless of what personnel grouping or formation that is used. Bill preferred more 21 personnel and horizontal stacked formation, today teams like 11 personnel more and shotgun. Earlier you said Holmgren never used shotgun, I suggest you go back and look at the latter portion of his Seattle days.

The plays don't have the same concepts.

What, you think the WCO is the only system that has a freak'n drive route? Hate to break it to you, but the Patriots and every other team has all the exact same routes that Walsh ran somewhere in their playbook. They just don't have the same concepts in the plays they run as far as the combinations, the progressions, or the down and distance play calling.

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

I think we should be awfully concerned about the fact that Belichick was willing to trade him, and for only a 2nd round pick, when he used a 2nd rounder to draft him to begin with.

Belichick does not lose on trades. He knows how to make it so that all his coaches and players would fail anywhere else. He teaches them to fail without him, and they don't realize it. He's the greatest chess player of all time.

He makes it so his players can't succeed outside the Patriots' gimmick offensive and defensive systems, and he makes it so his coaches have no idea how to implement what he does anywhere else. The man is a twisted genius. Last year's Patriots team was the least talented roster in the NFL, and he made them 17-2 and Super Bowl champions.

The NFL runs through Belichick. You have a chance to win when he decides he's going to give you a chance to win. Our only hope is that Belichick just felt bad about letting Jimmy's career go to waste backing up Brady for another 5 years. Otherwise, we're going to see Jed talking about "accountability" and how he wants to "compete to with Shuper Bowlsh" after a couple firings in another 3-4 years.

Since when is an Erhardt-Perkins offense a gimmick? In fact, it's one of the 3 main pro offenses.

That's not even remotely what they're running. You're classifying it as something from over 30 years ago based on a freak'n tree.

How do you know that's not what they are running? Yes it was created over 30 years ago, but it lives on today, just like WCO terminology, and Air Coryell terminology. But E-P is just that, a method to calling plays. Forget how they call the plays for a minute. Think more about what the plays are requiring the players to do. The Patriot's passing offense is very complicated with many route adjustments by the WRs. Nothing about it is a gimmick. I'm assuming your definition of gimmick is, "simple, easily defended, not sustainable". There are many WRs that just can't grasp it and can't function in that offense. Regarding their defense, it's a multiple defense that will run 3-4 and 4-3 in the same game. Not a gimmick.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/22/tom-brady-patriots-charlie-weis-option-routes
But what truly separates the Patriots' system is the extensive combination of receiver route adjustments, based on the defense or a defender's positioning, that all pass catchers—even running backs—have to know. Most offenses include at least a sprinkling of option routes designed, essentially, to use a defense against itself. But New England's offense is built on them.
When Brady is surrounded by talented players who know the system and can execute it—like the group the Patriots had during the bulk of their 10–0 start, with Gronkowski, Edelman, receiver Danny Amendola and running back Dion Lewismostly healthy—this offense can make sweet, unstoppable music. And when Brady doesn't have that luxury? Whoever those players are, they won't be staying around for long. "There were a couple guys in our past, he wouldn't throw the ball to them," says Weis. "You'd get pissed and say, 'Why didn't you throw to him?' He'd answer, 'I didn't trust him.'

My definition of a "gimmick" in football is when it's physically easy. When it requires little talent to succeed. When the players who succeed in it are "products of a system."

Yeah, it could be mentally tough...but that just means you get the nerdier players instead of the physically talented ones. To me, that's everything that is wrong with sports. I watch sports to see great athleticism competing against great athleticism, not everything being about some coach outthinking the other one.

When Chris Hogan succeeds and Chad Johnson fails, that system is bad for sports.

Why is it bad? Everyone in the NFL is a top athlete...what separates them is worth ethic and smarts. Sorry Chad is a dummy and couldn't comprehend the playbook.

I mean you must have hated Montana cause he wasn't some athletic monster lol

So you think Chris Hogan was a better wide receiver than Chad Johnson?

The stats say no.
What is the point of the comparison?

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Accurate passing is physically difficult. Jim Druckenmiller couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

The plays don't have the same concepts.

What, you think the WCO is the only system that has a freak'n drive route? Hate to break it to you, but the Patriots and every other team has all the exact same routes that Walsh ran somewhere in their playbook. They just don't have the same concepts in the plays they run as far as the combinations, the progressions, or the down and distance play calling.

You're wrong....they are in fact the same football concept. That's what makes it a DRIVE CONCEPT

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000870851/article/shanahan-49ers-might-not-play-garoppolo-this-year

This makes a world of sense. I figured Jimmy G. wouldn't agree to it because he wants to play so badly, but if he's good with it going into FA, then GO 1-15!!!

Not buying it at all. Sure is Jimmy G won't have full grasp of Shanahan's playbook on a full month at least but doubtful they sit him entire season. This is clearly a huge smokescreen.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by susweel:

I bet Jimmy is refusing to play behind this OLine without a fat guaranteed contract.

If I were KS and thought he was my FQB I wouldn't want him playing behind this OL either

He wouldn't be my FQB if he was refusing to play for those reasons.

yep, and he's not

guys, you do realize that the only reason you are discussing this "issue" is susweel's very subjective opinion?

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

So you think Chris Hogan was a better wide receiver than Chad Johnson?

Doesn't matter if he can't understand playbook...go look at how many uber athletes come out of the draft and suck. Everyone is athletic.

FYI hogan ran a faster 40 than Chad and is 20lbs bigger than him...they both are very good route runners, but one didn't get a real shot until he got to NE. (He was a UDFA brought in by SF actually).

I feel like we have to play him a couple games. I'd rather he not be completely cold going into next season.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

The stats say no.
What is the point of the comparison?

His point is athletic ability should be the reason a player is good not the system or qb throwing him the ball. Chad sucked in NE cause he couldn't understand the playbook, yet Chris Hogan is doing pretty well (it's not like he's a s**tty athlete anyway).

Guess what all NFL players are good athletes, but there's other things that separate players other than athletic abilities...I asked him if he hated Montana cause well he wasn't a uber athlete lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000870851/article/shanahan-49ers-might-not-play-garoppolo-this-year

LOL! Please....

After the bye week at the latest. Likely against the Giants.

Originally posted by NorthBay49er:

Jimmy Garoppolo to Trent Taylor.

(Woulda gone for 6 IMHO had Taylor not lost his footing.) pic.twitter.com/RJYFIgY5g0

— Joe Fann (@Joe_Fann) November 1, 2017

The Garoppolo era begins

Finally someone throwing to my boy Taylor

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:
Accurate passing is physically difficult. Jim Druckenmiller couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

The plays don't have the same concepts.

What, you think the WCO is the only system that has a freak'n drive route? Hate to break it to you, but the Patriots and every other team has all the exact same routes that Walsh ran somewhere in their playbook. They just don't have the same concepts in the plays they run as far as the combinations, the progressions, or the down and distance play calling.

You're wrong....they are in fact the same football concept. That's what makes it a DRIVE CONCEPT

There are many different ways to run a "drive," which can be any number of different route combinations. It's just a high/low concept. If that's how you wish to define "concept," then every single offense has this "concept" in their playbook, as well as every other, which would mean everybody is running the same system. But they're not.

And Vic Fangio agrees with me:

"The West Coast Offense that everyone claims they run, nobody really runs the West Coast Offense that Bill Walsh used to run. All these self-proclaimed West Coast Offenses really are not running Bill Walsh's offense. They use his nomenclature in defining and naming formations, but they're really not running the offense that he used to run. Everybody's taken their own version of it and put their own little mark on it, but to me, I don't see anybody running the West Coast Offense."