49ers Offensive Line

IMO, the OLine is still the BIGGEST question mark going into the season.

Injuries to Kilgore, Thomas still lingering?

Boone LG, RT???

What position will Martin Play??

Pears RT?

I know we'll get it sorted out BUT still a question in my mind.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
IMO, the OLine is still the BIGGEST question mark going into the season.

Injuries to Kilgore, Thomas still lingering?

Boone LG, RT???

What position will Martin Play??

Pears RT?

I know we'll get it sorted out BUT still a question in my mind.

Worrisome but intriguing! Agree that the only spot nailed down is LT...but that may be a good thing. They cut J Martin because he was not up to the other players on the line, which means their backups are stronger this year. With that in mind, I believe they have faith in Farrell, Looney, , Tiller, Martin, Thomas and Pears to compete for spots alongside Kilgore, Staley and Boone. Then they have the young guys--Brown, Silberman and Gottschalk.

They may even pick up a FA to add to the mix, but for now they seem to have plenty of guys to work with...just hope seven of them pick up the new ZBS quickly!

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
IMO, the OLine is still the BIGGEST question mark going into the season.

Injuries to Kilgore, Thomas still lingering?

Boone LG, RT???

What position will Martin Play??

Pears RT?

I know we'll get it sorted out BUT still a question in my mind.

After hearing that Kilgore is on PUP and Brown is on NFI, i am very concerned with the O-Line. That kind of throws everything in flux. Now Martin will get thrown into C, which i am fine with, but he was also competing for a G position...so now that position (along with the OL as a whole) has gotten thinner. So lets say Kilgore and Brown are not ready, Martin starts at C, Boone stays at LG and maybe Thomas is healthy/good enough to play RG...well then that leaves Pears as the RT which is scary and it just further depletes the depth. Who is the backup T? Is Looney now the primary backup G/C??

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
IMO, the OLine is still the BIGGEST question mark going into the season.

Injuries to Kilgore, Thomas still lingering?

Boone LG, RT???

What position will Martin Play??

Pears RT?

I know we'll get it sorted out BUT still a question in my mind.

After hearing that Kilgore is on PUP and Brown is on NFI, i am very concerned with the O-Line. That kind of throws everything in flux. Now Martin will get thrown into C, which i am fine with, but he was also competing for a G position...so now that position (along with the OL as a whole) has gotten thinner. So lets say Kilgore and Brown are not ready, Martin starts at C, Boone stays at LG and maybe Thomas is healthy/good enough to play RG...well then that leaves Pears as the RT which is scary and it just further depletes the depth. Who is the backup T? Is Looney now the primary backup G/C??

I'm pretty sure, to this point, that Pears is being looked at as the starting RT... regardless of Brown being being on NFI.

I haven't read much as to having Boone go to RT, besides the fact that fans think it's a good idea.

Pears was actually a pretty good RT under Chan Gailey's ZBS....he didn't get paid pennies (think he had something like a $3.4 million cap hit this season) so I see him playing quite a bit.

Also it's July 30th and I highly doubt Kilgore and Brown get put on the regular season PUP-list.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
IMO, the OLine is still the BIGGEST question mark going into the season.

Injuries to Kilgore, Thomas still lingering?

Boone LG, RT???

What position will Martin Play??

Pears RT?

I know we'll get it sorted out BUT still a question in my mind.

After hearing that Kilgore is on PUP and Brown is on NFI, i am very concerned with the O-Line. That kind of throws everything in flux. Now Martin will get thrown into C, which i am fine with, but he was also competing for a G position...so now that position (along with the OL as a whole) has gotten thinner. So lets say Kilgore and Brown are not ready, Martin starts at C, Boone stays at LG and maybe Thomas is healthy/good enough to play RG...well then that leaves Pears as the RT which is scary and it just further depletes the depth. Who is the backup T? Is Looney now the primary backup G/C??

I'm pretty sure, to this point, that Pears is being looked at as the starting RT... regardless of Brown being being on NFI.

I haven't read much as to having Boone go to RT, besides the fact that fans think it's a good idea.

Pears was actually a pretty good RT under Chan Gailey's ZBS....he didn't get paid pennies (think he had something like a $3.4 million cap hit this season) so I see him playing quite a bit.

Also it's July 30th and I highly doubt Kilgore and Brown get put on the regular season PUP-list.

True...i just am a little worried about a guy that 3 of my knowledgeable, die hard Bills fans buddies referred to as just slightly above J Mart. But maybe he will be a better fit for ZBS. Still leaves them pretty thin at swing tackle with Boone being really the only proven, viable option at T if something happens to Pears. As far as Kilgore, i think it is concerning he is on PUP...but yes, he may not start the season on PUP list, but then you have to start asking yourself how effective is he going to be coming off a serious leg injury and not getting the full practices.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I think it's the biggest question, but not because of talent or possible injuries.... IMHO the OL coach still has something to prove to me. He needs to show that in his first season he can get an OL to work which he hasn't done anywhere in his career to date.

First year might be difficult due to having so many changes...scheme and starters. His pass protection rankings (2nd #) look a bit better than the run numbers (1st). But so much is dependent on outside factors--HC, QB, RB...hard to evaluate. It would be like evaluating Gore but not taking into consideration the teams lack of WRs during his career. Would his numbers have been better if they'd had top flight WRs? Maybe better per carry but not necessarily as many carries. So

For what they are worth, here are the Stats from Football Outsiders. First is adjusted line yards and the second is adjusted sack rate.

TB
1996--30th/10th
1997--17th/18th
1998--6th/9th
1999--28th/22nd
2000--17th/25th
2001--27th/18th

Indy
2002--28th/2nd
2003--10th/2nd

Miami
2004--32nd/25th

Balt
2005--30th/19th
2006--21st/2nd
2007--27th/22nd

SF
2008--8th/31st
2009--32nd/26th

Wash
2010--24th/22nd
2011--10th/15th
2012--8th/23rd
2013--23rd/19th
2014--19th/31st


With Indy the year before Foerster arrived they were ranked 7th/7th...so pass pro went up but running fell. Don't have time to do more research today but it would be fun to look at the injuries to QB, RBs and WRs in reference to the rankings. A Smith was out in 2008 and they had a crazy offense so...

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
IMO, the OLine is still the BIGGEST question mark going into the season.

Injuries to Kilgore, Thomas still lingering?

Boone LG, RT???

What position will Martin Play??

Pears RT?

I know we'll get it sorted out BUT still a question in my mind.

Worrisome but intriguing! Agree that the only spot nailed down is LT...but that may be a good thing. They cut J Martin because he was not up to the other players on the line, which means their backups are stronger this year. With that in mind, I believe they have faith in Farrell, Looney, , Tiller, Martin, Thomas and Pears to compete for spots alongside Kilgore, Staley and Boone. Then they have the young guys--Brown, Silberman and Gottschalk.

They may even pick up a FA to add to the mix, but for now they seem to have plenty of guys to work with...just hope seven of them pick up the new ZBS quickly!

Agree.

VERY intriguing!!

TC can't begin fast enough for me.

Farrell seemed to do rather well at the end of last season, and Looney is serviceable. I did think Looney would get cut though.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
True...i just am a little worried about a guy that 3 of my knowledgeable, die hard Bills fans buddies referred to as just slightly above J Mart. But maybe he will be a better fit for ZBS. Still leaves them pretty thin at swing tackle with Boone being really the only proven, viable option at T if something happens to Pears. As far as Kilgore, i think it is concerning he is on PUP...but yes, he may not start the season on PUP list, but then you have to start asking yourself how effective is he going to be coming off a serious leg injury and not getting the full practices.

Yeah he graded out good in pass-protection as a RT with Gaily, but he was awful as a OG with a power blocking (he needs to hit the weight room).

Like I said it's 7/30 and the vets haven't even shown up to camp yet...there hasn't been any full practices with pads yet.

no reason to think Kilgore, Brown etc won't be able to play because they would have grabbed some by now.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
IMO, the OLine is still the BIGGEST question mark going into the season.

Injuries to Kilgore, Thomas still lingering?

Boone LG, RT???

What position will Martin Play??

Pears RT?

I know we'll get it sorted out BUT still a question in my mind.

I think it's the biggest question, but not because of talent or possible injuries.... IMHO the OL coach still has something to prove to me. He needs to show that in his first season he can get an OL to work which he hasn't done anywhere in his career to date.

I think the OLine will use a combo of Power and ZBS in the beginning until the OLine gets proficient at Zone.

Sooner the better.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
IMO, the OLine is still the BIGGEST question mark going into the season.

Injuries to Kilgore, Thomas still lingering?

Boone LG, RT???

What position will Martin Play??

Pears RT?

I know we'll get it sorted out BUT still a question in my mind.

After hearing that Kilgore is on PUP and Brown is on NFI, i am very concerned with the O-Line. That kind of throws everything in flux. Now Martin will get thrown into C, which i am fine with, but he was also competing for a G position...so now that position (along with the OL as a whole) has gotten thinner. So lets say Kilgore and Brown are not ready, Martin starts at C, Boone stays at LG and maybe Thomas is healthy/good enough to play RG...well then that leaves Pears as the RT which is scary and it just further depletes the depth. Who is the backup T? Is Looney now the primary backup G/C??

I'm pretty sure, to this point, that Pears is being looked at as the starting RT... regardless of Brown being being on NFI.

I haven't read much as to having Boone go to RT, besides the fact that fans think it's a good idea.

Pears was actually a pretty good RT under Chan Gailey's ZBS....he didn't get paid pennies (think he had something like a $3.4 million cap hit this season) so I see him playing quite a bit.

Also it's July 30th and I highly doubt Kilgore and Brown get put on the regular season PUP-list.

True...i just am a little worried about a guy that 3 of my knowledgeable, die hard Bills fans buddies referred to as just slightly above J Mart. But maybe he will be a better fit for ZBS. Still leaves them pretty thin at swing tackle with Boone being really the only proven, viable option at T if something happens to Pears. As far as Kilgore, i think it is concerning he is on PUP...but yes, he may not start the season on PUP list, but then you have to start asking yourself how effective is he going to be coming off a serious leg injury and not getting the full practices.

I'll feel a lot better when the OLine is finally set.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I think it's the biggest question, but not because of talent or possible injuries.... IMHO the OL coach still has something to prove to me. He needs to show that in his first season he can get an OL to work which he hasn't done anywhere in his career to date.

First year might be difficult due to having so many changes...scheme and starters. His pass protection rankings (2nd #) look a bit better than the run numbers (1st). But so much is dependent on outside factors--HC, QB, RB...hard to evaluate. It would be like evaluating Gore but not taking into consideration the teams lack of WRs during his career. Would his numbers have been better if they'd had top flight WRs? Maybe better per carry but not necessarily as many carries. So

For what they are worth, here are the Stats from Football Outsiders. First is adjusted line yards and the second is adjusted sack rate.

TB
1996--30th/10th
1997--17th/18th
1998--6th/9th
1999--28th/22nd
2000--17th/25th
2001--27th/18th

Indy
2002--28th/2nd
2003--10th/2nd

Miami
2004--32nd/25th

Balt
2005--30th/19th
2006--21st/2nd
2007--27th/22nd

SF
2008--8th/31st
2009--32nd/26th

Wash
2010--24th/22nd
2011--10th/15th
2012--8th/23rd
2013--23rd/19th
2014--19th/31st


With Indy the year before Foerster arrived they were ranked 7th/7th...so pass pro went up but running fell. Don't have time to do more research today but it would be fun to look at the injuries to QB, RBs and WRs in reference to the rankings. A Smith was out in 2008 and they had a crazy offense so...

Honestly, overall, if you just look at the numbers above.... It doesn't look good.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I think it's the biggest question, but not because of talent or possible injuries.... IMHO the OL coach still has something to prove to me. He needs to show that in his first season he can get an OL to work which he hasn't done anywhere in his career to date.

First year might be difficult due to having so many changes...scheme and starters. His pass protection rankings (2nd #) look a bit better than the run numbers (1st). But so much is dependent on outside factors--HC, QB, RB...hard to evaluate. It would be like evaluating Gore but not taking into consideration the teams lack of WRs during his career. Would his numbers have been better if they'd had top flight WRs? Maybe better per carry but not necessarily as many carries. So

For what they are worth, here are the Stats from Football Outsiders. First is adjusted line yards and the second is adjusted sack rate.

TB
1996--30th/10th
1997--17th/18th
1998--6th/9th
1999--28th/22nd
2000--17th/25th
2001--27th/18th

Indy
2002--28th/2nd
2003--10th/2nd

Miami
2004--32nd/25th

Balt
2005--30th/19th
2006--21st/2nd
2007--27th/22nd

SF
2008--8th/31st
2009--32nd/26th

Wash
2010--24th/22nd
2011--10th/15th
2012--8th/23rd
2013--23rd/19th
2014--19th/31st


With Indy the year before Foerster arrived they were ranked 7th/7th...so pass pro went up but running fell. Don't have time to do more research today but it would be fun to look at the injuries to QB, RBs and WRs in reference to the rankings. A Smith was out in 2008 and they had a crazy offense so...

Honestly, overall, if you just look at the numbers above.... It doesn't look good.

Context matters. In SF, his OCs were Martz (lead the league in sacks and QB hits everywhere he went) and Raye, who was so predictable as a playcaller that Gore told reporters that defenders were pointing at the correct hole right before the snap. In 2008, we had a ton of injuries on the line. Context matters. Look at the talent on those lines. He usually had pretty good to very good LTs, nd a bunch of scrubs. Context matters.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:
Honestly, overall, if you just look at the numbers above.... It doesn't look good.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Context matters. In SF, his OCs were Martz (lead the league in sacks and QB hits everywhere he went) and Raye, who was so predictable as a playcaller that Gore told reporters that defenders were pointing at the correct hole right before the snap. In 2008, we had a ton of injuries on the line. Context matters. Look at the talent on those lines. He usually had pretty good to very good LTs, nd a bunch of scrubs. Context matters.

Agree and just knowing that his 2008 year was without Smith and with Martz, in a new offense, with no WRs, and Nolan as the HC...just too many variables to judge the guy. It does raise questions that would be fun to research...maybe.

• Were his down years with pass pro due to QBs? Running QBs tend to be sacked more often.
• How did the team change when he was hired? Often a change in coaches means a new regime and a slow start.
• What type of linemen were on board when he took over? Having guys who aren't quick enough or smart enough would have an impact.
• How much does the scheme and veteran QB help the line? P Manning and Brady are just amazing at buying time and making quick decisions.

I'm so happy the team may be moving to a ZBS that my hopes are high!

Kilgore as of this year is a better center than Martin. However Martin will probably be a better center and or guard eventually. It's good that both can play center and Martin could play center and guard. If you look at it that way looks like Kilgore staley Martin and Boone are starters. We just have to have one more starter in pears at rt and then Depending where Boone plays, looks like Martin and Thomas will be fighting for the last guard position

Everyone is concerned about the OL , and include me in that list. However, the OL can be helped immeasurably by good playcalling, or let's say, NOT stupid playcalling. For example, if 9 guys are on LOS, and stay there, well, that isn't the time to call a long developing 7 or 9 step drop pass. Yet , that was exactly what HaRo did last yr. I expect to see a lot more inspired playcalling this yr, if for no other reason than JT, Geep , got to see what that kind of idiocy got us last yr. Hence, if the line isn't exactly what we want, good playcalling can sure help out there. In a way, it is coaching away from your weakness....something all great coaches have done for decades. Not us the last 3 yrs tho. HaRo had blinders on and if they called a 7 stepper with 10 guys on LOS, well , that was the playcall.

I honestly do NOT think that is going to be our problem this yr. So if playcalling takes into account what the D is doing, then even with a less than sterling OL, we should still be ok. I just don't believe the lessons to be learned the last 3 yrs of abysmal playcalling are going to be ignored. Better playcalling can aid an OL that isn't top flite. I still think our OL has a shot at being better than last yr....and if not at runblocking then certainly at pass pro. But that means the playcalls better be way improved from last yr, and that is what I am betting on.