Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

While we're pinning blame, don't forget that the QB has to call out assignments at the line.

Could be wrong, but I don't think that is the case. I think the center is calling out blocking assignments and the QB might point out players he thinks are going to blitz.

Fair enough. If you want to draw a distinction between the two roles, that's fine. Doesn't really change my point...

It might not change your point...but can anyone really call out assignments in under a second on the play clock ?

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
While we're pinning blame, don't forget that the QB has to call out assignments at the line.

Could be wrong, but I don't think that is the case. I think the center is calling out blocking assignments and the QB might point out players he thinks are going to blitz.

Fair enough. If you want to draw a distinction between the two roles, that's fine. Doesn't really change my point...

If your point was that the QB calls out blocking assignments for the line, I think you're wrong. Maybe one of our experts around here can weigh in on this.

My point is the QB has a role to play in how the pass protection develops. Thought that was obvious.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
While we're pinning blame, don't forget that the QB has to call out assignments at the line.

Could be wrong, but I don't think that is the case. I think the center is calling out blocking assignments and the QB might point out players he thinks are going to blitz.

Fair enough. If you want to draw a distinction between the two roles, that's fine. Doesn't really change my point...

It might not change your point...but can anyone really call out assignments in under a second on the play clock ?

THIS I agree with. I simply cannot understand that part of our offense.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
It might not change your point...but can anyone really call out assignments in under a second on the play clock ?

Good point!

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
My point is the QB has a role to play in how the pass protection develops. Thought that was obvious.

It's not obvious to me that the QB has a role in O-line blocking assignments. But, there is no question in my mind that Kaepernick needs to get better at pocket presence. It should help protection if linemen have a better sense of where he is behind them. I think that at times, he broke the pocket to quickly last year, but at the same time, a QB who is in a season where he's being sacked more than any QB in the league is probably going to have some trouble staying in the pocket even when he has one.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
While we're pinning blame, don't forget that the QB has to call out assignments at the line.

Could be wrong, but I don't think that is the case. I think the center is calling out blocking assignments and the QB might point out players he thinks are going to blitz.

Fair enough. If you want to draw a distinction between the two roles, that's fine. Doesn't really change my point...

It might not change your point...but can anyone really call out assignments in under a second on the play clock ?

THIS I agree with. I simply cannot understand that part of our offense.

With a little luck and some good sense that part of our offensive has left the building.

God, I hope.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
My point is the QB has a role to play in how the pass protection develops. Thought that was obvious.

It's not obvious to me that the QB has a role in O-line blocking assignments. But, there is no question in my mind that Kaepernick needs to get better at pocket presence. It should help protection if linemen have a better sense of where he is behind them. I think that at times, he broke the pocket to quickly last year, but at the same time, a QB who is in a season where he's being sacked more than any QB in the league is probably going to have some trouble staying in the pocket even when he has one.

I'm not really talking about post-snap. I'm talking about pre-snap adjustments at the line based on defensive alignments. It seems like they all do it. At least all of the good ones.

The point about the play clock is very valid, but it's misleading to imply that our guys get to the line with only one second on the clock every time. The offense often waits to snap it until the play clock is down to nothing, but that doesn't mean they have been in the huddle the entire time.

Edit: I agree with what you said, though. Kap does seem to leave the pocket early sometimes, and that is a reasonable result of taking 50something sacks in a season.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
I'm not really talking about post-snap. I'm talking about pre-snap adjustments at the line based on defensive alignments. It seems like they all do it. At least all of the good ones.

The point about the play clock is very valid, but it's misleading to imply that our guys get to the line with only one second on the clock every time. The offense often waits to snap it until the play clock is down to nothing, but that doesn't mean they have been in the huddle the entire time.

I still don't know that the QB is looking at defensive alignments with respect to line blocking assignments, but I agree that Kaepernick needs to progress at understanding defenses and that's why I was so impressed and pleased with his emphasis for working over the off season. What I think QB's are doing coming up to the line is mainly looking at where the secondary and linebackers are standing. I think there are two things going on. The QB is trying to figure out the coverage and sniff out blitzes and the center is looking at where the front is lined up and calling out assignments for the rest of the line.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
I'm not really talking about post-snap. I'm talking about pre-snap adjustments at the line based on defensive alignments. It seems like they all do it. At least all of the good ones.

The point about the play clock is very valid, but it's misleading to imply that our guys get to the line with only one second on the clock every time. The offense often waits to snap it until the play clock is down to nothing, but that doesn't mean they have been in the huddle the entire time.

I still don't know that the QB is looking at defensive alignments with respect to line blocking assignments, but I agree that Kaepernick needs to progress at understanding defenses and that's why I was so impressed and pleased with his emphasis for working over the off season. What I think QB's are doing coming up to the line is mainly looking at where the secondary and linebackers are standing. I think there are two things going on. The QB is trying to figure out the coverage and sniff out blitzes and the center is looking at where the front is lined up and calling out assignments for the rest of the line.

Interesting. So when a QB calls out the Mike or points at specific defensive players, you think he's doing it for his own purposes? Or is he announcing his read to the line?

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Interesting. So when a QB calls out the Mike or points at specific defensive players, you think he's doing it for his own purposes? Or is he announcing his read to the line?

Obviously, if he calls something out, it's not just for his own purposes. But what's the center doing when he gets up to the line, starts pointing at guys and barking out things to the rest of the linemen - I always thought that was a blocking assignment thing and I always thought that this was why teams want savvy veterans at the center position and usually don't want rookies in there.

Please don't misunderstand me here. You seem to know a lot more about the nuts and bolts of this than I do. So, I'm not really arguing about this. I'm just expressing what I've always thought was going on. I have always assumed that when a QB points out a guy close to the line like a Mike, he's telling team mates to be ready for the blitz. I've seen Kaepernick turn around and point to someone for Gore at times - I assumed he was cluing Gore in to a possible blitz. But to me, this is not quite the same thing as the center calling out blocking assignments based on where the D line is setting up.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Interesting. So when a QB calls out the Mike or points at specific defensive players, you think he's doing it for his own purposes? Or is he announcing his read to the line?

Obviously, if he calls something out, it's not just for his own purposes. But what's the center doing when he gets up to the line, starts pointing at guys and barking out things to the rest of the linemen - I always thought that was a blocking assignment thing and I always thought that this was why teams want savvy veterans at the center position and usually don't want rookies in there.

Please don't misunderstand me here. You seem to know a lot more about the nuts and bolts of this than I do. So, I'm not really arguing about this. I'm just expressing what I've always thought was going on. I have always assumed that when a QB points out a guy close to the line like a Mike, he's telling team mates to be ready for the blitz. I've seen Kaepernick turn around and point to someone for Gore at times - I assumed he was cluing Gore in to a possible blitz. But to me, this is not quite the same thing as the center calling out blocking assignments based on where the D line is setting up.

I think we're saying the same thing with different words then. Centers (and some other OLs, for that matter) are definitely involved in dictating blocking assignments at the line. QBs are also involved in a similar way; the example you provided with Kap turning to Gore is excellent, but it is not limited to RBs. My point wasn't specifically that they call out assignments, and I probably shouldn't have used that word in my initial post. Rather, all I'm saying is pretty much what you said in the second paragraph above.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
While we're pinning blame, don't forget that the QB has to call out assignments at the line.

Could be wrong, but I don't think that is the case. I think the center is calling out blocking assignments and the QB might point out players he thinks are going to blitz.

It's both - usually. A lot of times, the QB will call out the specific blocking scheme, and then the center may adjust who blocks where within that scheme.

For example: The QB may call out what some would call an "81" blocking assignment(you actually hear CK call out, "red 81!" a lot. He does that on most plays because that way, the D won't know if it's run or pass - so, he'll call out a pass pro assignment most plays. "81" blocking is what we do a lot. It's a standard strong side 6 personnel blocking scheme. The strong side tackle will take the widest man out on his side and the RB will take on a blitzing LB - up to the QB to make sure, based off looks, that the weakside backer isn't blitzing, or else he needs to call a 70 series blocking. The forward most back has a free release into the passing patter(usually Miller) and the center is available to help either way as well. The QB will usually call out the specific scheme, then the center may adjust individual assignments based off of alignments. He may also call out variances in assignment - for example: There's some blocking assignments where the end man on the LOS -a tackle for example, will block down on the man over the guard(or tackle if it's a TE in max pro) and then the inside pass protector will take whoever's coming off the edge, or, if no threat presents itself, help on the man the end man on LOS is blocking. Those variances can, at times, be determined by the center.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
I'm not really talking about post-snap. I'm talking about pre-snap adjustments at the line based on defensive alignments. It seems like they all do it. At least all of the good ones.

The point about the play clock is very valid, but it's misleading to imply that our guys get to the line with only one second on the clock every time. The offense often waits to snap it until the play clock is down to nothing, but that doesn't mean they have been in the huddle the entire time.

I still don't know that the QB is looking at defensive alignments with respect to line blocking assignments, but I agree that Kaepernick needs to progress at understanding defenses and that's why I was so impressed and pleased with his emphasis for working over the off season. What I think QB's are doing coming up to the line is mainly looking at where the secondary and linebackers are standing. I think there are two things going on. The QB is trying to figure out the coverage and sniff out blitzes and the center is looking at where the front is lined up and calling out assignments for the rest of the line.

Interesting. So when a QB calls out the Mike or points at specific defensive players, you think he's doing it for his own purposes? Or is he announcing his read to the line?

It's to determine several things. It can help identify which way the line will be sliding for some protections - some schemes call for a protection to slide away from or towards the Mike. Sometimes it's to help identify some things in the run game, as certain O-lineman are responsible for the "Mike" off the snap.

Here's a snippet on pass blocking from Bill Walsh's playbook - 1985 playbook. It's just a part of a page from a ton of pages on blocking.

Thanks to VinculumJuris and jonnydel! As usual, I've learned something more about football here at the zone.