49ers Offensive Line

I don't need to read up on it lol. Martin was drafted to replace goodwin. Martin was a great center in college, that's his position. Sure he can move to guard, being maybe the best o linemen for us last year was not an accomplishment. I have my opinion you have yours.

so I guess when analysts yes plural.. say he was the best center in that years draft we should assume he is not as good as kilgore who if I'm right was a guard that learned how to play center backing up goodwin

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Disp:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
The Harbaugh/Roman niners were the first team I have ever seen consistently facing 8 or 9 guys in the box. There was a reason for this...playcalling.

So you weren't watching the Niners from 2003-2010? Gore has gone up against stacked boxes his entire career because we were so bad at passing in between when Garcia left and Harbaugh arrived.

You are wrong.

No not really...

Yes, really. Check the number of targets for Gore over his career in SF. When Harbaugh arrived his catches dropped to nearly nil. Just for fun, I'll do it for you.

Nolan/Singletary understood how to deal with a stacked box
2005--22 targets (rookie, started one game)
2006--86
2007--69
2008--66
2009--75
2010--72 (played in 11 games)
Harbaugh arrives...stacked box? Run up the middle
2011--31
2012--36
2013--27
2014--19

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Disp:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

The Harbaugh/Roman niners were the first team I have ever seen consistently facing 8 or 9 guys in the box. There was a reason for this...playcalling.

So you weren't watching the Niners from 2003-2010? Gore has gone up against stacked boxes his entire career because we were so bad at passing in between when Garcia left and Harbaugh arrived.

You are wrong.

No not really...

Yes, really. Check the number of targets for Gore over his career in SF. When Harbaugh arrived his catches dropped to nearly nil. Just for fun, I'll do it for you.

Nolan/Singletary understood how to deal with a stacked box
2005--22 targets (rookie, started one game)
2006--86
2007--69
2008--66
2009--75
2010--72 (played in 11 games)
Harbaugh arrives...stacked box? Run up the middle
2011--31
2012--36
2013--27
2014--19

So why did they pass if they weren't stacking the box ?

Originally posted by fan49:
I don't need to read up on it lol. Martin was drafted to replace goodwin. Martin was a great center in college, that's his position. Sure he can move to guard, being maybe the best o linemen for us last year was not an accomplishment. I have my opinion you have yours.

he may have been drafted to compete to replace good win but kilgore stepped up and took the job. now I would think kilgore has the heads up on that spot this off season but it is nice to know we have two young guys to battle it out. plus with martins versatility its a win win for us. it is one thing to be drafted to take someones spot,, but to actually take it is a whole other story. kilgore did the job, i think he will retain it but having martin has a back up there who can also play guard is not tragic

Originally posted by WINiner:
No not really...

You are100% wrong about this. Gore even gave an interview about how opposing teams would predict the niners play calls while stacking the box during the 2003-2010 years. I am not trying to bash but I really thought that was common knowledge. I will search for the exact interview if you need it but yes, the stacked box was so common and our play calling so predictable that the opposing teams called it every time.

For the record, I think Roman was one of the worst O Coordinators in the league. Any man that runs a reverse in the rain during the NFC Championship should go back to coaching high school. The problem is that we have ALWAYS been predictable.

*By always I mean anything post Garcia. After that was just an offensive black hole.

Originally posted by Ruixx:

Originally posted by WINiner:
No not really...

You are100% wrong about this. Gore even gave an interview about how opposing teams would predict the niners play calls while stacking the box during the 2003-2010 years. I am not trying to bash but I really thought that was common knowledge. I will search for the exact interview if you need it but yes, the stacked box was so common and our play calling so predictable that the opposing teams called it every time.

For the record, I think Roman was one of the worst O Coordinators in the league. Any man that runs a reverse in the rain during the NFC Championship should go back to coaching high school. The problem is that we have ALWAYS been predictable.

This is fact. I had dinner with David Baas and Adam Snyder (I believe they are both out of the league so I'm comfortable saying this) after the KC loss in KC when Jimmy Raye was calling plays. They said the defenders were literally pointing at the gap that Gore was headed to prior to the snap. Terrible.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Disp:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
The Harbaugh/Roman niners were the first team I have ever seen consistently facing 8 or 9 guys in the box. There was a reason for this...playcalling.

So you weren't watching the Niners from 2003-2010? Gore has gone up against stacked boxes his entire career because we were so bad at passing in between when Garcia left and Harbaugh arrived.

You are wrong.

No not really...

Yes, really. Check the number of targets for Gore over his career in SF. When Harbaugh arrived his catches dropped to nearly nil. Just for fun, I'll do it for you.

Nolan/Singletary understood how to deal with a stacked box
2005--22 targets (rookie, started one game)
2006--86
2007--69
2008--66
2009--75
2010--72 (played in 11 games)
Harbaugh arrives...stacked box? Run up the middle
2011--31
2012--36
2013--27
2014--19

So why did they pass if they weren't stacking the box ?

They stacked the box and then had Gore beat them with swing passes or other short routes. They punished the D and the D had to move out of the stacked box. All teams vary the D unless the offensive coaches decide to run up the middle against the stack...then why bother changing? Just stack and stay stacked.

Or don't you recall all the ridiculous criticism of Alex Smith's short completions?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Disp:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

The Harbaugh/Roman niners were the first team I have ever seen consistently facing 8 or 9 guys in the box. There was a reason for this...playcalling.

So you weren't watching the Niners from 2003-2010? Gore has gone up against stacked boxes his entire career because we were so bad at passing in between when Garcia left and Harbaugh arrived.

You are wrong.

No not really...

Yes, really. Check the number of targets for Gore over his career in SF. When Harbaugh arrived his catches dropped to nearly nil. Just for fun, I'll do it for you.

Nolan/Singletary understood how to deal with a stacked box
2005--22 targets (rookie, started one game)
2006--86
2007--69
2008--66
2009--75
2010--72 (played in 11 games)
Harbaugh arrives...stacked box? Run up the middle
2011--31
2012--36
2013--27
2014--19

So why did they pass if they weren't stacking the box ?

They stacked the box and then had Gore beat them with swing passes or other short routes. They punished the D and the D had to move out of the stacked box. All teams vary the D unless the offensive coaches decide to run up the middle against the stack...then why bother changing? Just stack and stay stacked.

Or don't you recall all the ridiculous criticism of Alex Smith's short completions?

Countering stacked boxes doesn't discredit that teams stacked the box against gore during that era

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by fan49:

i personally hope martin gets the nod at center. he was great in college. and kilgore was not anything special

god this again,,,, kilgore was a very very good center

Up until his injury Kilgore was playing better than everyone else on the line.

i recommend you read-up on it.

He was graded high. Kilgore will start at C.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Disp:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
The Harbaugh/Roman niners were the first team I have ever seen consistently facing 8 or 9 guys in the box. There was a reason for this...playcalling.

So you weren't watching the Niners from 2003-2010? Gore has gone up against stacked boxes his entire career because we were so bad at passing in between when Garcia left and Harbaugh arrived.

You are wrong.

No not really...

Yes, really. Check the number of targets for Gore over his career in SF. When Harbaugh arrived his catches dropped to nearly nil. Just for fun, I'll do it for you.

Nolan/Singletary understood how to deal with a stacked box
2005--22 targets (rookie, started one game)
2006--86
2007--69
2008--66
2009--75
2010--72 (played in 11 games)
Harbaugh arrives...stacked box? Run up the middle
2011--31
2012--36
2013--27
2014--19

So why did they pass if they weren't stacking the box ?

They stacked the box and then had Gore beat them with swing passes or other short routes. They punished the D and the D had to move out of the stacked box. All teams vary the D unless the offensive coaches decide to run up the middle against the stack...then why bother changing? Just stack and stay stacked.

Or don't you recall all the ridiculous criticism of Alex Smith's short completions?

Countering stacked boxes doesn't discredit that teams stacked the box against gore during that era

Countering caused teams to unstack. The percentage of the plays that defenses stacked went up dramatically during the Harbaugh years. The reason? Because they did not use the short passing game effectively to punish the D.

By the way...there were many reasons for the offensive failings over the Harbaugh years...and before. I'm not saying the stacked box was only due to Harbaugh propensity to run into it's teeth. Another reason that irked me before Harbaugh arrived is that VD is not a true TE but a homerun option. I use to cringe when seeing Alex Smith hit him in the back because he couldn't read the D and turn around to punish the blitz. VD would just continue his route as if nothing was happening around him.

There are many other issues but let's not pretend the offense was perfect if not for the QB play.

Originally posted by fan49:

so I guess when analysts yes plural.. say he was the best center in that years draft we should assume he is not as good as kilgore who if I'm right was a guard that learned how to play center backing up goodwin

Don't waste your breath. Kilgore is a webzone favorite who is HOF bound.

Personally, I think we should start Eric Heitman.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by fan49:
so I guess when analysts yes plural.. say he was the best center in that years draft we should assume he is not as good as kilgore who if I'm right was a guard that learned how to play center backing up goodwin

Don't waste your breath. Kilgore is a webzone favorite who is HOF bound.

Personally, I think we should start Eric Heitman.

Here's an idea...let them compete...sort of like a contest, like...oh, say...a training camp battle. And maybe the team can let the best guy start, rather than have a verbal contest on a website of fans...though this is a lot of fun!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by fan49:

so I guess when analysts yes plural.. say he was the best center in that years draft we should assume he is not as good as kilgore who if I'm right was a guard that learned how to play center backing up goodwin

Don't waste your breath. Kilgore is a webzone favorite who is HOF bound.

Personally, I think we should start Eric Heitman.

Here's an idea...let them compete...sort of like a contest, like...oh, say...a training camp battle. And maybe the team can let the best guy start, rather than have a verbal contest on a website of fans...though this is a lot of fun!

Agreed. It's either that or a cyber arm wrestling match.