49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
With the new college rules and more players staying in school it seems the top 3/4 rounds will become very valuable whereas 5 on will drop significantly.

Some have said the line should be: TW | Banks | Feliciano | Puni | McKivitz

Obviously RT is scary with a rookie RG next to him, but that may be our best 5 to roll will. Since its very hard for all 5 guys to stay healthy all year our depth will be just as important. Especially at tackle... oooooof

Great points about the college game really changing because of the NIL and conference shifts. I can see star players that would go first round make more money staying in college vs being drafted by the NFL.

Day 3 guys like Zakelj, Moore and McKivits are guys that Foerster likes.

And were we possibly ready to draft guys higher in the draft? Yes. But if there's somebody that can touch the ball and make plays, in my opinion, if you ask me, 'Chris, do you want him?' I want the guy that touches the ball, for me. Because I think we can develop those players much more readily and have developed those players through the times because we do have specific things that we're looking for. We know what we're looking for through the course of time. That's the advantage of being together with Kyle for so long that we kind of can pigeonhole these guys.
-- Chris Foerster

So unless ShanaLynch force feeds Foerster some Day 1 or Day 2 offensive line picks, he'll go day 3 picks all day because it's the *system* and he knows how to develop them from day 3 picks to equivalent day 1 picks. I think ShanaLynch got tired of being out-talented in the playoffs and the Superbowl and picked Puni high to get that talent edge back at the playoff and Superbowl level.

There is a difference in talent between a day one pick and a day three pick. I.e just look at the production of CMC vs Matt Brieda or Elija Mitchell. I think Foerster can get away with system fit OLine players in the regular season, but in the playoffs - guys that are bigger, stronger, and faster will dominate guys that don't have the size, strength, and power. (Burford vs Chris Jones).

This right here! All the traits that made them late round draft picks are exposed.

They will run back the same o line with JF over Burford. Moore and Burford are both just wasting roster spots. We have seen very little to no development.

I was listening to Kreuger and he makes it sound like the starting offensive line for your 2024 San Francisco 49ers will be Williams-Banks-Nugent-Puni-Hubbard.

Originally posted by northoakland510:
This right here! All the traits that made them late round draft picks are exposed.

Originally posted by lamontb:
They will run back the same o line with JF over Burford. Moore and Burford are both just wasting roster spots. We have seen very little to no development.

Originally posted by TopDogBerkeley:
I was listening to Kreuger and he makes it sound like the starting offensive line for your 2024 San Francisco 49ers will be Williams-Banks-Nugent-Puni-Hubbard.

I think it's premature for folks to see any type of development yet till preseason. They are still recovering from the 2023 season. They aren't doing a lot of team stuff on the OLine yet. Keep in mind, the OLine has to perform as one mind, not five separate people. They all have to read the defensive fronts they get, the line protections that are called out to adjust, and lots lots lots of reps with each other to act with great synchronicity. Even if you have 5 trent williamses on that OLine, if they don't act with great unity - Purdy or CMC is going to get killed behind that OLine.

We had a CMC fumble and a muffed punt which led to a very lucky win for KC in a game where we took the lead THREE times in the fourth quarter and OT and still lost with 9 seconds left in OT. Dudes were tackling defenders on third and long and whatnot in order to get it done so we were a play away doing it Foersters way

Then we've played twenty game seasons these last three years more than any team has and it's obviously been working. Would I personally desire a greater investment in the OL? Certainly, but I can't really argue with the moves we've made thus far this offseason given our draft and salary cap
position so I'm willing to roll the dice one more time

Originally posted by JTB1974:
Forester seems very high on Jaylon Moore. Says he keeps improving every year. Kyle also talked highly of him this offseason. So he is pretty much a lock.

Trent
Banks
Brendel
Feliciano
Mckivitz
Puni
Moore

7 locks IMO. And Burford is close to a lock.

The way its trending Moore will be a decent start by age 33.

I don't believe they like Jaylon Moore as much as they claim. Entering the last year of his deal, they can easily lock him.up for cheap and not risk his value going up any more (for example- if he saw a significant amount of games as a starter next year). They are committed however. Stubbornly committed. We'll see this preseason if there's any growth.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I don't believe they like Jaylon Moore as much as they claim. Entering the last year of his deal, they can easily lock him.up for cheap and not risk his value going up any more (for example- if he saw a significant amount of games as a starter next year). They are committed however. Stubbornly committed. We'll see this preseason if there's any growth.

I'm not sure how you can say they are stubbornly committed to Moore when they have not extended him and they instead extended McKivitz. They brought in veteran OTs so Moore actually might be on the weak bubble at this point.

Originally posted by TopDogBerkeley:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I don't believe they like Jaylon Moore as much as they claim. Entering the last year of his deal, they can easily lock him.up for cheap and not risk his value going up any more (for example- if he saw a significant amount of games as a starter next year). They are committed however. Stubbornly committed. We'll see this preseason if there's any growth.

I'm not sure how you can say they are stubbornly committed to Moore when they have not extended him and they instead extended McKivitz. They brought in veteran OTs so Moore actually might be on the weak bubble at this point.

I started off by saying they don't like him as much as they claim they do. Maybe the ending wording should've been they want to appear they are committed to Moore.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I don't believe they like Jaylon Moore as much as they claim. Entering the last year of his deal, they can easily lock him.up for cheap and not risk his value going up any more (for example- if he saw a significant amount of games as a starter next year). They are committed however. Stubbornly committed. We'll see this preseason if there's any growth.

It feels like that they dont really like Moore, but moreso value his and other underwhelming players' familiarity with the system.

It has been a pattern that I never really liked, because it stunts talent growth. Early on when the team was not as talented they plugged some mid to late round guys in like Kittle, Warner and so forth and let them become great and elite. Now that team is talented, there is a steep learning curve and familiarity takes precedence. I mean sure, for a backup swing tackle it might not be the worst thing, but Trent always misses some games during the season...

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I don't believe they like Jaylon Moore as much as they claim. Entering the last year of his deal, they can easily lock him.up for cheap and not risk his value going up any more (for example- if he saw a significant amount of games as a starter next year). They are committed however. Stubbornly committed. We'll see this preseason if there's any growth.

I agree in a sense. But they are comfortable enough with Jaylon to keep him and not draft a *true* offensive tackle and drafted Puni who is a more versatile plug-him-anywhere on the OLine kind of player.

One reason is Brock's quick read and release. 80+% of the time on pure pass plays (not play action passes), Pudy is throwing the ball in under 2.5 seconds. I think Jaylon can hold most DLinemen out for that amount of time. However in the playoffs - that math changes against guys like Riddick, Chris Jones, and Nick Bosa level talent.

The other reason is that interior pass rush pressure poses more of a problem to guys like Purdy who don't have the height and have undersized OLinemen protecting the interior, that can be bull rushed into Purdy's throwing lanes from the middle of the DLine.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I don't believe they like Jaylon Moore as much as they claim. Entering the last year of his deal, they can easily lock him.up for cheap and not risk his value going up any more (for example- if he saw a significant amount of games as a starter next year). They are committed however. Stubbornly committed. We'll see this preseason if there's any growth.

I agree in a sense. But they are comfortable enough with Jaylon to keep him and not draft a *true* offensive tackle and drafted Puni who is a more versatile plug-him-anywhere on the OLine kind of player.

One reason is Brock's quick read and release. 80+% of the time on pure pass plays (not play action passes), Pudy is throwing the ball in under 2.5 seconds. I think Jaylon can hold most DLinemen out for that amount of time. However in the playoffs - that math changes against guys like Riddick, Chris Jones, and Nick Bosa level talent.

The other reason is that interior pass rush pressure poses more of a problem to guys like Purdy who don't have the height and have undersized OLinemen protecting the interior, that can be bull rushed into Purdy's throwing lanes from the middle of the DLine.

I get it takes work and time to get guys to that level, but when we look at the team, pre-draft, we were very good at WR, RB, QB, DL, and CB, however it was short term because we didn't have many guys locked up for the long term. Post draft, we look great at WR, CB, potentially stronger on DL with a run stuffer at 2i, stronger at safety, and interior OL is potentially better.

Maybe they felt the time needed to get a tackle where they wanted them would take longer than it would to potentially replace guys like Ward, Lenoir, etc.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I don't believe they like Jaylon Moore as much as they claim. Entering the last year of his deal, they can easily lock him.up for cheap and not risk his value going up any more (for example- if he saw a significant amount of games as a starter next year). They are committed however. Stubbornly committed. We'll see this preseason if there's any growth.

I agree in a sense. But they are comfortable enough with Jaylon to keep him and not draft a *true* offensive tackle and drafted Puni who is a more versatile plug-him-anywhere on the OLine kind of player.

One reason is Brock's quick read and release. 80+% of the time on pure pass plays (not play action passes), Pudy is throwing the ball in under 2.5 seconds. I think Jaylon can hold most DLinemen out for that amount of time. However in the playoffs - that math changes against guys like Riddick, Chris Jones, and Nick Bosa level talent.

The other reason is that interior pass rush pressure poses more of a problem to guys like Purdy who don't have the height and have undersized OLinemen protecting the interior, that can be bull rushed into Purdy's throwing lanes from the middle of the DLine.

I get it takes work and time to get guys to that level, but when we look at the team, pre-draft, we were very good at WR, RB, QB, DL, and CB, however it was short term because we didn't have many guys locked up for the long term. Post draft, we look great at WR, CB, potentially stronger on DL with a run stuffer at 2i, stronger at safety, and interior OL is potentially better.

Maybe they felt the time needed to get a tackle where they wanted them would take longer than it would to potentially replace guys like Ward, Lenoir, etc.

Yes that us a valid point. Purdy's cap hit is comming and they are preparing for a Massive payout. That's what generational QB talents like Patrick and Brock are worth and that's why I agree your point about the draft going more towards the skill positons in the first round.

I also agree it takes time to develop Offensive Linemen in general. But like I pointed out in the QB thread. If you think Purdy is a generational talent, you protect that talent and make his career as long as possible.

Once a head coach loses his franchise QB, he loses his job. Just look at what happened to Pete Carroll. The less hits a QB takes, I think the more his NFL career will last. Whether you design a more quick passing system where the ball gets out faster, or where the OLine is dominating the opposing DLines, as long as you reduce as much as possible the QB hits to Brock -I'll be extremely happy!

NC pulling his hair out somewhere…

in absence of NC I've come up with my own, better tiers to predict team ranks, and they center around QB / HC, in which we are tier 1, but not overall #1, that is KC. Would anyone say KC has best OL? Now if you look at Reid and Mahomes okay we start to see why they are the dynasty..