Tom Gamble, former Assistant GM

Originally posted by NCommand:

LOL. You're only looking at things superficially...most injured team in the NFL. Even with an imbecile like O'Neil, you think this defense would have been historically bad with the original projected lineup? I don't...yes, they are still missing a dominant pass rusher...and yes, Kelly's offense isn't helpful and O'Neil would be putting everyone in poor positions to be successful and is horrendous at teaching fundamentals. But talent wise, with health, it certainly had a chance to be pretty decent (to start a rebuild). But these factors are why O'Neil has got to go. With Kelly on offense, he found some parts this year as well, produced overall numbers despite far less talent than Phily, and now will finally get a top 2 pick for offense. When was the last time we had that?

But my main topic of conversation is on the FO changes and direction.

So I get the idea of a clean sweep. What you're ignoring is that Jed/Paraag will be leading that with no real football guys left in the building. They aren't exactly "connected" to the football world and in-circles. So, good luck with that.

Love ya NC your always so positive lol.

That roster day one was botten of the barrel regardless of injures. I don't see why they can't hire a football mind to find either the GM or HC? Mike shanahan has ties to the yorks?

The fact that chip has regressed, not improved since becoming a HC is a red flag...I don't want to rebuild this team to fit around chips system, it's not sustainable at the NFL level and his defenses have been piss poor since day one. This isn't college where you can rack up 50 pts a game. There's got to be adjustments and I didn't see any of that from chip especially in 2nd half of games.

Keeping people in the same roles only prolongs the inevitable and building a team around chips system isn't imo a way for this team to succeed long-term or in the short term for that matter.

Fire them all!!

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

i think its cat piss haha. but yes i agree. clean house. start new

Lol yes cat piss! and that's exactly what the FO smells like...tear up the carpets!

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Love ya NC your always so positive lol.

That roster day one was botten of the barrel regardless of injures. I don't see why they can't hire a football mind to find either the GM or HC? Mike shanahan has ties to the yorks?

The fact that chip has regressed, not improved since becoming a HC is a red flag...I don't want to rebuild this team to fit around chips system, it's not sustainable at the NFL level and his defenses have been piss poor since day one. This isn't college where you can rack up 50 pts a game. There's got to be adjustments and I didn't see any of that from chip especially in 2nd half of games.

Keeping people in the same roles only prolongs the inevitable and building a team around chips system isn't imo a way for this team to succeed long-term or in the short term for that matter.

Fire them all!!

"Off with their heads!" You crack me up...

But gotta disagree with "bottom of the barrel." If the argument is that there is no talent here, I gotta call B.S. There was supposed to be some legit talent on defense to START a rebuild (context). Sure, it still was missing a true WILL rusher, maybe a S of course, but this is why it takes years to build teams. I think there would be a ton of new HC's who would have been stoked with this lineup to start their career and lead this rebuild.

RDE: DeForest Bucker; Quinton Dial
NT: Ian Williams
LDE: Arik Armstead; Chris Jones
WILL: Ahmad Brooks; Ronald Blair
TED: Ray-Ray Armstrong; Gerald Hodges
MIKE: Navarro Bowman
SAM: Aaron Lynch; Eli Harold
RCB: Jimmie Ward; Tramaine Brock & Dontae Johnson
SLOT (S/CB): Will Redmond; Chris Davis & Keith Reaser
LCB: Rashard Robinson
HYBRID S/ILB: Jaquiski Tartt
FS: Eric Reid
SS: Antoine Bethea

The GM's job is to bring the talent in and complete the 53. He did that here. You can win with this defense (even under O'Neil).

What happens AFTER that is what raped us and is widely ignored to fit the "fire everyone" agenda; again, which is understandable. LOL

I personally felt Baalke this past off season should have locked down a pass rusher (Bruce Irvin) and once he found out about Ian, went HARD for NT Damon Harrison and also s/h drafted Denzel Perryman --- just to be clear. I don't know if any of the three were realistic options but that's what I wanted so this isn't me absolving him of blame. But let's not minimize that roster either. Vic Fangio would have no issues winning with that roster had it remained mostly healthy.

Originally posted by JR49ers1985:
hahaha are you kidding. emotions aside id rather have my hemroid be the gm of then niners then baalkee. How is he qualified at all to be a gm in this league. He has done nothing. look at his dam track record. he's a bum. Time to say good bye. And yes i would rather have lombardi then balkeee. ANYONE please.

LOL. You sound pretty emotional.

The problem with hiring from within is #1 it limits the talent pool you have to draw from, and #2 it tends to perpetuate your (losing) culture.

Moreover, the York's results with internal promotions have been pretty consistently bad. They tend to take good mid-level guys and promote them into roles for which they're unsuited. Mike Singletary? Good position coach and an asset to the team... but completely unfit to be a Head Coach in the NFL. Trent Baalke? Good scout and a quality contributor to the personnel department... but out of his depth as a GM. Jim Tomsula? Outstanding position coach... but utterly unqualified to be a HC in the NFL. Each of these promotions set the team back for years. In each case, they actually hurt themselves twice with the promotion. They not only hired the wrong man for the job, but they lost a good mid-level performer in the process.

You can't let the fear of the unknown tie you to the failures of the past.

Originally posted by Lifer:
The problem with hiring from within is #1 it limits the talent pool you have to draw from, and #2 it tends to perpetuate your (losing) culture.

Moreover, the York's results with internal promotions have been pretty consistently bad. They tend to take good mid-level guys and promote them into roles for which they're unsuited. Mike Singletary? Good position coach and an asset to the team... but completely unfit to be a Head Coach in the NFL. Trent Baalke? Good scout and a quality contributor to the personnel department... but out of his depth as a GM. Jim Tomsula? Outstanding position coach... but utterly unqualified to be a HC in the NFL. Each of these promotions set the team back for years. In each case, they actually hurt themselves twice with the promotion. They not only hired the wrong man for the job, but they lost a good mid-level performer in the process.

You can't let the fear of the unknown tie you to the failures of the past.

Really nice post and perspective!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by JR49ers1985:
hahaha are you kidding. emotions aside id rather have my hemroid be the gm of then niners then baalkee. How is he qualified at all to be a gm in this league. He has done nothing. look at his dam track record. he's a bum. Time to say good bye. And yes i would rather have lombardi then balkeee. ANYONE please.

LOL. You sound pretty emotional.

lol i know was trying to be funny.

Originally posted by JR49ers1985:
lol i know was trying to be funny.

You did make me laugh!

Aaron Erickson wrote an excellent article on both sides of the Baalke argument. This portion captured my thoughts exactly. I highly recommend reading both before the announcement on Monday.

WRAP UP

Trent Baalke has not been a perfect general manager, and a couple of his drafts have been downright awful. He has generally found good defensive talent in the draft, he's built an effective offensive line, and he has consistently and shrewdly found good value in free agency. His trades nearly always work out in the 49ers favor, because he is disciplined enough to kill trades that don't offer at least fair value. He needs help to find effective players at quarterback and wide receiver, but he's managed to field decent starters along the rest of the roster. Trent Baalke is neither the best GM in the league, nor is he the unmitigated disaster that many 49ers fans perceive him as. While the 49ers record over the last two years and Baalke's failure to provide enough talent at QB and WR are justification enough to fire him, the Yorks cannot afford to fire him unless they are certain they can replace him with a better candidate. There can be very little confidence that the Yorks are actually able to do that, as they are just as likely to fail at identifying the right candidate as they are to fail in attracting any qualified candidates they may seek. The Yorks cannot afford to fire Baalke until they rehab their own tarnished image enough to attract a better replacement.

I'm fully aware that this conclusion is unlikely to be popular with most fans. Feel free to sound off in the comments.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1636-firing-trent-baalke-part-two-case-keeping/

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by pickle:

I do believe Baalke must go but Gamble can stay as GM. There needs someone above Gamble that can implement the culture of winning that is necessary. It can't be Jed nor anyone already in the building, but it can be someone from outside with a history of molding a winning franchise (Ernie Accorsi type) or from Niner's past history--Steve Young?

Ronnie Lott. There was a guy who understood winning.

That would be awesome. He is really snart, engaging, inspiring and he has has andrive to succeed that could infect the whole organization.

Edit: My gut tells me Lott would fire or reassign Gamble and start fresh at GM with another outsider.

Originally posted by NCommand:

"Off with their heads!" You crack me up...

But gotta disagree with "bottom of the barrel." If the argument is that there is no talent here, I gotta call B.S. There was supposed to be some legit talent on defense to START a rebuild (context). Sure, it still was missing a true WILL rusher, maybe a S of course, but this is why it takes years to build teams. I think there would be a ton of new HC's who would have been stoked with this lineup to start their career and lead this rebuild.

RDE: DeForest Bucker; Quinton Dial
NT: Ian Williams
LDE: Arik Armstead; Chris Jones
WILL: Ahmad Brooks; Ronald Blair
TED: Ray-Ray Armstrong; Gerald Hodges
MIKE: Navarro Bowman
SAM: Aaron Lynch; Eli Harold
RCB: Jimmie Ward; Tramaine Brock & Dontae Johnson
SLOT (S/CB): Will Redmond; Chris Davis & Keith Reaser
LCB: Rashard Robinson
HYBRID S/ILB: Jaquiski Tartt
FS: Eric Reid
SS: Antoine Bethea

The GM's job is to bring the talent in and complete the 53. He did that here. You can win with this defense (even under O'Neil).

What happens AFTER that is what raped us and is widely ignored to fit the "fire everyone" agenda; again, which is understandable. LOL

I personally felt Baalke this past off season should have locked down a pass rusher (Bruce Irvin) and once he found out about Ian, went HARD for NT Damon Harrison and also s/h drafted Denzel Perryman --- just to be clear. I don't know if any of the three were realistic options but that's what I wanted so this isn't me absolving him of blame. But let's not minimize that roster either. Vic Fangio would have no issues winning with that roster had it remained mostly healthy.

You know I've been a baalke supporter for a while and believed in the process...but I'm not seeing it and it's gotten worse not better, in the NFL your job is based off wins and loses.

You're throw out all the names above but most are just "what if"players at this point...all young players with upside (which is great) but there are no solid vets in there and imo he had to do something in FA and failed yet again. I have no idea what everyone deal with Ray Ray is, he's done what in the league? Its all based around possibilities, but no real proven winners in the bunch ( outside of Bow and Reid IMO).

Even when we have most of are starters the defense was horrible...that s**t shouldn't happen when you draft defense in the 1st 4 yrs in a row.

I won't even start with most of his offensive picks which have been for the most par sub par (and you know I'm being nice). These past couple drafts have been stacked with play makers and who do we have to show for? Hyde that's about it (Vance is other upside guy).

How many pro bowlers has he drafted? We've had more drafted picks than any team most yrs and have what 3 or 4 pro bowlers from baalke in 6 yrs?

As far a chip goes do you truthly believe his system is something to build our franchise around? Do you think is a sustainable scheme to have a SB team? I just don't see it. The defense will and has always suffered under him and we aren't gonna throw up 30+ pts every week.

So yes off with their heads every damn one! Let's get a real system in place and some fresh ideas on how to run a organization because it all stinks right now.

Originally posted by Lifer:
The problem with hiring from within is #1 it limits the talent pool you have to draw from, and #2 it tends to perpetuate your (losing) culture.

Moreover, the York's results with internal promotions have been pretty consistently bad. They tend to take good mid-level guys and promote them into roles for which they're unsuited. Mike Singletary? Good position coach and an asset to the team... but completely unfit to be a Head Coach in the NFL. Trent Baalke? Good scout and a quality contributor to the personnel department... but out of his depth as a GM. Jim Tomsula? Outstanding position coach... but utterly unqualified to be a HC in the NFL. Each of these promotions set the team back for years. In each case, they actually hurt themselves twice with the promotion. They not only hired the wrong man for the job, but they lost a good mid-level performer in the process.

You can't let the fear of the unknown tie you to the failures of the past.

Inbreeding?

In improving the breed, one must always be on the lookout to go outside the current gene pool to add new and helpful characteristics. Jed didn't study biology. He studies business.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Aaron Erickson wrote an excellent article on both sides of the Baalke argument. This portion captured my thoughts exactly. I highly recommend reading both before the announcement on Monday.

WRAP UP

Trent Baalke has not been a perfect general manager, and a couple of his drafts have been downright awful. He has generally found good defensive talent in the draft, he's built an effective offensive line, and he has consistently and shrewdly found good value in free agency. His trades nearly always work out in the 49ers favor, because he is disciplined enough to kill trades that don't offer at least fair value. He needs help to find effective players at quarterback and wide receiver, but he's managed to field decent starters along the rest of the roster. Trent Baalke is neither the best GM in the league, nor is he the unmitigated disaster that many 49ers fans perceive him as. While the 49ers record over the last two years and Baalke's failure to provide enough talent at QB and WR are justification enough to fire him, the Yorks cannot afford to fire him unless they are certain they can replace him with a better candidate. There can be very little confidence that the Yorks are actually able to do that, as they are just as likely to fail at identifying the right candidate as they are to fail in attracting any qualified candidates they may seek. The Yorks cannot afford to fire Baalke until they rehab their own tarnished image enough to attract a better replacement.

I'm fully aware that this conclusion is unlikely to be popular with most fans. Feel free to sound off in the comments.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1636-firing-trent-baalke-part-two-case-keeping/

Originally posted by McClusky:

LMAO! You're gonna have this on rapid fire soon!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by McClusky:

LMAO! You're gonna have this on rapid fire soon!

Pretty much, I've said about all I can about Baalke. If he doesn't get fired, I really think Charles Heston is the only way to convey my thoughts.