I'm their primes, who was the better pass rusher out of these two

Originally posted by WINiner:
Aldon struggled anytime Cowboy was out or playing injured. Imo he's a bit overrated. A stud and a phenomenal player before the booze took over, but a bit overrated.

Agree to a certain extent, and I'll just add that having ahmad brooks on the other side helped. If Bosa had a healthy Dee Ford on the other side, i think he'd have had a good shot at Aldon's sack record.

Aldon the better pass rusher but Bosa the better player. Also we are not even sure Bosa has reached his prime yet. I don't think he has even reached his full potential yet. It was early last season that he said he just started learning how to get to the QB more often.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Smith helped for sure, but when Aldon was winning his 1on1 battles very well, or dominated OL at times, pushes them into the ground...That has nothing to do with Smith there.

Exactly. The people who argue that Aldon was only good because of Justin have no clue what they're talking about. The only aspect of Justin argument that makes sense is that Justin helped Aldon get more 1-on-1s. That's true. But when Aldon is 1-on-1 with the left tackle and smoking them out of their cleats, that has absolutely nothing to do with Justin Smith. And miss me with the plays where Justin grabs the left tackle and allowed Aldon to run around him. Those were a tiny, tiny portion of Aldon's success.

jUstIn HeLpd AlDon BuLLrUsh thE rIgHt TaCklE wIt TelEkaNeEzUs

New Cowboys defensive line coach Jim Tomsula coached Aldon Smith from 2011 to 2014 as the 49ers defensive line coach. In those four seasons, Smith had 44 sacks in 50 games pic.twitter.com/JnJgAqio5S

— Jon Machota (@jonmachota) April 2, 2020

The myth that Justin Smith was behind Aldon's success was concocted by people to feel better about watching the best player on the team, arguably the league, self-destruct.

"He wasn't that good anyway."

Aldrunk had this guy opposite him, still one of my fav plays of all time

https://youtu.be/DgpPz72Z4Ik

Bosa had this:

Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Aldrunk had this guy opposite him, still one of my fav plays of all time

https://youtu.be/DgpPz72Z4Ik

Bosa had this:

Shots fired at Armstead.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Smith helped for sure, but when Aldon was winning his 1on1 battles very well, or dominated OL at times, pushes them into the ground...That has nothing to do with Smith there.

Exactly. The people who argue that Aldon was only good because of Justin have no clue what they're talking about. The only aspect of Justin argument that makes sense is that Justin helped Aldon get more 1-on-1s. That's true. But when Aldon is 1-on-1 with the left tackle and smoking them out of their cleats, that has absolutely nothing to do with Justin Smith. And miss me with the plays where Justin grabs the left tackle and allowed Aldon to run around him. Those were a tiny, tiny portion of Aldon's success.

jUstIn HeLpd AlDon BuLLrUsh thE rIgHt TaCklE wIt TelEkaNeEzUs

New Cowboys defensive line coach Jim Tomsula coached Aldon Smith from 2011 to 2014 as the 49ers defensive line coach. In those four seasons, Smith had 44 sacks in 50 games pic.twitter.com/JnJgAqio5S

— Jon Machota (@jonmachota) April 2, 2020

The myth that Justin Smith was behind Aldon's success was concocted by people to feel better about watching the best player on the team, arguably the league, self-destruct.

"He wasn't that good anyway."

Ahem

https://youtu.be/DgpPz72Z4Ik

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Aldrunk had this guy opposite him, still one of my fav plays of all time

https://youtu.be/DgpPz72Z4Ik

Bosa had this:

Shots fired at Armstead.

Ford Pinto
Dee Ford
Get it

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally Fred Dean and Gary Johnson were like Joe Kleco and Mark Gastineau of the 49ers. Hope Bosa and Kinlaw will be just as effective as these guys.

Unfortunately, Dean and Johnson only played together on the 49ers for 2 seasons. Combined they had 16 sacks in those 2 years. Hardman averaged 10.8 sacks per season in his 10 years with the Niners including 18 in 1971. With Tommy Hart at the other DE they amassed 167 sacks from 1970 thru 1977. That works out to nearly 21 per season between them. Dean and Johnson had 121 between them form 1975 to 1981 when they were together in SD. That works out to about 17 per year.

It's a shame the 49ers weren't very good during most of the time the Hart and Hardman played together. They were one of the most formidable pass rushing duos in NFL history but they often get overlooked because the team struggled during much of that time. 1973-1979 were really the dark years. I'd put them in the top 10 all time but sacks weren't an official stat during much of their career.

If you go back and look at the Purple People Eaters and those great Rams teams with Deacon Jones they would each be near the top.

But getting back to the original question I would say Smith but he peaked after 2 seasons. I have to wonder how many more sacks he might have had even in his second year if he took better care of himself. He still had 19.5 sacks but he may have been hung over during some of those games. He is really one of the saddest stories in 49er history. Such talent totally wasted. He was projected as a mid to late first round pick and could have been an all time great.

Bosa was projected as a top pick and he was. To this point he's maximizing his abilities even though he's getting double teamed. I hope they can develop someone for the other side to take that pressure off him.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally Fred Dean and Gary Johnson were like Joe Kleco and Mark Gastineau of the 49ers. Hope Bosa and Kinlaw will be just as effective as these guys.

Unfortunately, Dean and Johnson only played together on the 49ers for 2 seasons. Combined they had 16 sacks in those 2 years. Hardman averaged 10.8 sacks per season in his 10 years with the Niners including 18 in 1971. With Tommy Hart at the other DE they amassed 167 sacks from 1970 thru 1977. That works out to nearly 21 per season between them. Dean and Johnson had 121 between them form 1975 to 1981 when they were together in SD. That works out to about 17 per year.

It's a shame the 49ers weren't very good during most of the time the Hart and Hardman played together. They were one of the most formidable pass rushing duos in NFL history but they often get overlooked because the team struggled during much of that time. 1973-1979 were really the dark years. I'd put them in the top 10 all time but sacks weren't an official stat during much of their career.

If you go back and look at the Purple People Eaters and those great Rams teams with Deacon Jones they would each be near the top.

But getting back to the original question I would say Smith but he peaked after 2 seasons. I have to wonder how many more sacks he might have had even in his second year if he took better care of himself. He still had 19.5 sacks but he may have been hung over during some of those games. He is really one of the saddest stories in 49er history. Such talent totally wasted. He was projected as a mid to late first round pick and could have been an all time great.

Bosa was projected as a top pick and he was. To this point he's maximizing his abilities even though he's getting double teamed. I hope they can develop someone for the other side to take that pressure off him.

POTD

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally Fred Dean and Gary Johnson were like Joe Kleco and Mark Gastineau of the 49ers. Hope Bosa and Kinlaw will be just as effective as these guys.

Unfortunately, Dean and Johnson only played together on the 49ers for 2 seasons. Combined they had 16 sacks in those 2 years. Hardman averaged 10.8 sacks per season in his 10 years with the Niners including 18 in 1971. With Tommy Hart at the other DE they amassed 167 sacks from 1970 thru 1977. That works out to nearly 21 per season between them. Dean and Johnson had 121 between them form 1975 to 1981 when they were together in SD. That works out to about 17 per year.

It's a shame the 49ers weren't very good during most of the time the Hart and Hardman played together. They were one of the most formidable pass rushing duos in NFL history but they often get overlooked because the team struggled during much of that time. 1973-1979 were really the dark years. I'd put them in the top 10 all time but sacks weren't an official stat during much of their career.

If you go back and look at the Purple People Eaters and those great Rams teams with Deacon Jones they would each be near the top.

But getting back to the original question I would say Smith but he peaked after 2 seasons. I have to wonder how many more sacks he might have had even in his second year if he took better care of himself. He still had 19.5 sacks but he may have been hung over during some of those games. He is really one of the saddest stories in 49er history. Such talent totally wasted. He was projected as a mid to late first round pick and could have been an all time great.

Bosa was projected as a top pick and he was. To this point he's maximizing his abilities even though he's getting double teamed. I hope they can develop someone for the other side to take that pressure off him.

Great points. My hope is that the continued development of Kinlaw will help Bosa and turn them into a terrifying pass rush duo like the Hart/Hardman Kleco/Gastineau legendary pairs of old.

I add Dean/Johnson pair because that whole defense was terrifying if you add Michael Carter and Dwain Board on the opposit side. It's my hope that this years DLine has that potential kind of talent.

f**kin Aldon, what a waste...

For all this talk of who Aldon had to help him, Bosa had Ford, Buckner, and AA his rookie year. Bosa can do more, but I'll take Aldon 2011-2013 over Bosa 2019-2021. With that said, Bosa will ultimately be better.

You have to take into account the defensive mates around Aldon, Justin Smith, Ray Mac, Soap, Brooks and Pat and Bo to clean things up. It was a spectacular defense. What I remember most is that nobody got behind them. Any gain, and they were immediately tackled.

Originally posted by wysiwyg:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Aldrunk had this guy opposite him, still one of my fav plays of all time

https://youtu.be/DgpPz72Z4Ik

Bosa had this:

Shots fired at Armstead.

Ford Pinto
Dee Ford
Get it

Lol boom

Bosa by far already and he hasn't even reached his prime