Jimmy Garoppolo-QB-EIU

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Then don't bother with Garoppolo.

Why?

One, because I don't want Garoppolo. Two, IMHO Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer, and even Deshaun Watson are better LONG TERM prospects than Garoppolo. so I hope that if we do trade for Garoppolo (which I hope we don't) we approach him as a bridge QB to at least keep this team respectable. And three, I simply don't want Garoppolo. I see him as fool's gold. Backup QB's coming out of NE don't have a very good track record. These are QB's drafted for their system (not that that's a bad thing). Now, unless we're adopting NE's scheme Garoppolo isn't the guy for us to spend any significant cap space behind.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Why not? He's a young QB who has the potential to be a franchise starter, he's received good coaching and was a well regarded prospect coming out of college. If they could get Garrett in the 1st and trade a 2nd plus a conditional pick for Garoppolo I'd be down with it.

IMHO (because I have to qualify all unpopular positions with that. . . ..

See, that's what's at the heart of many's go-get-Garoppolo position. Some here are so blinded by their desire to get Garrett that they're willing to overpay for the Garoppolo fool's gold. And while I know that this team will have to overpay for a few players one of those players should not be on Garoppolo. I get it, Garrett is the sexy pick around here, but it isn't the smart move given that we have drastically more pressing needs at QB. I know, I know, actually picking at a position of need also isn't a popular position around here. It gets you shouted down pretty well. What this team needs is a long term solution at this position, and you don't get those in mid and late rounds at QB. By and large you get them in the first.

What is "their system" exactly? Last I checked they run a spread offense for the most part which is exactly what Chip runs.

OLB is a really big position of need as well so the intrigue of grabbing Jimmy G. with a 2nd plus maybe a conditional pick is that we can kill 2 birds by getting a potential franchise QB with our second round pick and a difference making pass rusher with our 1st.

Ummm, you are seriously mistaken. NE does not run the check-with-me college scheme that tiers out the D that Chip runs. In fact Chip is the only coach in the NFL that runs that crap (and not for long I hope). And the OLB need is anything near the need for this team like QB is. NFL offenses have an answer for even the best edge rushers - getting the ball out fast. And who's getting that ball out? You guest it, a QB armed with decent play design by good coaches, something we don't have at this moment. OLB are sexy, but they're not winning you games. They make your D better, but that's not winning us games. The lack of a pass rush, while a real need, isn't losing us games like the QB position is. In fact, OLB isn't even in the top 3 needs of this team (QB, ILB, WR), in that order IMHO.

You can use whatever logic that fits your fancy. I'm not buying an OLB with our top pick. Spending a 2nd on the fool's gold of Garoppolo isn't a smart move, especially if Chip is still the coach. But then, for many fans ANY veteran QB will do to justify picking Garrett. Because God forbids that we actually make a pick at our biggest need with our top pick.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Because he's a FA after this yr and Tom Brady signed a extension at the beginning of the yr...so they'll do what they do all the time trade players for picks, they did the same thing with Collins and Chandler in the past yr.

It's either that or lose him in FA

I know he's a free agent. I also know that Brady thinks he's gonna play 4-5 more years but that's unrealistic. A QB that understands that system is paramount to their success. Brady might play one more year but then he's either injured or his play will decline. It doesn't make sense for them to get rid of Garappolo. It's like a Favre/Rodgers situation and it would have been like Green Bay trading Rodgers and keeping Favre.

Look guys, we have one of the worst defenses of all time. We allow about 30 points a game and almost 200 yards rushing and all everyone talks about is a quarterback. Our coaches suck, our front office sucks...but yeah, a quarterback will thrive with no talent around him and no defense. He'll turn it all around. No way we'd completely ruin him. Lol. Gotta love the logic.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

The problem is we will not win a bidding war with Clv. They have better amo. 2 1sts, 2 2nds. Are we going to offer next year's entire draft? If they want Jimmy he's there's, if they want Mitch he's there's. We just have to hope they fall in love with a qb in the draft.

Not necessarily. Their analytics program may devalue Garoppolo, because of his expected contract, and they'd offer less, like they did for Kap (not apples to apples, but hopefully the point applies). Additionally, teams often try to send players in good standing to a better scenario, like we did with Alex. Lastly, the buddy system is real. When Cassell went to KC, at least 2 teams were complaining loudly that they offered more than KC did, but that BB was hooking up his old buddy Pioli. BB and Chip go way back (If Chip's still here).

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Trading for Jimmy G would put us in the driver's seat for the draft. If our acquisition of Garoppolo scares Cleveland into going QB at #1, we get Garrett. If they pick Garrett, we get to trade down to a team desperate for the top QB in the draft. I think folks here are forgetting how lowly Goff and Wentz were regarded before the hype train started rolling after the season. Someone's gonna be worth a mess of picks.

This is all very true. Good points, sir!

This is nonsense. If the 49ers trade for Garopollo before the draft, that gives the Browns a better shot at landing Trubisky, Watson, and Kizer with their 2nd first round pick which is looking better and better. Goff was considered a top 5 pick well before the season ended.

They will have a preference. There are enough teams w/need at QB between 1 and 7 to cost them their guy, or even a shot at any of the 3, if it gets crazy. Any team can trade up, we've seen it happen from deep in the teens.

If the Browns have a strong preference at QB, they could draft Garrett and still get their QB at 2 or 3 trading up from their next first round pick or they would take him at #1 regardless of whether we trade for Garopollo. My point wasn't that the Browns are definitely going to wait until 7 to pick a QB - it was that our taking Garopollo in advance of the draft doesn't make it more likely that the Browns pass on Garrett unless he's the guy for the Browns. If he is the guy for the Browns, we aren't going to beat them in a bidding war.

If the 49ers trade for Garopollo, the only other teams in the top 9 with needs at QB are the Browns and Jets. The Bears would probably go Trubisky in that scenario and I highly doubt the Jets draft a QB at 5 especially if Trubisky is their guy after drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round last year. That leaves the Browns with their choice of Kizer or Watson at 9. The Cardinals are the only team that realistically would trade up (need a QB and are close enough to the top 8 to be willing to trade up).

If the Patriots choose not to trade Garopollo at all, it puts more pressure on the Browns to draft a QB because they'll be competing with one more team than they would be otherwise. The Browns are probably rooting for the 49ers or Bears to pull off a trade for Garopollo to give them another QB option at 7 (possibly even Trubisky).

Jags will have a new coach, and possibly a new FO structure, and that often leads to drafting a new QB. Bears are almost certain to move on from Cutler, Jets going QB one year after drafting a disappointment in the 2nd would follow a similar path to the Panthers landing Cam one year after Clausen. Besides the Cardinals jumping in front of the Browns' 2nd pick, the Bills, Redskins (unlikely event that Cousins gets away), and Texans could all get there. Shoot, LA went from 15 to 1 last year, and Tennessee at 5 would be a willing and attainable trade partner if a QB is still there.

That's 6 realistic landing spots for 3 QBs. Again, if the Browns want to control their QB choice, they'd have to go #1. If not, even at 7, they're rolling the dice that they'll miss the guy they prefer, or even all 3.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Because of competition? Wasn't Wentz just the 2nd overall pick and he was in the FCS lol. I never said give up a 1st for him, just stating if he was in this draft he's probably be at the top of the list. I'd take that if we gave up our 2nd rd pick all day.

Wentz was yes but I think you'd see the scouting results and draft hype was a lot more favorable for Wentz which is why he went as high as he did. He also got to play in the senior bowl which really helped his draft stock.

Garoppolo was highly regarded the year he came out but nobody talked about him being a potential first rounder, in fact it was a bit surprising the Pats took him when they did though it could've been more to do with the fact they still had Brady and used a 2nd round pick on a QB.

I actually value his development under Brady/Belichick a lot more than his play in college so I think that's what you're grading him on as well. if he was fresh out of school he wouldn't be graded over Trubisky, Kizer and Watson.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
One, because I don't want Garoppolo. Two, IMHO Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer, and even Deshaun Watson are better LONG TERM prospects than Garoppolo. so I hope that if we do trade for Garoppolo (which I hope we don't) we approach him as a bridge QB to at least keep this team respectable. And three, I simply don't want Garoppolo. I see him as fool's gold. Backup QB's coming out of NE don't have a very good track record. These are QB's drafted for their system (not that that's a bad thing). Now, unless we're adopting NE's scheme Garoppolo isn't the guy for us to spend any significant cap space behind.

Have you watched Jimmy G in college or during the draft process? What is their track record...Matt Cassel? Why do you compare a 7th rd pick and a backup QB at USC to a guy that was a 2nd round pick and offers all the tools you want in a starting QB?

here's some analysis from his draft profile:

"Has a very quick trigger and good wrist snap that translates to a smooth throwing motion and clean, compact delivery (no windup). Lightning release quickness. Urgent decision maker. Sells play-action. Athletic enough to slide in the pocket and buy time with his feet while keeping his eyes downfield. Good anticipation -- throws his receivers open. Can change ball speeds and drop it in a bucket. Does not take unnecessary sacks and will dump the ball. Will deliver the ball looking down the barrel of a gun. Tough-minded and poised in the pocket -- can withstand a hit and pop back up. Highly competitive. Smart, respected, vocal team leader. Very durable, experienced, four-year starter. Good football intelligence."

"This kid's got a quick release, good arm and is very athletic. Tom Brady, at his age, and Ryan Mallett's uncertain status forces this pick. This is an insurance policy for an unknown future. He's an interesting quarterback. He makes every throw. The feet and quick release are what stand out." -- Mike Mayock

Bruce Arians and others have compared him to Tony Romo (yes they went to the same college) one very important to understand is that NE offense needs a fast thinking accurate QB which is exactly what Jimmy G is.

Regardless you're entitled to you're opinion, but I'd say go watch him play before you just bundle him into the mix with whatever NE backup you thought was amazing...Jimmy G is NOT Matt Cassel at all.

Originally posted by genus49:
Wentz was yes but I think you'd see the scouting results and draft hype was a lot more favorable for Wentz which is why he went as high as he did. He also got to play in the senior bowl which really helped his draft stock.

Garoppolo was highly regarded the year he came out but nobody talked about him being a potential first rounder, in fact it was a bit surprising the Pats took him when they did though it could've been more to do with the fact they still had Brady and used a 2nd round pick on a QB.

I actually value his development under Brady/Belichick a lot more than his play in college so I think that's what you're grading him on as well. if he was fresh out of school he wouldn't be graded over Trubisky, Kizer and Watson.

That's actually not true CBS had him as the 47th overall prospect Walterfootball had a 2nd day pick on him and said they wouldn't be surprised if some team goes after him at the end of the 1st.

Jimmy G played in the senior bowl as well,"Garoppolo had a good week of practice in which he displayed accuracy, decision-making and had no issues practicing against a higher caliber of competition"-Walterfootball.

I disagree that he wouldn't just as high as those QBs.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Not necessarily. Their analytics program may devalue Garoppolo, because of his expected contract, and they'd offer less, like they did for Kap (not apples to apples, but hopefully the point applies). Additionally, teams often try to send players in good standing to a better scenario, like we did with Alex. Lastly, the buddy system is real. When Cassell went to KC, at least 2 teams were complaining loudly that they offered more than KC did, but that BB was hooking up his old buddy Pioli. BB and Chip go way back (If Chip's still here).

I said if they wanted him they'd have him. Of course if he doesn't fit their system they'll take a qb in the draft.

We're a good team now? The odds of Jimmy preferring either of us except for financial reasons which both teams can afford isn't high. Clv also has ties to NE so they can play the buddy buddy game too. I'll give you Bill and Chip are buds but I think that's wishful thinking when Clv can part with a 1st of they really wanted him. A couple slots or a 4th rounder is not going to make or break you. Clv has real ammo.

They're in the same boat as us were they're not going to be dicking around and they will have a long term Qb next year. We both made that mistake this past season. I highly doubt they'll wait on a qb because now you're stuck with whoever fell. It's either their guy at #1 or trade for Jimmy.

Originally posted by SheHateMe:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Because he's a FA after this yr and Tom Brady signed a extension at the beginning of the yr...so they'll do what they do all the time trade players for picks, they did the same thing with Collins and Chandler in the past yr.

It's either that or lose him in FA

I know he's a free agent. I also know that Brady thinks he's gonna play 4-5 more years but that's unrealistic. A QB that understands that system is paramount to their success. Brady might play one more year but then he's either injured or his play will decline. It doesn't make sense for them to get rid of Garappolo. It's like a Favre/Rodgers situation and it would have been like Green Bay trading Rodgers and keeping Favre.

The issue is he JUST signed a two yr extension and they wouldn't be able to cut bait if they really really wanted to until 2019....They made their decision on keeping Jimmy G or Tom when the extended Tom.

They can't have two QBs on the roster getting starting money and that's not even close to how the Pat run things anyway. They will just continue to draft and develop like they always do.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
One, because I don't want Garoppolo. Two, IMHO Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer, and even Deshaun Watson are better LONG TERM prospects than Garoppolo. so I hope that if we do trade for Garoppolo (which I hope we don't) we approach him as a bridge QB to at least keep this team respectable. And three, I simply don't want Garoppolo. I see him as fool's gold. Backup QB's coming out of NE don't have a very good track record. These are QB's drafted for their system (not that that's a bad thing). Now, unless we're adopting NE's scheme Garoppolo isn't the guy for us to spend any significant cap space behind.

Have you watched Jimmy G in college or during the draft process? What is their track record...Matt Cassel? Why do you compare a 7th rd pick and a backup QB at USC to a guy that was a 2nd round pick and offers all the tools you want in a starting QB?

here's some analysis from his draft profile:

"Has a very quick trigger and good wrist snap that translates to a smooth throwing motion and clean, compact delivery (no windup). Lightning release quickness. Urgent decision maker. Sells play-action. Athletic enough to slide in the pocket and buy time with his feet while keeping his eyes downfield. Good anticipation -- throws his receivers open. Can change ball speeds and drop it in a bucket. Does not take unnecessary sacks and will dump the ball. Will deliver the ball looking down the barrel of a gun. Tough-minded and poised in the pocket -- can withstand a hit and pop back up. Highly competitive. Smart, respected, vocal team leader. Very durable, experienced, four-year starter. Good football intelligence."

"This kid's got a quick release, good arm and is very athletic. Tom Brady, at his age, and Ryan Mallett's uncertain status forces this pick. This is an insurance policy for an unknown future. He's an interesting quarterback. He makes every throw. The feet and quick release are what stand out." -- Mike Mayock

Bruce Arians and others have compared him to Tony Romo (yes they went to the same college) one very important to understand is that NE offense needs a fast thinking accurate QB which is exactly what Jimmy G is.

Regardless you're entitled to you're opinion, but I'd say go watch him play before you just bundle him into the mix with whatever NE backup you thought was amazing...Jimmy G is NOT Matt Cassel at all.

"Jimmy G"

Yup, I did watch Garoppolo in practice and during the draft. And IMHO it matters little to me in this respect. As I've stated unless Chip is gonna be fired (looking doubtful), and unless we're gonna be adopting NE's scheme (even more doubtful), I don't see Garoppolo as a particularly good fit for this team, even less so Romo. Garoppolo will be little better than a bridge QB for us, certainly nothing long term. And again, I think Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer, and Deshaun Watson are better long term prospects than Garoppolo. Like I said, backups coming out of NE don't really have a very good track record, and that's not hard to understand why. They're drafting QB's to - hellow - fit their system (what a radical thought), and groom them for that scheme and system. NE QB's aren't plug-n-play QB's, including Brady. Let Cleveland overpay for him. Hue Jackson (who I still think we should have drafted) will probably get far more out of him than I think Chip will. But I don't want no part of Garoppolo.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
"Jimmy G"

Yup, I did watch Garoppolo in practice and during the draft. And IMHO it matters little to me in this respect. As I've stated unless Chip is gonna be fired (looking doubtful), and unless we're gonna be adopting NE's scheme (even more doubtful), I don't see Garoppolo as a particularly good fit for this team, even less so Romo. Garoppolo will be little better than a bridge QB for us, certainly nothing long term. And again, I think Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer, and Deshaun Watson are better long term prospects than Garoppolo. Like I said, backups coming out of NE don't really have a very good track record, and that's not hard to understand why. They're drafting QB's to - hellow - fit their system (what a radical thought), and groom them for that scheme and system. NE QB's aren't plug-n-play QB's, including Brady. Let Cleveland overpay for him. Hue Jackson (who I still think we should have drafted) will probably get far more out of him than I think Chip will. But I don't want no part of Garoppolo.

Sorry didn't want to spell out Garoppolo...What does Chip need to run his offense above all? He needs a smart accurate QB with a quick release. Those are things that JIMMY G possess regardless of system a good QB is a good QB. I think he could be even better as a WCO QB (which is some of the things they run in NE).

You know what matters less to me...what OTHER backup QBs out of NE have done vs what kind of QB he is. Like I said stop comparing Matt Cassel to Jimmy G they aren't even close to the same QB. One was a backup all through college and a 7th rd pick (who was throwing the ball to Rany Moss) and one was a 4 yr starter and a 2nd rd pick.

NO QB is a plug-n-play QB...they have to learn the system plain and simple.

I think it's ridiculous that you're forming your opinion on a player based on other QBs (really just one) and not looking at how he plays football and what his skill set is....I hope other teams think like that and we can get a QB that's devloped and ready to roll for a 2nd rd pick.

I think the other thing you have to factor in for Garoppolo is that he's slight of frame. I think people will try to defend this by citing his listed height and weight. But it was a knock on him in the run-up to the draft and it certainly has to be a concern considering he couldn't even get through two full games.

I don't think it's a deal breaker by any measure. But when you take this on top of the contract you'll inevitably have to give him -- it just makes pulling the trigger on a multiple 2nd round pick trade really hard to justify.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
"Jimmy G"

Yup, I did watch Garoppolo in practice and during the draft. And IMHO it matters little to me in this respect. As I've stated unless Chip is gonna be fired (looking doubtful), and unless we're gonna be adopting NE's scheme (even more doubtful), I don't see Garoppolo as a particularly good fit for this team, even less so Romo. Garoppolo will be little better than a bridge QB for us, certainly nothing long term. And again, I think Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer, and Deshaun Watson are better long term prospects than Garoppolo. Like I said, backups coming out of NE don't really have a very good track record, and that's not hard to understand why. They're drafting QB's to - hellow - fit their system (what a radical thought), and groom them for that scheme and system. NE QB's aren't plug-n-play QB's, including Brady. Let Cleveland overpay for him. Hue Jackson (who I still think we should have drafted) will probably get far more out of him than I think Chip will. But I don't want no part of Garoppolo.

Sorry didn't want to spell out Garoppolo...What does Chip need to run his offense above all? He needs a smart accurate QB with a quick release. Those are things that JIMMY G possess regardless of system a good QB is a good QB. I think he could be even better as a WCO QB (which is some of the things they run in NE).

You know what matters less to me...what OTHER backup QBs out of NE have done vs what kind of QB he is. Like I said stop comparing Matt Cassel to Jimmy G they aren't even close to the same QB. One was a backup all through college and a 7th rd pick (who was throwing the ball to Rany Moss) and one was a 4 yr starter and a 2nd rd pick.

NO QB is a plug-n-play QB...they have to learn the system plain and simple.

I think it's ridiculous that you're forming your opinion on a player based on other QBs (really just one) and not looking at how he plays football and what his skill set is....I hope other teams think like that and we can get a QB that's devloped and ready to roll for a 2nd rd pick.

Fine, fare enough.

But I have to say that you are plain wrong to suggest that I'm basing my opinion based on him coming from NE. I site other, more important factors, but like I said, fair enough.

. . . we can get a QB that's devloped and ready to roll for a 2nd rd pick.

That, my friend, is - respectfully - simply unrealistic. And I suspect that what's driving that thinking is the desire to get Garrett. Even Joe Montana and Tom Brady needed development. Every QB coming out of college needs to be developed for the pro game, especially these days with the spread check-with-me offenses infecting the college game. Not every QB is Andrew Luck, and those type of QB's come along about once every 20 years, and you damn sure won't get them in the 2nd round.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Fine, fare enough.

But I have to say that you are plain wrong to suggest that I'm basing my opinion based on him coming from NE. I site other, more important factors, but like I said, fair enough.

. . . we can get a QB that's devloped and ready to roll for a 2nd rd pick.

That, my friend, is - respectfully - simply unrealistic. And I suspect that what's driving that thinking is the desire to get Garrett. Even Joe Montana and Tom Brady needed development. Every QB coming out of college needs to be developed for the pro game, especially these days with the spread check-with-me offenses infecting the college game. Not every QB is Andrew Luck, and those type of QB's come along about once every 20 years, and you damn sure won't get them in the 2nd round.

I mean what else are you basing you idea on? You said he's not a fit for this system how so? Your argument is mainly based around the fact that a backup qb in NE didn't turn out good so he can't...I mean if I'm wrong then explain it a little better

I know we most likely don't get Myles, I've accepted that...but I will take Jimmy g with my 2nd rd pick vs a top 2 pick on a qb...I know qbs have to be developed what do you think he's been doing for 3 yrs behind Brady in NE?? He's more developed then any qb coming out of this draft and most qbs in college football nowadays.

we'd have a leg up on a kid that's matured and learned from one of the best qb in NFL history...we can then go BPA or trade down in the first which everyone in here seems to have a hard on over doing anyway lol.

If we can't get a trade done then go after one of the two qbs. This just gives us a more pro-ready qb and more options at the top.