Jimmy Garoppolo-QB-EIU

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Kuya:

Is there any way we can give up a 3rd or 4th round pick for him? Or is that too cheap.

Personally I doubt they will take one 2nd round pick so, in this quarterback-hungry league toeven suggest a 4th would just be a joke imo.

They say they want #2 overall, we offer a 4th, everyone laughs for a few, someone says, "Alright, your 2 this year and a conditional 3 that becomes a 2 at 3500 yards and 25 TDs next year?"

DEAL.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Rodgers and Bridgewater are the same size...

Bill doesn't train robots. Garoppolo's biggest issue with a new team wouldn't be needling a football genius to hold his hand. His problem would be getting the WRs to run their routes with the same precision they do in NE. THAT'S correctable. You just acquire good route runners and coach them up. Corey Davis and Switzer wouldn't be bad starting points.

And both fell a good 20 spots what's your point there? Both also played in power 5 conferences Jimmy didn't. I don't even know what you're basing that round jump off of. What's so different this year where he'd be a 1st rounder?

The rest is just going in circles.

Dude there's such a small sample size.. I don't think we should do it build through the draft home grown guys

Originally posted by Broseph6:

Dude there's such a small sample size.. I don't think we should do it build through the draft home grown guys

What if we wanted him in the draft. Trading for him let's us take garret with a clean conscience. I still would take a QB in the 3-5th

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Rodgers and Bridgewater are the same size...

Bill doesn't train robots. Garoppolo's biggest issue with a new team wouldn't be needling a football genius to hold his hand. His problem would be getting the WRs to run their routes with the same precision they do in NE. THAT'S correctable. You just acquire good route runners and coach them up. Corey Davis and Switzer wouldn't be bad starting points.

And both fell a good 20 spots what's your point there? Both also played in power 5 conferences Jimmy didn't. I don't even know what you're basing that round jump off of. What's so different this year where he'd be a 1st rounder?

The rest is just going in circles.

Different things are important in the league each year. I'm sure you've heard that the NFL is a copycat league, but football is universally a copycat sport. High school and college football teams have moved to spread offense and zone read because they've seen the success enjoyed by teams who pioneered those offenses. The league has watched the success of quick-hitting passing games against the dominant defenses in the league, so a QB who rapidly reads coverages and gets the ball out with a quick release would be more attractive now tan 4 years ago. Trends change.

After RG3 and Kaepernick flamed out, and considering Cam Newton's struggles this year, do you believe Vick would go as high in a re-draft? Do you think Jackson would go anywhere near #1 next year, even though he just won the Heisman? Of course not, even though he'd have been a big ticket item 4-5 years ago when everyone was drooling over dual-threat guys.

Garoppolo came out in the age of the dual threat QB and he ran a 4.97 40. Trends change.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Rodgers and Bridgewater are the same size...

Bill doesn't train robots. Garoppolo's biggest issue with a new team wouldn't be needling a football genius to hold his hand. His problem would be getting the WRs to run their routes with the same precision they do in NE. THAT'S correctable. You just acquire good route runners and coach them up. Corey Davis and Switzer wouldn't be bad starting points.

And both fell a good 20 spots what's your point there? Both also played in power 5 conferences Jimmy didn't. I don't even know what you're basing that round jump off of. What's so different this year where he'd be a 1st rounder?

The rest is just going in circles.

Different things are important in the league each year. I'm sure you've heard that the NFL is a copycat league, but football is universally a copycat sport. High school and college football teams have moved to spread offense and zone read because they've seen the success enjoyed by teams who pioneered those offenses. The league has watched the success of quick-hitting passing games against the dominant defenses in the league, so a QB who rapidly reads coverages and gets the ball out with a quick release would be more attractive now tan 4 years ago. Trends change.

After RG3 and Kaepernick flamed out, and considering Cam Newton's struggles this year, do you believe Vick would go as high in a re-draft? Do you think Jackson would go anywhere near #1 next year, even though he just won the Heisman? Of course not, even though he'd have been a big ticket item 4-5 years ago when everyone was drooling over dual-threat guys.

Garoppolo came out in the age of the dual threat QB and he ran a 4.97 40. Trends change.

Bortles was the #4 pick that year running a 4.93. Garapollo fell for the same reason QBs always fall - concerns about his size and arm strength. That hasn't changed. He also came from a small school and has alleviated concerns about that, because he has played well in limited action against much better competition in the NFL, but if an identical college prospect to Garopollo came out now, he'd still be a 2nd round or 3rd round pick.

If anything, Garapollo benefited from coming out during a weak draft class for QBs (only 5 QBs taken in the first 3 rounds and the only one good one is Derek Carr). The top QBs drafted in 2014 were:
1. Blake Bortles (#4)
2. Johnny Manziel (#22)
3. Teddy Bridgewater (#32)
4. Derek Carr (#36)
5. Garapollo (#62)
6. Logan Thomas (#120)

Concerns about dual threat QBs may have caused Manziel to fall a bit, but Garapollo was never going to sniff the first round in that draft. There was a huge dropoff after Garapollo which is probably one of the reasons the Patriots chose him at 62 rather than risk waiting or trading up in the 3rd for him. Garapollo was also thought to be a decent athlete heading into the draft - it's not like he was a statue like Peyton Manning.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Rodgers and Bridgewater are the same size...

Bill doesn't train robots. Garoppolo's biggest issue with a new team wouldn't be needling a football genius to hold his hand. His problem would be getting the WRs to run their routes with the same precision they do in NE. THAT'S correctable. You just acquire good route runners and coach them up. Corey Davis and Switzer wouldn't be bad starting points.

And both fell a good 20 spots what's your point there? Both also played in power 5 conferences Jimmy didn't. I don't even know what you're basing that round jump off of. What's so different this year where he'd be a 1st rounder?

The rest is just going in circles.

Different things are important in the league each year. I'm sure you've heard that the NFL is a copycat league, but football is universally a copycat sport. High school and college football teams have moved to spread offense and zone read because they've seen the success enjoyed by teams who pioneered those offenses. The league has watched the success of quick-hitting passing games against the dominant defenses in the league, so a QB who rapidly reads coverages and gets the ball out with a quick release would be more attractive now tan 4 years ago. Trends change.

After RG3 and Kaepernick flamed out, and considering Cam Newton's struggles this year, do you believe Vick would go as high in a re-draft? Do you think Jackson would go anywhere near #1 next year, even though he just won the Heisman? Of course not, even though he'd have been a big ticket item 4-5 years ago when everyone was drooling over dual-threat guys.

Garoppolo came out in the age of the dual threat QB and he ran a 4.97 40. Trends change.

Bortles was the #4 pick that year running a 4.93. Garapollo fell for the same reason QBs always fall - concerns about his size and arm strength. That hasn't changed. He also came from a small school and has alleviated concerns about that, because he has played well in limited action against much better competition in the NFL, but if an identical college prospect to Garopollo came out now, he'd still be a 2nd round or 3rd round pick.

If anything, Garapollo benefited from coming out during a weak draft class for QBs (only 5 QBs taken in the first 3 rounds and the only one good one is Derek Carr). The top QBs drafted in 2014 were:
1. Blake Bortles (#4)
2. Johnny Manziel (#22)
3. Teddy Bridgewater (#32)
4. Derek Carr (#36)
5. Garapollo (#62)
6. Logan Thomas (#120)

Concerns about dual threat QBs may have caused Manziel to fall a bit, but Garapollo was never going to sniff the first round in that draft. There was a huge dropoff after Garapollo which is probably one of the reasons the Patriots chose him at 62 rather than risk waiting or trading up in the 3rd for him. Garapollo was also thought to be a decent athlete heading into the draft - it's not like he was a statue like Peyton Manning.

I disagree. I think his showing in both the Shrine Game and the Senior Bowl went a long way to alleviate concerns about his level of competition well in advance of the draft. I think Manziel fell because he was an idiot, and his dual threat status lifted his draft stock considerably. Logan Thomas was another knucklehead, and he was raw enough to give you salmonella, but he went at 120 (should have been a 5th-6th rounder) because he reminded people of Kaepernick in his build. The dual threat craze affected the draft. Carr is the same size as Garappolo, as is Bridgewater. Manziel was smaller and lighter. Of the 3 1st round QBs and the 4 that went ahead of Garoppolo, only 1 fits your QB archetype.

Given history and recent trends, I think Garoppolo's skill set would be more attractive to teams drafting in 2017 than it was in 2014. Do you think Manziel would have been a first rounder in the early 2000s? Of course not. Teddy Bridgewater would have been undraftable up to the early 80s, when QBs had to have big arms. Carr should have easily been a first rounder, but he dropped because his brother was a lazy bum on a disastrous Texans team. Recent history affects draft choices, and trends change.

Jimmy G would suck on this team, in this system.

Originally posted by GMniner805:

Jimmy G would suck on this team, in this system.

He'd be a far better for Kelly's offense than Kaepernick or Gabbett.


First and foremost, above all else the offense requires precision accuracy, quick decision making and a quick release. Kaepernick gives you none of that. Gabbert lacks accuracy. Garoppolo gives you all of it.

Originally posted by GMniner805:
Jimmy G would suck on this team, in this system.

Why? Kelly's system requires quick decisions, and accurate passing. Garoppolo's quick release would only make him a better fit.


And then: how can we be certain this system will remain in 2017? I know how bad it looks to fire 3 coaches in 3 years, but a solid GM candidate might require the ability to decide on the head coach. If his vision and Kelly's don't match, we get a new coach with a new system.

Garoppolo in for Brady vs. Jets. Will play the 4th quarter.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Garoppolo in for Brady vs. Jets. Will play the 4th quarter.

they are building his resume for off-season trade

Originally posted by okdkid:
Garoppolo in for Brady vs. Jets. Will play the 4th quarter.

0 for his first 3 passes. Big time!

Why are posters here so critical of his size? He is the same height as Montana and taller than Young, Brees ...

He has a very quick release and is accurate. So he possesses the right mechanics.

Three years with the Pats. He learned from the best and was good enough to be a second round selection coming out of a small school with zero hype.

Cassell is not an appropriate comparison. That team went 16-0 with Brady the year before he played. This version of NE is not nearly as talented and he played well.

But somehow a guy's stats at Clemson or NC plus "upside" should override this?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Different things are important in the league each year. I'm sure you've heard that the NFL is a copycat league, but football is universally a copycat sport. High school and college football teams have moved to spread offense and zone read because they've seen the success enjoyed by teams who pioneered those offenses. The league has watched the success of quick-hitting passing games against the dominant defenses in the league, so a QB who rapidly reads coverages and gets the ball out with a quick release would be more attractive now tan 4 years ago. Trends change.

After RG3 and Kaepernick flamed out, and considering Cam Newton's struggles this year, do you believe Vick would go as high in a re-draft? Do you think Jackson would go anywhere near #1 next year, even though he just won the Heisman? Of course not, even though he'd have been a big ticket item 4-5 years ago when everyone was drooling over dual-threat guys.

Garoppolo came out in the age of the dual threat QB and he ran a 4.97 40. Trends change.

What's going to kill Jackson or Vick in a redraft is Griffen and Vick's durability problems. On the field results when healthy you'll find plenty of teams willing to take Vick's career but you can't play from the bench. These guys have to mold into pocket passers and with Vick and Griffen letdowns I do agree someone like that will fall but that's a whole different discussion.

Kizer went 4-8, has Kap's long release and he'll be a top 10 pick. EJ Manuel is scaring off who? That's the difference of being the prototype. People will see Cam and say if that's his ceiling we'll take that in a heartbeat.

Quick hitting qb's with decent mobility have been around since the wco it's nothing new. Garrapolo is just a Kirk Cousins/ Aaron Rodgers type prospect only from a smaller pond. Coming out of East Illinois there's no chance of him being a 1st rounder. It doesn't mean he can't succeed but he's got a 2nd round resume.