Analysis from Seahawks Game coaches film

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Your posts are making me sad...JK...but in a way...this goes back to Roman not using players strengths and incorporating them into the game plans...something many have been pointing out for a while, but your examples of Moore and Ginn hurt a bit this morning--Moore because I'd forgotten, Ginn because I see him having success this year in a different system.

There have been a couple of attempts at bombs this year but so few that none spring to mind. I agree with you, Mac, that all of these receivers can get down the field for a bomb...speed is only part of the equation on long passes. Dwight Clark and Brent Jones used to be used occasionally on bombs so speed is definitely not an absolute. Setting up the bomb is much more important.

LOL. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer. But clearly, these low % plays don't fit into the HaRoMan M.O. here. Meanwhile, over in Seattle, it's fairly similar in that if Wilson's first read isn't open, he too ends up in ad lib-mode a lot, scrambling, yet the FIRST thing he looks for is his WR's taking notice and sprinting deep to space. They practice these ad lib bombs non-stop and it shows. Why can't we do this?

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

for whatever reason roman doesn't like to spread the wealth. its reflective in the snaps that the guys get

if you're only getting 10% of the snaps and 5% of those snaps are run plays?

if you're a hunter and you only get 10 snaps and virtually none of them call for you to leak out and make a play? its difficult.

some of the calls kill momentum. 3rd and 2, read option plays for 6 yard losses.. that's a predictable formation/down/call and the result showed it.

quick snapping on 3rd and 1 near the goal line...resulting in the o line totally whiffing on blocks and resulting in a loss and a field goal when you run the same play 2 times later...with the line set and it works easily both times.. makes me scratch my head

I'll show this play, It was actually good game-planning by Seattle.

This is a FB bubble dive. The idea is their trying to attack the "bubble" which is a combo on the 1 technique(outside shade of the Center.



We try and combo the 1 technique but Seattle pulled some gamesmanship here. They slant the line to the weakside. Mebane slants into a 0 technique spot(head up on the center) while Canty #79(I think that's 79) slants from a 4 technique to a 3 technique.



Because Mebane slants away Boone fires out at a guy who disappears, whiffing, Canty is then able to slant right into the hole Miller is diving into



79 is then able to blow up the play

First off, great thread. I've been offline a few days and come back to an early Christmas gift. Really good work.

Second, when I watched the replay of the game, this play had me screaming mad - but for another reason. Not sure if already discussed, but from the broadcast angle, it looks like we gave away a possible TD.

We had two WRs to Kap's left, but Seattle countered with only 1 CB - Maxwell. Why couldn't we just throw a quick screen to Crabtree and have Boldin block Maxwell? We could definitely get the first down and more than likely Crab walks into the end zone.

If you still have access, can you post a picture from the sideline angle and let me know your thoughts?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Eh... vertical speed sure helps, but we see WRs around the league with less than burner speed getting deep. We see them timing their jumps and winning 1-vs-1 matchups even in tight coverage. And then there's always the flag-throwing refs that can turn a deep attempt into a 30+ yard DPI. Find the single covered receiver running deep... use that God-given arm strength... and see what happens. Just try it a handful of times a game. This is what fans begged for in recent years with similar WR talent... why not demand it all the more with a QB that can fling it deep so effortlessly?

Agreed on so many levels. Last year we had Moss running deep go's and post routes all game long to occupy 2 DB's. But did we ever pass to him? Rarely. We also had "speed" in Walker but only passed to him 21 times all last year. We even had the 4.2 Ginn but the last time we passed a bomb to him he made a TD against Baltimore (called back) and we never tried again. This year we had a speedy Jenkins (traded), Moore (known in Miama for his deep sideline speed and catches) and we started using VD out wide more (very fast once he gets going). But do we use them?

Obviously the philosophy is to keep everything in the intermediate (i.e. "chunk plays") zone to keep the passes at a higher probablity of success and b/c that's CK's strength (and our personnel's route running strengths).

I genuinely don't think even if we DID have Jacoby Jones, we'd use him properly - we'd probably just run nothing but go and post-route decoys with him to open under the underneath, intermediate zones.

In fact, can anyone name one single time we tried a bomb this year?

Your posts are making me sad...JK...but in a way...this goes back to Roman not using players strengths and incorporating them into the game plans...something many have been pointing out for a while, but your examples of Moore and Ginn hurt a bit this morning--Moore because I'd forgotten, Ginn because I see him having success this year in a different system.

There have been a couple of attempts at bombs this year but so few that none spring to mind. I agree with you, Mac, that all of these receivers can get down the field for a bomb...speed is only part of the equation on long passes. Dwight Clark and Brent Jones used to be used occasionally on bombs so speed is definitely not an absolute. Setting up the bomb is much more important.

realize, there are very few ways to actually scheme someone just running down the sideline to be open. To get that kind of play, the defense, really, has to give it to you. I've been watching a lot of film on last year when Moss was here and he really did make a difference in the game. You see the safety's getting rolled his way a lot. He didn't have the elite speed he once had, but teams were definitely respecting it. It's what helped crabs have a 1,000 yard season.

Wow! I don't think I have gone into any other threads for a couple of days now. This is all I need.

Also, it's 49ers Friday talk on 95.7 The Game. 49ers ALL DAY LONG!!!

Between this thread and 49ers Friday...heaven.

Originally posted by olapac:
First off, great thread. I've been offline a few days and come back to an early Christmas gift. Really good work.

Second, when I watched the replay of the game, this play had me screaming mad - but for another reason. Not sure if already discussed, but from the broadcast angle, it looks like we gave away a possible TD.

We had two WRs to Kap's left, but Seattle countered with only 1 CB - Maxwell. Why couldn't we just throw a quick screen to Crabtree and have Boldin block Maxwell? We could definitely get the first down and more than likely Crab walks into the end zone.

If you still have access, can you post a picture from the sideline angle and let me know your thoughts?

On the broadcast it looked like they were open but they weren't, I'll show you.



It looks like the 2 receivers are open but they're not. They bunch tight, meaning they probably had two plays in the huddle, one for man coverage and one for zone. If it's man Kaep changes the play and they run a "rub" route. Seattle, instead runs zone cover 3. You can tell it's zone because Sherman doesn't move over to the 2 receiver side. They always dropped the weakside OLB into coverage from this front. So Seattle has 3 guys in position on the two receivers plus the availability of Thomas to rotate over and still double Vernon with Sherman and Chancellor. Where they run the dive is open pre-snap. Seattle just did a good job of gamesmanship. However, because of this play we were able to score our TD in the game.

The WR screen is probably open, but remember, it was 3rd and 1(really less) and we would've had 4 downs to punch it in from the 4 yard line. Several things can go wrong on a WR screen and if the dive is there, take it. We gotta give it to Seattle(I really hate saying that!).




Because G-Ro saw the zone 3 in the red zone of the previous 2 possessions he runs a great cover 3 buster. Vernon said he knew before the snap that he had won. As well do I. It's too hard for a linebacker moving laterally to cover Vernon running across his face. I touched on this play earlier so I won't say much about it other than this was a good, "game within a game" recognition by G-Ro to call the right play.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes, he really showed up this game. I'm seeing elevated play...he's standing out now when the ball is in the air. He seems to be playing faster, with more passion, etc. Between he and Brock, this is starting to become a special group. Brown who? Now, if we can get Mr. "1/2-assed" Rogers to play with some passion, urgency and physicality, we'd be unstoppable, esp. on 3rd downs.

thl408...perhaps we can now start analyzing schemes (theorize) on the defense as to why we tend to play our CB's sooooo far off at times (and back pedaling), esp. on 3rd and shorts for easy completions.

I'm working on this, I'm going to show some examples from other games to show how we play our man and zone coverage. In this game it was all about gameplanning against Russel Wilson. It will make sense when I can grab and analyze all the stuff, my internet is running really slow right now so it's taking longer.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Eh... vertical speed sure helps, but we see WRs around the league with less than burner speed getting deep. We see them timing their jumps and winning 1-vs-1 matchups even in tight coverage. And then there's always the flag-throwing refs that can turn a deep attempt into a 30+ yard DPI. Find the single covered receiver running deep... use that God-given arm strength... and see what happens. Just try it a handful of times a game. This is what fans begged for in recent years with similar WR talent... why not demand it all the more with a QB that can fling it deep so effortlessly?

Agreed on so many levels. Last year we had Moss running deep go's and post routes all game long to occupy 2 DB's. But did we ever pass to him? Rarely. We also had "speed" in Walker but only passed to him 21 times all last year. We even had the 4.2 Ginn but the last time we passed a bomb to him he made a TD against Baltimore (called back) and we never tried again. This year we had a speedy Jenkins (traded), Moore (known in Miama for his deep sideline speed and catches) and we started using VD out wide more (very fast once he gets going). But do we use them?

Obviously the philosophy is to keep everything in the intermediate (i.e. "chunk plays") zone to keep the passes at a higher probablity of success and b/c that's CK's strength (and our personnel's route running strengths).

I genuinely don't think even if we DID have Jacoby Jones, we'd use him properly - we'd probably just run nothing but go and post-route decoys with him to open under the underneath, intermediate zones.

In fact, can anyone name one single time we tried a bomb this year?

Your posts are making me sad...JK...but in a way...this goes back to Roman not using players strengths and incorporating them into the game plans...something many have been pointing out for a while, but your examples of Moore and Ginn hurt a bit this morning--Moore because I'd forgotten, Ginn because I see him having success this year in a different system.

There have been a couple of attempts at bombs this year but so few that none spring to mind. I agree with you, Mac, that all of these receivers can get down the field for a bomb...speed is only part of the equation on long passes. Dwight Clark and Brent Jones used to be used occasionally on bombs so speed is definitely not an absolute. Setting up the bomb is much more important.

realize, there are very few ways to actually scheme someone just running down the sideline to be open. To get that kind of play, the defense, really, has to give it to you. I've been watching a lot of film on last year when Moss was here and he really did make a difference in the game. You see the safety's getting rolled his way a lot. He didn't have the elite speed he once had, but teams were definitely respecting it. It's what helped crabs have a 1,000 yard season.

100% agreed! Play designs to get deep sideline shots are few and far between. That said, let's look at our personnel now: soooo much attention has to be given to Boldin, Manningham, Crabtree and VD there will be some real chances to exploit a defense (aside from the obvious - short, middle of the field and in the flats). We tend to run a lot of AR's along the sidelines (b/c CK has that big arm). I'm wondering on SO many of these (decoy) go routes, we take a couple shots running posts off them. Get a defense focused on the intermediate range, looking down hill, and then BAM, instead of a come-back or curl or slant in/out, you run a POST off it or even a stop-and-go like Crabtree's 60 yarder. Another way to exploit it is with you RB, FB and TE's. We run many Q-formations (CK in shotgun with two players lined up with him on either side deep in the backfield). If we asked, upon snap, to have Gore, Hunter, James, Miller or McDonald SPRINT out of the backfield (let's say to the left sideline) while the non-AR's run their routes flooding the right side of the field (a bunch of deep go's and curls or slants/square outs) we'd have these guys in isolation and with a full head of steam, I don't know if ANY LB can turn and catch them deep. Thoughts?

It's been said 100 times already, but this thread is fantastic! Not only the photos with highlights but the in-depth analysis and responses from jonny have shed new light on the play calling and Kap's abilities for me.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes, he really showed up this game. I'm seeing elevated play...he's standing out now when the ball is in the air. He seems to be playing faster, with more passion, etc. Between he and Brock, this is starting to become a special group. Brown who? Now, if we can get Mr. "1/2-assed" Rogers to play with some passion, urgency and physicality, we'd be unstoppable, esp. on 3rd downs.

thl408...perhaps we can now start analyzing schemes (theorize) on the defense as to why we tend to play our CB's sooooo far off at times (and back pedaling), esp. on 3rd and shorts for easy completions.

I'm working on this, I'm going to show some examples from other games to show how we play our man and zone coverage. In this game it was all about gameplanning against Russel Wilson. It will make sense when I can grab and analyze all the stuff, my internet is running really slow right now so it's taking longer.

Fantastic...drives me absolutely I look forward to this one...in fact, my son and I have a blast with it (not really). We play this game on 3rd downs and simply watch to see which CB is furthest off. You'll never guess who the QB goes too instantly. You already know the results!

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes, he really showed up this game. I'm seeing elevated play...he's standing out now when the ball is in the air. He seems to be playing faster, with more passion, etc. Between he and Brock, this is starting to become a special group. Brown who? Now, if we can get Mr. "1/2-assed" Rogers to play with some passion, urgency and physicality, we'd be unstoppable, esp. on 3rd downs.

thl408...perhaps we can now start analyzing schemes (theorize) on the defense as to why we tend to play our CB's sooooo far off at times (and back pedaling), esp. on 3rd and shorts for easy completions.

Exactly, I actually like Eric Wright and Brock as the starters on the outside.
Rogers has a tough job but teams now just target him and his area. they don't really even look or depend on the outside because of the coverage those passes don't get completed.

the play tate got a penalty on, the comeback route.. he's running and eric is stride for stride.. he stutters eric stutters he comes back and eric is about to come back too until he pushes. it was beautiful to watch.

Also on another 3rd seam pass to Rogers man that RW threw behind which eliminated the possibility of a completion. If you look at the play again, and focus outside, you see Eric Wright stride for stride with his man, inside leverage head back looking for the ball.. RW couldn't have thrown it if he wanted to.

The almost Int he baited him into thinking he was open but he knew his tendencies and made the jump. Same with brock.. these guys are underrated considering we don't just get a lot of sacks out there. The pressure has stepped up though, Aldon isn't getting sacks but he's beating his man almost every single snap and causing the qb to move around. If it's an immobile qb, they probably get sacked 4 times by Aldon last game. Got so bad the tackle had to tackle him by his face mask which went uncalled.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Always good to remember these guys are human and even the best make mistakes. Not that Boone is all-pro yet, but they are all still learning and if they have assembled a smart team then this group should really continue to improve and excel.

They are it wasn't meant as a slight on Boone, just how if it was executed properly that's a walk in td,

It's also the same play we ran on the crucial 3rd down for the game winning drive just a little different. Same formation as before but the blockers pulled making a convoy and the wr's started blocking as well as opposed to the almost touchdown where the wr's cleared out before they blocked and the line just met man to man with boone going to the 2nd level. I think that if they run some passes out of that set... that's deadly because if it can go either way you're on your toes..

you crowd anticipating run, and you get beat off the line that's an easy td.

you play back anticipating pass then the blockers greet you down the field and you're out of the play

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Yes! Bowman diagnosed quickly and looked like he was at a track meet! Love that guy! He was spying Wilson, but how many MLBs could make that play? Willis looks like he has lost a step but Bowman seems to be just as fast as always. Of course, a big part of speed is early recognition!

I don't think Willis has lost a step, I think he's bout as fast as Bowman is, he just totally was out of position or made to look out of position on that Te big gain play and td play..

but side to side, they usually get there at the same time. he just didn't have spy responsibilities they're scary good.
the play we're talking about Bowman is spying, moves to the side where the action was, wilson escaped the pocket due to aldon's pressure and started to do his head up possible pass down the field play.. but as soon as he was out of the pocket Bowman made a b line right to him. So fast.. it was almost like he was in Wilson's blind spot.
Wilson was looking down the field not in front of him and Bowman just came and hit him and Wilson never saw it coming

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer. But clearly, these low % plays don't fit into the HaRoMan M.O. here. Meanwhile, over in Seattle, it's fairly similar in that if Wilson's first read isn't open, he too ends up in ad lib-mode a lot, scrambling, yet the FIRST thing he looks for is his WR's taking notice and sprinting deep to space. They practice these ad lib bombs non-stop and it shows. Why can't we do this?

We're starting to. Boldin does a good job, vd does a good job and crab does a good job. Manningham doesn't do a good job of adlib patton shows a natural knack for adlib plays macdonald when given the chance has found creases in ad libs.. and kyle williams is kyle williams... route done and stand there.

that's all it comes down to. the 1st step is having them all feel they can catch a pass..and that's by assigning them a route and not a decoy play. you can see the players when they run their decoy routes they're not into the play.. so yes they clear out but it isn't with urgency it's a going through the motions thing.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
We're starting to. Boldin does a good job, vd does a good job and crab does a good job. Manningham doesn't do a good job of adlib patton shows a natural knack for adlib plays macdonald when given the chance has found creases in ad libs.. and kyle williams is kyle williams... route done and stand there.

that's all it comes down to. the 1st step is having them all feel they can catch a pass..and that's by assigning them a route and not a decoy play. you can see the players when they run their decoy routes they're not into the play.. so yes they clear out but it isn't with urgency it's a going through the motions thing.

THIS has been a HUGE issue all year long. They know damn well their part of the play is over and they aren't getting the ball. That said, it should be COACHED INTO THEM that if that AR doesn't get the ball, they better bust their asses to give CK some viable options b/c we all know he is going to buy some time with his legs. Sometimes these ad lib receivers get caught in no-man's land b/c they don't know whether to get AWAY from the defender as a passing option for CK or engage and block for him while CK runs. Often times it leads to CK just throwing it away or it goes for no gain as CK runs out of bounds.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed on so many levels. Last year we had Moss running deep go's and post routes all game long to occupy 2 DB's. But did we ever pass to him? Rarely. We also had "speed" in Walker but only passed to him 21 times all last year. We even had the 4.2 Ginn but the last time we passed a bomb to him he made a TD against Baltimore (called back) and we never tried again. This year we had a speedy Jenkins (traded), Moore (known in Miama for his deep sideline speed and catches) and we started using VD out wide more (very fast once he gets going). But do we use them?

Obviously the philosophy is to keep everything in the intermediate (i.e. "chunk plays") zone to keep the passes at a higher probablity of success and b/c that's CK's strength (and our personnel's route running strengths).

I genuinely don't think even if we DID have Jacoby Jones, we'd use him properly - we'd probably just run nothing but go and post-route decoys with him to open up the underneath, intermediate zones.

In fact, can anyone name one single time we tried a bomb this year?

Cannot and that should change considering how strong Kap's arm is.
We should take a couple shots a game from the 20, just a play action and let it rip. I think it would probably be best if it was vd who went into motion and then ran it either in the middle or out wide and let him run as fast as far as he can and have Kap throw it as far as he can.

He's getting there I believe with his touch throws he has the chemistry with Manningham and Boldin for the back shoulder throws. Crab is not thinking back shoulder he has the step he's thinking go further out. that's why some of those passes were incomplete. I think Kap needs to adjust to him not the other way around. Throw it out there and let him go get it, he's not boldin or manningham, he'll get the step and keep the step and keep running past the defender he doesn't need to stop in order to assure the catch.