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Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

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Originally posted by Sinsation:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Have to wait for the end zone view to be sure, but I believe the Wagner INT was more a bad throw than a vision or timing issue. The throw was way behind Sherfield. You can even see Trent throw his hands up after like "What the f**k?"

Its been mentioned before, but its pretty obvious to me now that JG just can't read defenses. He's just made the same mistakes so many times now. And we're all watching it and asking, how does he not see the defender right there in the middle of the field? It's maddening. When we've got the run game working, KS can call plays that give Jimmy what I consider, easy reads/throws. When he has to actually read and react, he looks completely lost.

What I am seeing is that Jimmy has already decided where the ball is going presnap. He's basically making an educated guess. When we have the run game going, the motions and PA create easy throwing windows for him, to the spots he's already guessed would be open.

On that Wagner INT, the PA with Brunskill and Juz pulling left is supposed to pull the LBs in. It pulled Brooks(56) and Mayowa(10) in but Wagner's too smart for that. Even with Wagner not fooled by PA, the play was still there! Jimmy HAS to be able to see that. Sherf was crossing the field, almost even with Wagner, there's no way Wagner could adjust to run with him. This should have been an easy pass outside the hash. JG prob practiced this play a lot and just expected the PA to create that throwing lane for him. IDK, It seems pretty elementary to me, and not a huge ask to expect your QB to see a defender, know your WR's route will run him open, and to throw to the open space and not right at the defender. He's blind to it because he's not actually looking or reading anything.

the 2nd INT was just as bad. Hawks show Cover 3. Typical soft spot against Cover 3 is the exact spot Jimmy threw to. The seam behind the LB and under the S. With no Deebo, everyone knows Kittle is his next favorite security blanket. He clearly was trying to force the ball to Kittle here according to his presnap read. But if he was actually reading the defense at all, he'd see Wagner, one of the best coverage LBs in the NFL, taking his drop DEEP, effectively taking away that weakness. Easy read progression there, if the LB's vacate deep the easy throw would have been underneath middle, to Woerner or Mitchell. If he continues his progression, he also would have seen the left deep CB sticking with Aiyuk AND Sherfield running to open grass in the deep third. Jimmy has plenty of time to let this play develop, could have just played it safe to Woerner/Mitchell or a big play Sherfield for a TD. He instead threw it to the one spot he absolutely should not have. Again, its because I think he already made up his mind on where the ball was going was expecting the window to be there.

QB's often have to take what the defense is giving you. The problem with Jimmy is he's not seeing what the defense is giving him. At this point I'm just done with hoping he'll progress or get any better. He is what he is. He's a liability that needs to be protected with a solid run game and superb play calling. I also understand that Trey isnt ready so cool, we're stuck with Jimmy for now. Just be prepared for more teams selling out to stop the run and daring Jimmy to take over the game, and for him to disappoint us. From what I've seen over the years, its a good gamble for our opponents.

Yeah pretty much.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
They have been pretty quiet for 4 weeks. Same in the Mac Jones thread.

A lot has built up since then.

Let them have this one and get it out of their system.

Hopefully we get back on track with our winning formula next week.

lol since when have I been quiet about Jimmy? I gave him praise the past month or so. I didn't think he played very will vs MINN and he was bad vs Seattle. Nothing this year has changed how I view Jimmy. He's inconsistent and has been for years.

Who gives a s**t about Mac? He gets to play the easiest schedule in football, has one of if not the best defenses in football, and a top 10 rushing team. He's not SF's QB and people need to give over it.

It has NOTHING about 'Letting this have this one" it's talking about the game and what the only problem really is (Jimmy Garoppolo). The QB is the only one.

FTFY

As far as I am aware, literally NO ONE here has said Jimmy is the only problem.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mayo49:
I'm sick of watching Garoppolo throwing off his back foot - next year can't get here soon enough.

Hopefully Trey has a great private QB coach this off season who continues to work with him on his own mechanics too. I want him to come in ready to go.

Do you think he can come in ready to go after just collecting dust the last 2 years?
Originally posted by WINiner:
When Jimmy came in on Fire to end the 17 season I was convinced hook line and sinker. 4 years later and I really can't wait for him to be gone. Im so sick of the indecision and bad ints. Every freaking week im sreaming at the TV "THROW THE FREAKING BALL!!!". 4 years later and he still seems to struggle with Shanahans offense. Im over it. I hope and pray that Trey is the man, because Jimmy is not and we are treading water with him at QB imo.

I'm with you on that one. I thought Jimmy was the truth. I thought it was awesome that the nfl was moving towards mobile QBs and it looked like we were going to dominate with a primarily pocket QB (Jimmy was quite a bit more mobile 2017/2018).

But 2020 made me go back and watch some of those 2017/2018 games and his flaws were evident even back then.

2018 seemed like a different Jimmy. He was the Jimmy that we know today. The indecisiveness was obvious in those couple of games. I don't know if it's Kyle wanting things a certain way or if it was the pressure of being the starter that really got to him.

Regardless he hasn't improved since then. 2019 was an aberration of everything going our way. Jimmy was supposed to elevate those around him. Unfortunately he hasn't been that outside of a few games here or there.

I don't know if Trey is the answer but I do know Jimmy is not, at least for the current niners.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by Sinsation:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
yeah same here. starting to think he doesn't know the plays
He knows the plays. That's not the problem. KS uses the motions and shifts to make it easier to recognize the defense. Jimmy then makes an educated guess on what the coverage is and then decides PRESNAP, where the ball is going. The problem is when he guesses wrong and still makes the bad throw, it results in those head scratching INTs. The run game and PA help hide this BIG deficiency.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
What's worse than the bonehead plays are the one's he isn't making. So much is left out on that field. I don't know yet whether Trey can take advantage of those opportunities or not but im not going to pretend those misses, alongside the bad secondary, aren't the biggest factors in why the 9ers are 6-6.
Yes, I have also noticed how many big plays he leaves out there. Again, the only logical explanation for him not seeing it, is because he's not actually looking for it. He has already decided; the defense showed me this, I'm throwing it here.

TThat's how that's how it's supposed to work though isn't it? The quarterback has a progression and if the first read is open or looks like it might be open then that's where the ball goes. It doesn't matter that four other receivers might be wide open. the play goes to where it's designed. Now here's a question. Is it a good play or a bad play if the quarterback breaks progression and throws to a target of opportunity? Well it's probably a good thing, unless the receiver drops it or the throw doesn't work out or a Defender comes in to cover and maybe make a pic. Then what happens when the quarterback gets to the sideline? The quarterback gets chewed out by his control freak coach for taking a chance and messing up when obviously the brilliant play design would have worked out perfectly. If that's the mentality on the sideline I wouldn't expect any quarterback to be taking too many chances even if the receivers are wide open. How are you so sure that's not the case?

That's not how it's supposed to work. A good QB who really understands defenses will know the coverage based on where he's looking — including post-snap — and adjust his plan on the fly. Now bad QBs on the other hand get fooled by disguised coverages, because they can't adjust post-snap.

I won't even say it's "overcoming coaching." It's not even that. It's called reading a defense.

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And just to clarify: unless it's a screen pass, or some other concept where there is one and only one target, "the play goes to where it's designed" means the play goes to the optimum open man based on what the defense does. This is the NFL, not High School. Even pure progression passing concepts have alerts, and alternate progressions where the QB can decide which side to start his progression from. And even then, in the rare case where there's one progression and that's it, if there's a wide open touchdown waiting to be had, the QB absolutely, positively should "break progression" and throw it. That is what the best ones do, and that's why they end up in the Hall of Fame. That's what the good ones do, too.

But I mean come on. You are sitting here, really, truly saying that if an INTERCEPTION is in the progression, that the QB should absolve himself of all common sense and human intellect, and just throw the interception? Really? A competent QB looks at the defense and utilizes the play to exploit the defense. That's what Kurt Warner said in his latest Jimmy G video (that he looked at the defense, not the WRs in the progression, and found out where the open guy would be because of that. You know, using this little novel concept called... reading the defense).
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by mayo49:
I'm sick of watching Garoppolo throwing off his back foot - next year can't get here soon enough.

Jimmy doesn't throw off his backfoot. He just doesn't step into his throws. He's all hip torque. It's great for quick throws but a terrible habit for anything intermediate to deep.

I consider it a flaw - he needs to step into his throws, that's why he doesn't have any zip on his throws. He needs to correct that with his new team next year.

The optimal scenario is to do both when they are called for by what's happening on the field. I believe the 49ers hoped that would be how he progressed (among other things). But clearly he hasn't very much on that (although there have been a few beautiful passes this year where it appears he in fact did use proper mechanics, so there probably was a little progress there. He's made some progress in other areas as well, it seems. But he's still throwing the inexplicable interception, either because his field vision is still subpar or he actually can't read defenses and is a Kaepernick without legs).
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mayo49:
I'm sick of watching Garoppolo throwing off his back foot - next year can't get here soon enough.

Hopefully Trey has a great private QB coach this off season who continues to work with him on his own mechanics too. I want him to come in ready to go.

Do you think he can come in ready to go after just collecting dust the last 2 years?

He's been running the scout team the whole year so not all has been lost.
Originally posted by Dsoto87:
Originally posted by WINiner:
When Jimmy came in on Fire to end the 17 season I was convinced hook line and sinker. 4 years later and I really can't wait for him to be gone. Im so sick of the indecision and bad ints. Every freaking week im sreaming at the TV "THROW THE FREAKING BALL!!!". 4 years later and he still seems to struggle with Shanahans offense. Im over it. I hope and pray that Trey is the man, because Jimmy is not and we are treading water with him at QB imo.

I'm with you on that one. I thought Jimmy was the truth. I thought it was awesome that the nfl was moving towards mobile QBs and it looked like we were going to dominate with a primarily pocket QB (Jimmy was quite a bit more mobile 2017/2018).

But 2020 made me go back and watch some of those 2017/2018 games and his flaws were evident even back then.

2018 seemed like a different Jimmy. He was the Jimmy that we know today. The indecisiveness was obvious in those couple of games. I don't know if it's Kyle wanting things a certain way or if it was the pressure of being the starter that really got to him.

Regardless he hasn't improved since then. 2019 was an aberration of everything going our way. Jimmy was supposed to elevate those around him. Unfortunately he hasn't been that outside of a few games here or there.

I don't know if Trey is the answer but I do know Jimmy is not, at least for the current niners.

I had hoped that under Shanahan's tutelage his flaws would improve but as you stated, they remain. He's infuriating because he has periods where he plays very well, and then others where he just s**ts the bed in games he should easily win. Yesterday was one of those games.
Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Originally posted by CJ75:
Crazy how turnover prone he is for a game manager

Lol
Crazy some haven't noticed that for years that seattles owned us


Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Originally posted by eric_anthony:
Originally posted by trevorontario:
Kyle needs to limit Jimmy's pass plays to 20 tops, and run the rest of the time to limit his turnovers

Get a new qb then who doesn't turn the ball over too much

Not directed at anyone in particular however it is Kind of hilarious on here..
it's like some of you haven't been watching the 49ers play Seattle for the last 10 years..
lol

Seattles won 17 of the past 20, & I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Jimmy didn't play the other 16 games…

Jimmy didn't play well, but we've gotten hammered by Seattle for years with different coaches & players including the QB..

None of those past seasons are causally linked to the Shanahan era beyond the fact that Seattle still has some great talent (even if they've been eroded some), and that stadium is hard to play in. In the Harbaugh era, they simply had more talent from top to bottom, and that stadium engineered to maximize sound.

And none of the Seattle games matter much in talking about Jimmy. I mean, have you watched him play more than a game against Seattle? The absurd interceptions are NOT something new. They happen against the Vikings. They happen against the Patriots. They happen against the Lions. They happen fairly frequently and have approximately NOTHING to do with the teams we are playing.
Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mayo49:
I'm sick of watching Garoppolo throwing off his back foot - next year can't get here soon enough.

Hopefully Trey has a great private QB coach this off season who continues to work with him on his own mechanics too. I want him to come in ready to go.

Do you think he can come in ready to go after just collecting dust the last 2 years?
probably doesn't know how to throw a FB anymore
Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Originally posted by CJ75:
Crazy how turnover prone he is for a game manager

Lol
Crazy some haven't noticed that for years that seattles owned us

Crazy that you think the point of CJ75's comment is exclusive to yesterday.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Originally posted by CJ75:
Crazy how turnover prone he is for a game manager

Lol
Crazy some haven't noticed that for years that seattles owned us

Crazy that you think the point of CJ75's comment is exclusive to yesterday.

You said in one sentence what took me four paragraphs to try to say. Well done.
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by spizzy:
Originally posted by jcs:
Brady threw a pick 6 today....guess he's washed up.

come on now..how is that comparable? He also threw 4 tds


Gotta love the key details left out after games. Posters literally come here just to pep talk themselves that they're right in liking whomever they like.

Seriously Question for you..

Do you honestly feel you're contributing to football dialogue by mocking posters constantly on every one of your posts??

Or does your narcissistic personality prevent you from seeing you do this??
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mayo49:
I'm sick of watching Garoppolo throwing off his back foot - next year can't get here soon enough.

Hopefully Trey has a great private QB coach this off season who continues to work with him on his own mechanics too. I want him to come in ready to go.

Do you think he can come in ready to go after just collecting dust the last 2 years?
probably doesn't know how to throw a FB anymore

Bummer.
Originally posted by D-NOTTE:
Originally posted by DrEll:
If his backup was Mac Jones, I'd be all for moving on at this point. Jimmy is an average to slightly above average quarterback. He reminds me of Alex Smith, who I considered to be average to slightly below average. Everything needs to click for these guys to succeed. One mishap (eg ST mistakes, running game not working) and these guys just don't have what it takes to overcome adversity.

With that said, I have MAJOR doubts about Trey Lance. The fact that Shanahan and Co. don't think he's progressed enough to see the field is troubling. I think Niner brass blundered with the draft. They should have sat pat and let Mac fall into their laps. He was the most pro ready and I think he was Kyle's choice. Instead they went all in for a project QB who clearly is not looking like an overall number 3 pick and we're stuck with the do-or-die mantra with Jimmy.

@ DrEII Dude your tripping. Patriots are doing the same thing they just described has to be done for Jimmy to win. Run the ball a ton, Play top tier defense, and limit his throws. Thats exactly what they are doing in NE. For you to assume Mac is better than Trey because Mac is getting opportunities lacks data....... Trey played one game with Shanny just wanting him to run up the middle the whole time and almost beat the team with the best record in the NFL. I don't get the scenario of why you think Mac is better? Perhaps you might want to evaluate who has the better coach......

D-Notte…I think we saw trey's game differently. Incidentally, i could have written ELL's post above. Kyle didn't run trey up the middle, Trey gave it a one read and GO…kinda like Kap a few yrs back. That one game showed kyle all he needed to know…Trey is as green as his record, with one yr out of football (covid) at a small school Div 3 or whatever. He's green as grass, and takes off if 1st read is gone. PLaying him now would only make it worse, hence JG. I like jmmy, but like the 49ers better, so i hope and pray trey comes around.

unfortunately like ELL, i am afraid we may have made a mistake. Believe me i hope not, and hope trey can control his impulse to read one and GO. That isn't what kyle drafted him for. But his one game? Yikes, one look and he's gone. Me? It had to be a QB, but thot for sure we'd play the #13 card and take whoever was there, whether Fields, Lance or Mack. I want to be wrong on this, but my gut tells me no. For us that's a catastrophe, so I'm pulling for trey.
i just wish I felt good about it.
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