49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Agreed. It's either that or a cyber arm wrestling match.

Originally posted by fan49:
.....Martin was a great center in college, that's his position.....

He can play all three interior positions (started 20 games at left guard and 13 games at center).


Scouting Report

Has instant-starter potential as a center or right guard but could stand to benefit from some time to be groomed.

Originally posted by DeUh:

Originally posted by fan49:
.....Martin was a great center in college, that's his position.....

He can play all three interior positions (started 20 games at left guard and 13 games at center).


Scouting Report

Has instant-starter potential as a center or right guard but could stand to benefit from some time to be groomed.

With him trimmed down so much, healthy, having some real-game experience, new coaching staff and OL leaders and the motivation and chance to win a starting spot, I can't wait to see this kid ball out!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by DeUh:

Originally posted by fan49:
.....Martin was a great center in college, that's his position.....

He can play all three interior positions (started 20 games at left guard and 13 games at center).


Scouting Report

Has instant-starter potential as a center or right guard but could stand to benefit from some time to be groomed.

With him trimmed down so much, healthy, having some real-game experience, new coaching staff and OL leaders and the motivation and chance to win a starting spot, I can't wait to see this kid ball out!

Where ever he plays he will likely be a fixture for more than a decade!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Disp:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
The Harbaugh/Roman niners were the first team I have ever seen consistently facing 8 or 9 guys in the box. There was a reason for this...playcalling.

So you weren't watching the Niners from 2003-2010? Gore has gone up against stacked boxes his entire career because we were so bad at passing in between when Garcia left and Harbaugh arrived.

You are wrong.

No not really...

Yes, really. Check the number of targets for Gore over his career in SF. When Harbaugh arrived his catches dropped to nearly nil. Just for fun, I'll do it for you.

Nolan/Singletary understood how to deal with a stacked box
2005--22 targets (rookie, started one game)
2006--86
2007--69
2008--66
2009--75
2010--72 (played in 11 games)
Harbaugh arrives...stacked box? Run up the middle
2011--31
2012--36
2013--27
2014--19

So why did they pass if they weren't stacking the box ?

They stacked the box and then had Gore beat them with swing passes or other short routes. They punished the D and the D had to move out of the stacked box. All teams vary the D unless the offensive coaches decide to run up the middle against the stack...then why bother changing? Just stack and stay stacked.

Or don't you recall all the ridiculous criticism of Alex Smith's short completions?

Countering stacked boxes doesn't discredit that teams stacked the box against gore during that era

Countering caused teams to unstack. The percentage of the plays that defenses stacked went up dramatically during the Harbaugh years. The reason? Because they did not use the short passing game effectively to punish the D.

By the way...there were many reasons for the offensive failings over the Harbaugh years...and before. I'm not saying the stacked box was only due to Harbaugh propensity to run into it's teeth. Another reason that irked me before Harbaugh arrived is that VD is not a true TE but a homerun option. I use to cringe when seeing Alex Smith hit him in the back because he couldn't read the D and turn around to punish the blitz. VD would just continue his route as if nothing was happening around him.

There are many other issues but let's not pretend the offense was perfect if not for the QB play.

Countering doesn't cause anyone to unstack..it just cause the defense to adjust. If the 49ers show run then stack the box, if they have gore wide you dot stack the box. You're not going to unstack the box in assuming gore will run in the flat

Originally posted by fan49:
so I guess when analysts yes plural.. say he was the best center in that years draft we should assume he is not as good as kilgore who if I'm right was a guard that learned how to play center backing up goodwin

He certainly wan't last season.

BTW, reading up on it wouldn't hurt!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by fan49:
so I guess when analysts yes plural.. say he was the best center in that years draft we should assume he is not as good as kilgore who if I'm right was a guard that learned how to play center backing up goodwin

Don't waste your breath. Kilgore is a webzone favorite who is HOF bound.

Personally, I think we should start Eric Heitman.

Here's an idea...let them compete...sort of like a contest, like...oh, say...a training camp battle. And maybe the team can let the best guy start, rather than have a verbal contest on a website of fans...though this is a lot of fun!

What an amazing suggestion! Seriously, something I often notice about Niners fans is they can't ever say 'two players are good'. It's always 'This one player is amazing, therefore the other is trash.' Let them duke it out, I'd rather be in a situation where two good players are vying for a spot then if we had nothing. Let's see what we got!!

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Countering doesn't cause anyone to unstack..it just cause the defense to adjust. If the 49ers show run then stack the box, if they have gore wide you dot stack the box. You're not going to unstack the box in assuming gore will run in the flat

So if you run Gore up the middle ten times in a row...it won't help to then throw a screen to Miller after a fake to Gore? Really? Making a defense adjust? Like taking a player out of the box? Come on now...were you being serious?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Countering doesn't cause anyone to unstack..it just cause the defense to adjust. If the 49ers show run then stack the box, if they have gore wide you dot stack the box. You're not going to unstack the box in assuming gore will run in the flat

So if you run Gore up the middle ten times in a row...it won't help to then throw a screen to Miller after a fake to Gore? Really? Making a defense adjust? Like taking a player out of the box? Come on now...were you being serious?

The box is still stacked before the play, unless you motion gore/FB out of the run formation.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Countering doesn't cause anyone to unstack..it just cause the defense to adjust. If the 49ers show run then stack the box, if they have gore wide you dot stack the box. You're not going to unstack the box in assuming gore will run in the flat

So if you run Gore up the middle ten times in a row...it won't help to then throw a screen to Miller after a fake to Gore? Really? Making a defense adjust? Like taking a player out of the box? Come on now...were you being serious?

The box is still stacked before the play, unless you motion gore/FB out of the run formation.

the key to over coming a stacked box is to send miller deep. at least it was last year just fake the run and pop a little pass over the middle. brodie did it all the time to gene washington,, once in a blue moon ck would do it to especially vernon. it can not be that hard but of course i forgot we were dealing with a alleged oc last year who had to make everything ultra complicated,, enabled by the former head coach

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Countering doesn't cause anyone to unstack..it just cause the defense to adjust. If the 49ers show run then stack the box, if they have gore wide you dot stack the box. You're not going to unstack the box in assuming gore will run in the flat

So if you run Gore up the middle ten times in a row...it won't help to then throw a screen to Miller after a fake to Gore? Really? Making a defense adjust? Like taking a player out of the box? Come on now...were you being serious?

The box is still stacked before the play, unless you motion gore/FB out of the run formation.

You are saying that these teams have one defensive set--stacked--and never show a different look? I just don't buy that...since it happened to the niners but not to other teams.

Edit: Now if you have a DC as stubborn as Harbaugh he might stay in the stack no matter how many yards and points the other team scores through the air. But then that would make my point.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Countering doesn't cause anyone to unstack..it just cause the defense to adjust. If the 49ers show run then stack the box, if they have gore wide you dot stack the box. You're not going to unstack the box in assuming gore will run in the flat

So if you run Gore up the middle ten times in a row...it won't help to then throw a screen to Miller after a fake to Gore? Really? Making a defense adjust? Like taking a player out of the box? Come on now...were you being serious?

The box is still stacked before the play, unless you motion gore/FB out of the run formation.

You are saying that these teams have one defensive set--stacked--and never show a different look? I just don't buy that...since it happened to the niners but not to other teams.

Edit: Now if you have a DC as stubborn as Harbaugh he might stay in the stack no matter how many yards and points the other team scores through the air. But then that would make my point.

Dude why would you back off from stacking the box allowing the run when the pass can't hurt you ?

at least the Nolan/Sing era did pass to the RB/screens to try to help their offense

guys guys guys.....

Gore telling that the opposing D was literally pointing at the lane he is about to run to is simply Gore being the typical type of U player.. he's basically saying that he's that good, regardless of how the D knows where he's going thru, that he still had the capability of gaining yards and making plays or getting that big play.,,

think nothing of it, this is the NFL, even the Vince "Wonderlick" Young with the lowest score ever coming in the NFL will tell you that if ever the defense calls and guess the offensive play (call) correct, the OL (center) will make the adjustment especially for the RB to go to the opposite direction..

again, there are even offensive system from all the way back in the 80s for which either the QB or the Center would call regarding which player blocks which defender..

" 2 - 47 BRUCE!! 2 - 47 BOSS

2 = SNAP COUNT

4 = 4th receiver runs the 7th route from their passing tree

Bruce = stay in the same CALL formation

BOSS = (Back On Strong Safety)

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Countering doesn't cause anyone to unstack..it just cause the defense to adjust. If the 49ers show run then stack the box, if they have gore wide you dot stack the box. You're not going to unstack the box in assuming gore will run in the flat

So if you run Gore up the middle ten times in a row...it won't help to then throw a screen to Miller after a fake to Gore? Really? Making a defense adjust? Like taking a player out of the box? Come on now...were you being serious?

The box is still stacked before the play, unless you motion gore/FB out of the run formation.

You are saying that these teams have one defensive set--stacked--and never show a different look? I just don't buy that...since it happened to the niners but not to other teams.

Edit: Now if you have a DC as stubborn as Harbaugh he might stay in the stack no matter how many yards and points the other team scores through the air. But then that would make my point.

Dude why would you back off from stacking the box allowing the run when the pass can't hurt you ?

at least the Nolan/Sing era did pass to the RB/screens to try to help their offense

LOL! That was my point! Good grief! When you call yourself a power running team and then emphasis power blocking over pass protection, fail to bring in effective WRs and do a horrible job calling plays by eliminating (for the most part) screans, short slants, and other plays that force the D to spread out...

You are assuming they kept running Gore into the line because they no plays in their playbook that would force the D out of the stack?

I think I will go work in my shop rather than continuing this discussion. Seems you misunderstood my point or are just extending the argument for fun. Either way, have a great day!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Countering doesn't cause anyone to unstack..it just cause the defense to adjust. If the 49ers show run then stack the box, if they have gore wide you dot stack the box. You're not going to unstack the box in assuming gore will run in the flat

So if you run Gore up the middle ten times in a row...it won't help to then throw a screen to Miller after a fake to Gore? Really? Making a defense adjust? Like taking a player out of the box? Come on now...were you being serious?

The box is still stacked before the play, unless you motion gore/FB out of the run formation.

You are saying that these teams have one defensive set--stacked--and never show a different look? I just don't buy that...since it happened to the niners but not to other teams.

Edit: Now if you have a DC as stubborn as Harbaugh he might stay in the stack no matter how many yards and points the other team scores through the air. But then that would make my point.

Dude why would you back off from stacking the box allowing the run when the pass can't hurt you ?

at least the Nolan/Sing era did pass to the RB/screens to try to help their offense

LOL! That was my point! Good grief! When you call yourself a power running team and then emphasis power blocking over pass protection, fail to bring in effective WRs and do a horrible job calling plays by eliminating (for the most part) screans, short slants, and other plays that force the D to spread out...

You are assuming they kept running Gore into the line because they no plays in their playbook that would force the D out of the stack?

I think I will go work in my shop rather than continuing this discussion. Seems you misunderstood my point or are just extending the argument for fun. Either way, have a great day!

i was saying the D is going to show/Stack the box until the offense changed it up