Tom Gamble, former Assistant GM

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by captveg:

IMO, when looking at the 2012 draft, one can't say "If only Baalke had picked the very best players that all 31 other teams hit on" because that's simply unrealistic. Rather, what if he would have picked just the draft average? That seems a more reasonable question, and one that would take more research. Let's ask what the team would potentially be if instead of the 0% after 4 seasons that SF has from the 2012, they hit on the average % of the 2012 draft. Anyone know what that % is? I know it's a historically poor draft, but anyone have the actual # of guys still on rosters in 2016 and guys starting in 2016?

Yeah, it's 3. If you can get three starters from any draft, you're above the NFL average. We got none in 2012 but in 2013 we got Eric Reid, Cornellius Carradine, Vance McDonald, Quinton Patton & Quinton Dial and made up for it.

Those fans thinking 2012 is the reason we're rebuilding today are lost.

Made up for it how? I hope they do but all of those players have a lot to prove.

How? They are all starters today. You disagree?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by captveg:

IMO, when looking at the 2012 draft, one can't say "If only Baalke had picked the very best players that all 31 other teams hit on" because that's simply unrealistic. Rather, what if he would have picked just the draft average? That seems a more reasonable question, and one that would take more research. Let's ask what the team would potentially be if instead of the 0% after 4 seasons that SF has from the 2012, they hit on the average % of the 2012 draft. Anyone know what that % is? I know it's a historically poor draft, but anyone have the actual # of guys still on rosters in 2016 and guys starting in 2016?

Yeah, it's 3. If you can get three starters from any draft, you're above the NFL average. We got none in 2012 but in 2013 we got Eric Reid, Cornellius Carradine, Vance McDonald, Quinton Patton & Quinton Dial and made up for it.

Those fans thinking 2012 is the reason we're rebuilding today are lost.

Made up for it how? I hope they do but all of those players have a lot to prove.

How? They are all starters today. You disagree?

Starting for the 49ers is not a high benchmark at this point. Tank has been an absolute bust thus far, McDonald has been a disappointment, the others have not contributed much. I will agree with your assessment if they contribute significantly this year.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by captveg:

IMO, when looking at the 2012 draft, one can't say "If only Baalke had picked the very best players that all 31 other teams hit on" because that's simply unrealistic. Rather, what if he would have picked just the draft average? That seems a more reasonable question, and one that would take more research. Let's ask what the team would potentially be if instead of the 0% after 4 seasons that SF has from the 2012, they hit on the average % of the 2012 draft. Anyone know what that % is? I know it's a historically poor draft, but anyone have the actual # of guys still on rosters in 2016 and guys starting in 2016?

Yeah, it's 3. If you can get three starters from any draft, you're above the NFL average. We got none in 2012 but in 2013 we got Eric Reid, Cornellius Carradine, Vance McDonald, Quinton Patton & Quinton Dial and made up for it.

Those fans thinking 2012 is the reason we're rebuilding today are lost.

Made up for it how? I hope they do but all of those players have a lot to prove.

How? They are all starters today. You disagree?

must draft all pros every round or Baalke sux.

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by captveg:

IMO, when looking at the 2012 draft, one can't say "If only Baalke had picked the very best players that all 31 other teams hit on" because that's simply unrealistic. Rather, what if he would have picked just the draft average? That seems a more reasonable question, and one that would take more research. Let's ask what the team would potentially be if instead of the 0% after 4 seasons that SF has from the 2012, they hit on the average % of the 2012 draft. Anyone know what that % is? I know it's a historically poor draft, but anyone have the actual # of guys still on rosters in 2016 and guys starting in 2016?

Yeah, it's 3. If you can get three starters from any draft, you're above the NFL average. We got none in 2012 but in 2013 we got Eric Reid, Cornellius Carradine, Vance McDonald, Quinton Patton & Quinton Dial and made up for it.

Those fans thinking 2012 is the reason we're rebuilding today are lost.

Made up for it how? I hope they do but all of those players have a lot to prove.

How? They are all starters today. You disagree?

must draft all pros every round or Baalke sux.

The roster sucked pretty bad last year.

Originally posted by leakyfausett:
Anyone seen the Tom Gamble thread.

Bueller,Bueller,Bueller,Bueller,Bueller.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by captveg:

IMO, when looking at the 2012 draft, one can't say "If only Baalke had picked the very best players that all 31 other teams hit on" because that's simply unrealistic. Rather, what if he would have picked just the draft average? That seems a more reasonable question, and one that would take more research. Let's ask what the team would potentially be if instead of the 0% after 4 seasons that SF has from the 2012, they hit on the average % of the 2012 draft. Anyone know what that % is? I know it's a historically poor draft, but anyone have the actual # of guys still on rosters in 2016 and guys starting in 2016?

Yeah, it's 3. If you can get three starters from any draft, you're above the NFL average. We got none in 2012 but in 2013 we got Eric Reid, Cornellius Carradine, Vance McDonald, Quinton Patton & Quinton Dial and made up for it.

Those fans thinking 2012 is the reason we're rebuilding today are lost.

Made up for it how? I hope they do but all of those players have a lot to prove.

How? They are all starters today. You disagree?

must draft all pros every round or Baalke sux.

The roster sucked pretty bad last year.

What does that have to do with our original conversation you butted in on?

They are still young starters with very low snap counts towards their careers save for Reid who's an above average S. We also had several ST contributors from that draft too. Shall we minimize those too?

1 bad draft did not hamper us and has nothing to do with our rebuild right now.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by captveg:

IMO, when looking at the 2012 draft, one can't say "If only Baalke had picked the very best players that all 31 other teams hit on" because that's simply unrealistic. Rather, what if he would have picked just the draft average? That seems a more reasonable question, and one that would take more research. Let's ask what the team would potentially be if instead of the 0% after 4 seasons that SF has from the 2012, they hit on the average % of the 2012 draft. Anyone know what that % is? I know it's a historically poor draft, but anyone have the actual # of guys still on rosters in 2016 and guys starting in 2016?

Yeah, it's 3. If you can get three starters from any draft, you're above the NFL average. We got none in 2012 but in 2013 we got Eric Reid, Cornellius Carradine, Vance McDonald, Quinton Patton & Quinton Dial and made up for it.

Those fans thinking 2012 is the reason we're rebuilding today are lost.

Made up for it how? I hope they do but all of those players have a lot to prove.

How? They are all starters today. You disagree?

must draft all pros every round or Baalke sux.

The roster sucked pretty bad last year.

What does that have to do with our original conversation you butted in on?

They are still young starters with very low snap counts towards their careers save for Reid who's an above average S. We also had several ST contributors from that draft too. Shall we minimize those too?

1 bad draft did not hamper us and has nothing to do with our rebuild right now.

My original reply was because I have a hard time looking at these guys and thinking they make up for the horrendous draft the year before.
The reply you just quoted was in response to the comment about "all pros with every pick".

Originally posted by NCommand:
What does that have to do with our original conversation you butted in on?

They are still young starters with very low snap counts towards their careers save for Reid who's an above average S. We also had several ST contributors from that draft too. Shall we minimize those too?

1 bad draft did not hamper us and has nothing to do with our rebuild right now.

You can't actually believe not getting a difference maker like Alshon Jeffrey, Kawann Short or even Russell Wilson in 2012 isn't hampering this team right now. s**t, even three productive starters would have put this team in a different situation than it is right now.

Drafted one pro-bowler from 2012-2015 and it's not hampering this team? Give me a break.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
My original reply was because I have a hard time looking at these guys and thinking they make up for the horrendous draft the year before.
The reply you just quoted was in response to the comment about "all pros with every pick".

Hey, even though he completely blew the 2012 draft at least we got one starter and a bunch of other borderline role players who wouldn't make a lot of other teams in the NFL!

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

What does that have to do with our original conversation you butted in on?

They are still young starters with very low snap counts towards their careers save for Reid who's an above average S. We also had several ST contributors from that draft too. Shall we minimize those too?

1 bad draft did not hamper us and has nothing to do with our rebuild right now.

You can't actually believe not getting a difference maker like Alshon Jeffrey, Kawann Short or even Russell Wilson in 2012 isn't hampering this team right now. s**t, even three productive starters would have put this team in a different situation than it is right now.

Drafted one pro-bowler from 2012-2015 and it's not hampering this team? Give me a break.

Yes because Alshon, Kawann and Wilson are still carrying their teams from the 2012 NFL Hindsight Draft where these three went #1, #2 & #3 overall and lucky for us, we had the first three picks in the draft!

Life ain't Madden bro. 31 teams passed on those guys...several times.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by NCommand:
What does that have to do with our original conversation you butted in on?

They are still young starters with very low snap counts towards their careers save for Reid who's an above average S. We also had several ST contributors from that draft too. Shall we minimize those too?

1 bad draft did not hamper us and has nothing to do with our rebuild right now.

You can't actually believe not getting a difference maker like Alshon Jeffrey, Kawann Short or even Russell Wilson in 2012 isn't hampering this team right now. s**t, even three productive starters would have put this team in a different situation than it is right now.

Drafted one pro-bowler from 2012-2015 and it's not hampering this team? Give me a break.

Yes because Alshon, Kawann and Wilson are still carrying their teams from the 2012 NFL Hindsight Draft where these three went #1, #2 & #3 overall and lucky for us, we had the first three picks in the draft!

Life ain't Madden bro. 31 teams passed on those guys...several times.

Per usual you're totally missing the point. Even having ONE of those guys would have made a huge difference in the current state of this franchise. Blowing an entire draft and not getting one productive player out of it has a ton to do with why we're in this "rebuild." It's a cause and effect situation.

For example: Baalke f**ked up picking Jenkins over Jeffrey and hasn't solved the #1 WR problem since. You think that's just a coincidence? Had he got his franchise QB in Wilson that year do you think we're still deciding between Kap and Gabbert? The list goes on. What he did in 2012 has had a detrimental ripple effect on the current state of the team, it's not that difficult.

Of course the assumption is Wilson or Jeffrey would be what they are here. A very dubious assumption.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

What does that have to do with our original conversation you butted in on?

They are still young starters with very low snap counts towards their careers save for Reid who's an above average S. We also had several ST contributors from that draft too. Shall we minimize those too?

1 bad draft did not hamper us and has nothing to do with our rebuild right now.

You can't actually believe not getting a difference maker like Alshon Jeffrey, Kawann Short or even Russell Wilson in 2012 isn't hampering this team right now. s**t, even three productive starters would have put this team in a different situation than it is right now.

Drafted one pro-bowler from 2012-2015 and it's not hampering this team? Give me a break.

Yes because Alshon, Kawann and Wilson are still carrying their teams from the 2012 NFL Hindsight Draft where these three went #1, #2 & #3 overall and lucky for us, we had the first three picks in the draft!

Life ain't Madden bro. 31 teams passed on those guys...several times.

Per usual you're totally missing the point. Even having ONE of those guys would have made a huge difference in the current state of this franchise. Blowing an entire draft and not getting one productive player out of it has a ton to do with why we're in this "rebuild." It's a cause and effect situation.

For example: Baalke f**ked up picking Jenkins over Jeffrey and hasn't solved the #1 WR problem since. You think that's just a coincidence? Had he got his franchise QB in Wilson that year do you think we're still deciding between Kap and Gabbert? The list goes on. What he did in 2012 has had a detrimental ripple effect on the current state of the team, it's not that difficult.

Nobody is denying he bombed that draft or that any player from then might help today; assuming they'd be the same player here under the exact same circumstances, albeit, unlikely. That said, unless Baalke drafted Tom Brady's clone, it still has no barring on the rebuild today. It would be just be one less need...of which all fans agree we just need a #1 WR, a hand picked QB by Kelly, another dynamic ILB and maybe another edge rusher. That's it. And we potentially have players playing right now that could erase a couple of those needs with nice seasons.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

What does that have to do with our original conversation you butted in on?

They are still young starters with very low snap counts towards their careers save for Reid who's an above average S. We also had several ST contributors from that draft too. Shall we minimize those too?

1 bad draft did not hamper us and has nothing to do with our rebuild right now.

You can't actually believe not getting a difference maker like Alshon Jeffrey, Kawann Short or even Russell Wilson in 2012 isn't hampering this team right now. s**t, even three productive starters would have put this team in a different situation than it is right now.

Drafted one pro-bowler from 2012-2015 and it's not hampering this team? Give me a break.

Yes because Alshon, Kawann and Wilson are still carrying their teams from the 2012 NFL Hindsight Draft where these three went #1, #2 & #3 overall and lucky for us, we had the first three picks in the draft!

Life ain't Madden bro. 31 teams passed on those guys...several times.

Per usual you're totally missing the point. Even having ONE of those guys would have made a huge difference in the current state of this franchise. Blowing an entire draft and not getting one productive player out of it has a ton to do with why we're in this "rebuild." It's a cause and effect situation.

For example: Baalke f**ked up picking Jenkins over Jeffrey and hasn't solved the #1 WR problem since. You think that's just a coincidence? Had he got his franchise QB in Wilson that year do you think we're still deciding between Kap and Gabbert? The list goes on. What he did in 2012 has had a detrimental ripple effect on the current state of the team, it's not that difficult.

This, it adds insult to injury too that so many people mocked Jeffrey to us. It's not like it was a crazy idea that he'd end up with us. I think we can definitely blame Baalke for missing on the Jeffrey pick, given that we were definitely drafting the position in the first or second round.

I can't possibly blame him for Wilson. At the time, kaep was clearly the QB of the future, and i don't think it would have made any sense at the time.

With that said, anyone who watched Wilson extensively in college knew he was going to be a star. The guy was just as advanced at the QB position as Andrew luck, just 6 inches shorter.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Of course the assumption is Wilson or Jeffrey would be what they are here. A very dubious assumption.

Very.