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Originally posted by fan49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's funny.
It's just a matter of time before fans move on from debate over who's worse between Kaepernick and Gabbert and who's worse between Scot, Baalke and Gamble.
Meanwhile Yorks/Marathe be like
Scot is and was way better than baalke. no comparison
they both blow end of the day
Originally posted by SadowskyMS4:
yeah mcclueless had waaaaaay better eyes for talent than baalke
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by SadowskyMS4:
yeah mcclueless had waaaaaay better eyes for talent than baalke
OH for sure his 2 yrs as GM this is who he drafted...
2008
Kentwan Balmer
Chilo Rachal
Reggie Smith
Cody Wallace
Josh Morgan
Larry Grant
2009
Micheal Crabtree
Glen Coffee
Scott McKillop
Bear Pascoe
Curtis Taylor
Ricky Jean-Francois
he sure had a eye for talent
Originally posted by SoCold:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by SadowskyMS4:
yeah mcclueless had waaaaaay better eyes for talent than baalke
OH for sure his 2 yrs as GM this is who he drafted...
2008
Kentwan Balmer
Chilo Rachal
Reggie Smith
Cody Wallace
Josh Morgan
Larry Grant
2009
Micheal Crabtree
Glen Coffee
Scott McKillop
Bear Pascoe
Curtis Taylor
Ricky Jean-Francois
he sure had a eye for talent
forgetting some years. You're putting too much stock in the GM tag they hand out in SF. Scot worked as the VP of player personnel with Mike Nolan. The team did not list a GM title from 05-07. Scot was the dude who helped build that team with Nolan.
Originally posted by SoCold:
forgetting some years. You're putting too much stock in the GM tag they hand out in SF. Scot worked as the VP of player personnel with Mike Nolan. The team did not list a GM title from 05-07. Scot was the dude who helped build that team with Nolan.
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Didn't Nolan have final say on personnel decisions?
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
As great as the roster was, I think it did have the fingerprints of Nolan, Scot, and Trent along with the rest of the scouting team to varying degrees. At different times, each was the decision maker for personnel moves. But, right now, our team blows. Baalke's latest draft looks like there could be some real building blocks for the future. More development is needed, of course. But, it is too late. He had MANY draft picks previously that he plain wasted.
Gamble was part of the team for some past successes... and failures. I think Jed will choose Gamble, because it is easy and lazy. Gamble could be a good choice. I have no idea. But, it does seem the laziest choice.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by SoCold:
forgetting some years. You're putting too much stock in the GM tag they hand out in SF. Scot worked as the VP of player personnel with Mike Nolan. The team did not list a GM title from 05-07. Scot was the dude who helped build that team with Nolan.
Nolan was the GM and HC when he was hired in 2005, sure Scotty played a role but when he become in charge completely in 2008 and 2009 it was a total s**t show. I remember there being a tweet by Nolan saying how Baalke had a look to do with bringing in talent when he was there...never mentioned McCloughan, I mean take that with a grain of salt
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/11/5/13536002/mike-nolan-trent-baalke-49ers-ownership-front-office
"Nolan would know a thing or two about Baalke because they arrived in San Francisco at the same time. Nolan was hired to be head coach and general manager in 2005. Scot McLoughan came on at the same time as Vice President of Player Personnel, a role he served in from 2005 to 2007. Baalke joined the organization in 2005 as western region scout. I don't know specifically who hired him, but my guess is it was McCloughan.
Things got messy in 2007, and in 2008, McCloughan was named general manager. There was all sorts of talk about who had "the trigger," and McCloughan's promotion to GM put him in charge of personnel, almost entirely. That same year, Baalke was promoted to director of player personnel. Baalke was later promoted to VP of player personnel when McCloughan and the 49ers "parted ways" in what was later described as due to his drinking problem."
End of the day both weren't very good (Baalke and McCloughan) at being the GM in SF.
Originally posted by SoCold:
His last two years with the 49ers he had a sever drinking problem. Prob why Jed felt betrayed and turned the keys over to Paraag ultimately.
My point was that Nolan/Scot > Trent/Paraag
The other point is that as long as Paraag is using his money ball metrics to figure out what players to draft / keep / sign / trade the team will look the same. No matter who they put the GM tag on.
Originally posted by fan49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's funny.
It's just a matter of time before fans move on from debate over who's worse between Kaepernick and Gabbert and who's worse between Scot, Baalke and Gamble.
Meanwhile Yorks/Marathe be like
Scot is and was way better than baalke. no comparison
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by SoCold:
forgetting some years. You're putting too much stock in the GM tag they hand out in SF. Scot worked as the VP of player personnel with Mike Nolan. The team did not list a GM title from 05-07. Scot was the dude who helped build that team with Nolan.
Nolan was the GM and HC when he was hired in 2005, sure Scotty played a role but when he become in charge completely in 2008 and 2009 it was a total s**t show. I remember there being a tweet by Nolan saying how Baalke had a look to do with bringing in talent when he was there...never mentioned McCloughan, I mean take that with a grain of salt
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/11/5/13536002/mike-nolan-trent-baalke-49ers-ownership-front-office
"Nolan would know a thing or two about Baalke because they arrived in San Francisco at the same time. Nolan was hired to be head coach and general manager in 2005. Scot McLoughan came on at the same time as Vice President of Player Personnel, a role he served in from 2005 to 2007. Baalke joined the organization in 2005 as western region scout. I don't know specifically who hired him, but my guess is it was McCloughan.
Things got messy in 2007, and in 2008, McCloughan was named general manager. There was all sorts of talk about who had "the trigger," and McCloughan's promotion to GM put him in charge of personnel, almost entirely. That same year, Baalke was promoted to director of player personnel. Baalke was later promoted to VP of player personnel when McCloughan and the 49ers "parted ways" in what was later described as due to his drinking problem."
End of the day both weren't very good (Baalke and McCloughan) at being the GM in SF.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by SoCold:
forgetting some years. You're putting too much stock in the GM tag they hand out in SF. Scot worked as the VP of player personnel with Mike Nolan. The team did not list a GM title from 05-07. Scot was the dude who helped build that team with Nolan.
Nolan was the GM and HC when he was hired in 2005, sure Scotty played a role but when he become in charge completely in 2008 and 2009 it was a total s**t show. I remember there being a tweet by Nolan saying how Baalke had a look to do with bringing in talent when he was there...never mentioned McCloughan, I mean take that with a grain of salt
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/11/5/13536002/mike-nolan-trent-baalke-49ers-ownership-front-office
"Nolan would know a thing or two about Baalke because they arrived in San Francisco at the same time. Nolan was hired to be head coach and general manager in 2005. Scot McLoughan came on at the same time as Vice President of Player Personnel, a role he served in from 2005 to 2007. Baalke joined the organization in 2005 as western region scout. I don't know specifically who hired him, but my guess is it was McCloughan.
Things got messy in 2007, and in 2008, McCloughan was named general manager. There was all sorts of talk about who had "the trigger," and McCloughan's promotion to GM put him in charge of personnel, almost entirely. That same year, Baalke was promoted to director of player personnel. Baalke was later promoted to VP of player personnel when McCloughan and the 49ers "parted ways" in what was later described as due to his drinking problem."
End of the day both weren't very good (Baalke and McCloughan) at being the GM in SF.
49ers Gab @49ersGab 48m48 minutes ago
Wow.. Mike Nolan just saidTrent Baalke had A LOT TO DO with the drafting me, Patrick Willis, Vernon Davis and more even though he wasn't GM https://twitter.com/49ersgab
I actually liked the combo of Baalke, Scot, Nolan and Gamble. Baalke is fantastic at finding impact players with top 10 picks, first rounders overall (front, middle and back end), finds late round gems, successful street FA's, found a couple on the offensive side but is far more accomplished on the defensive side and Nolan was extremely charismatic and could sell ice to an Eskimo and lure any FA in by any means necessary (i.e. powerpoints/helicopters); Gamble and Scot also had an eye for talent (more on offense) and all worked well together no matter who was in charge of "making the final choices." And it still took them 6 years to build.
This fan base is impatient (understandably). We've been the most injured team in the NFL since 2013 and will continue that trend in 2016. We've gone through 3 HC's now (3 different offensive AND defensive schemes) and major questions swirl around Paraag and Jed and their actual involvement in football decisions. When we had 4 "football guys" in the house, my guess is Paraag couldn't be as involved as he'd like and the Yorks stayed mostly out of it. But who knows. Either way, it took 6 years of top 10 picks and many many years of player development before we were finally in position to make a Championship run for 3 years (with the right coach). Right now, we've had 1 top ten pick to start this rebuild but this 2016 draft looks like a huge hit. The HC is a question mark.
If it was up to me, I'd keep the FO in tact and add a President of Football Ops. I'd probably also add another GM; someone with an eye for offensive talent and who's charismatic and can help draw in free agents. Get back to the 4-5 man team of "football guys" in the house. Every GM and final decision maker is going to have their own strengths and weaknesses but by working together as a collaborative group and in working diligently with the coaching staff to build a vision, I think this approach would be ideal.
Those fans who want change for the sake of just change, need to keep in mind: It will be both a York and Paraag making that decision with NO strong football guys left in the building. If that doesn't scare you, you may not be an educated fan or have any ties to 49er history under the Yorks leadership.
Reminder: Tom Gamble was here during that time as well:
A successful talent evaluator with a plethora of NFL experience, Tom Gamble returned to the 49ers as the team's senior personnel executive during the 2015 offseason after spending the previous two seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles as their vice president of player personnel.
Gamble's extensive NFL resume includes work in both college and pro scouting, contract negotiations and a stint in the coaching ranks. During his time in the league, Gamble has helped produce 12 playoff teams, including five with Indianapolis, five with Philadelphia and two with San Francisco.
In 2012, Gamble oversaw both the college and pro personnel efforts of the 49ers while working closely with general manager Trent Baalke. With assistance from Gamble, the 49ers tied for the NFL-lead with nine Pro Bowl selections and advanced to Super Bowl XLVII.
Prior to being named director of player personnel, Gamble served as the director of pro personnel for the previous seven seasons in San Francisco. In that role, Gamble monitored every NFL roster with an emphasis on scouting talent of upcoming free agents, while also maintaining continuous depth of personnel of the 49ers roster. In 2010, he was assigned additional responsibilities in collegiate scouting in order to maximize the use of his talent evaluation expertise.
Originally posted by bzborow1:Two things I would add to this discussion: (1) Tom Gamble has been involved in the same drafts as Baalke; and, (2) sometimes change for the sake of change isn't the best option. I feel like Baalke and Gamble are pretty good talent evaluators with pluses and minuses. My thought is that Chip Kelly can be Baalke's lense into unearthing offensive talent.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by bzborow1:
Two things I would add to this discussion: (1) Tom Gamble has been involved in the same drafts as Baalke; and, (2) sometimes change for the sake of change isn't the best option. I feel like Baalke and Gamble are pretty good talent evaluators with pluses and minuses. My thought is that Chip Kelly can be Baalke's lense into unearthing offensive talent.
So you think nothing should change?
