9ersLiferInChicago 2017 Mock

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Ok, show me where I made that argument!

You missed the point...

Kuechly and Willis were better prospects at LB than Foster and neither of them went top 2. Why should Foster?

So!! Those were different drafts. I think its foolish, asinine to conclude that because Willis or Kuechly didn't go #2 no other ILB should. Foster can go #2 because he's a top 5 talent. In THIS draft there aren't many players better than Foster. And please, that don't mean that I think Willis or Kuechly weren't worthy of #2 picks. So save that before that comes out.

Originally posted by DRnSFw:
naw son, try again

Hey daughter, you thought of that all by yourself?

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I honestly don't think the injury is that big of a deal. In any event he's not getting out the top 7 or so. And just where do you think I envision us playing him. While he's not Bowman he's miles ahead of any other LB we have on the roster. True, Bowman is the Mike. But in ANY 4-3 Foster can play all three spots - the SAM, WILL, or MIKE. But I get it, Garrett is most fans man around here and I'm just not on that wagon. So I'm open for all sorts of criticism. People throw around trading back as if trade partners grow on trees. I just don't think people are considering that we may not be able to find a trading partner. And if Garrett isn't there, like I doubt he'll be, then we'll have to make that pick. And in my mind Foster is a top 5 talent. So if we cannot trade back a few spots to get him I say we pull the trigger on him at 2.

As for Watson, I honestly don't think he's gonna be there, but I lately I've been influenced by many draft boards having him as a late 1st early 2nd, though I think he's a top ten guy. But as I stated in the mock I' good with Kizer or Mahomes at that spot if he is gone. In this down QB draft I cannot imagine all 4 QB's taken by our 2nd pick.

I fully aware of Kpassagnon's weight, which is why I said ". . almost . . . ", so please, read the whole thing and try not to get caught up on minor ideas. The guys is freakishly fast and sudden, so I was kind of wondering out loud how a guy that big and fast would look coming off the edge like that. That's a scary thought for a QB. But it's not a pick I envision for the Elephant (I won't say Leo ), I know better than that. I see him as a classic 4-3 DE who can be moved all over the D-line, demand double teams, and hurry the QB.

I mean if you're kinda "influenced" by mocks your gonna see Foster is failing all over the place...I think he's a good player, but I don't think he's in the same realm as Willis coming out of college. Foster was untouched a lot and free to roam around because of that DL. I'm sure the injury isn't serious but none the less we're talking about the 2nd overall pick not the 10th....injury/red flag HAVE to be taken into account. I get it he could play any of the roles, but I think the Mike/Will spots are kinda taken and the 2nd overall pick for the SAM?

Like I said he's your boy and who I've seen you talking up since day one, so I'm not gonna get in some huge debate...your mock

I don't see Kpassagnon playing the Elephant role at all though (I know you were just talking out loud)...imo we already got two 6-7 290 DE in buck/AA. That's why I've been on the Thomas bandwagon he's faster, strong, and more athletic than any other DE in this draft outside of Myles. He's got a better possibly of being an edge rusher compared to Tanoh Kpassagnon

thanks for the mock! we will find out soon enough

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
1. ILB – Reuben Foster, 6-1, 240lbs
2. QB – Deshaun Watson, Clemson, 6-2, 221lbs
3. WR – JuJu Smith-Schuster, USC, 6-2, 220lbs
4. DE - Tanoh Kpassagnon, Villanova, 6-7, 289lbs
4. FS - John Johnson, Boston College, 6-1, 205lbs
5. OT - Justin Senior, Mississippi State, 6-5, 331lbs
5. RB - Elijah McGuire, UL Lafayette, 5-10, 214lbs
6. TE – Michael Roberts, Toledo, 6-4, 270lbs
6. WR - Jonathan "Bug" Howard, North Carolina, 6-4, 221lbs
7. ILB/SS - Ben Boulware, Clemson, 6-0, 238lbs

Thoughts? . . . . . . .

From pick 2-10, one could make an argument for every one of these players and Foster is no different. Foster was one of the very first players we interviewed/worked with too. In terms of value, none of the projected players at #2 is "worth it." Sure, ideally, we'd like a trade back to acquire another player where the draft is strong from #15-4th round but sometimes, if you don't get the right deal, just stick to your board and Foster could be high on their board. What this draft does is target team needs big time.

By adding Foster, this now allows us to move Bowman to the SAM and play more down hill and through traffic where he's best at. Foster can play more lateral and down hill as well so with Bowman - Foster - Smith, you have a nice LB group to compliment the DL. With only 3 LB's now, these players arr critical to the defense and must be rangy and explosive.

I'm not a fan of Watson or any of the spread QB's TBH for this WCO but again, we're not in any hurry here so if Kyle thinks he has all the traits and can develop him over the next 3 years which would include a red shirt, sure, go for it. Who would argue with his choice of a QB?

JuJu gives us that prototypical ZWR which then allows Garcon to play X and Kerley, the Y. That's terrific!

Edge rushers, edge rushers, edge rushers. That is what this defense needs to make it all work. We need at least 3 of them and 4 would be ideal, rushing from both end spots, the SAM and one interior pass rusher with lots of rotation. That's how this defense was designed by Seifert. Typically, these players are smaller (250-260), quicker, explosive and have played on the edge their entire careers. If you feel Kpassagnon has that ability, cool.

Good move with Johnson as Reid is a FA next year and we don't know if Tartt will fulfill the Chancellor role at SS in the box and Ward, the Earl role.

No doubt we need depth at T and ones that are athletic and mobile and can handle the zone stretch runs. Strong seems to be your target here.

In this offense, you better be able to run inside, in zone stretch (patience), pass protect, rotate and catch out of the backfield and make players miss in the open field. McGuire checks one of those needs.

By the time you get into the 5th round on, you're looking for role players and Roberts, Howard & Boulware all have potential there and could also help on ST.

Overall, nice draft and this draft certainly hits on key needs esp. at the top of the draft.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
1. ILB – Reuben Foster, 6-1, 240lbs
2. QB – Deshaun Watson, Clemson, 6-2, 221lbs
3. WR – JuJu Smith-Schuster, USC, 6-2, 220lbs
4. DE - Tanoh Kpassagnon, Villanova, 6-7, 289lbs
4. FS - John Johnson, Boston College, 6-1, 205lbs
5. OT - Justin Senior, Mississippi State, 6-5, 331lbs
5. RB - Elijah McGuire, UL Lafayette, 5-10, 214lbs
6. TE – Michael Roberts, Toledo, 6-4, 270lbs
6. WR - Jonathan "Bug" Howard, North Carolina, 6-4, 221lbs
7. ILB/SS - Ben Boulware, Clemson, 6-0, 238lbs

Thoughts? . . . . . . .

From pick 2-10, one could make an argument for every one of these players and Foster is no different. Foster was one of the very first players we interviewed/worked with too. In terms of value, none of the projected players at #2 is "worth it." Sure, ideally, we'd like a trade back to acquire another player where the draft is strong from #15-4th round but sometimes, if you don't get the right deal, just stick to your board and Foster could be high on their board. What this draft does is target team needs big time.

By adding Foster, this now allows us to move Bowman to the SAM and play more down hill and through traffic where he's best at. Foster can play more lateral and down hill as well so with Bowman - Foster - Smith, you have a nice LB group to compliment the DL. With only 3 LB's now, these players arr critical to the defense and must be rangy and explosive.

I'm not a fan of Watson or any of the spread QB's TBH for this WCO but again, we're not in any hurry here so if Kyle thinks he has all the traits and can develop him over the next 3 years which would include a red shirt, sure, go for it. Who would argue with his choice of a QB?

JuJu gives us that prototypical ZWR which then allows Garcon to play X and Kerley, the Y. That's terrific!

Edge rushers, edge rushers, edge rushers. That is what this defense needs to make it all work. We need at least 3 of them and 4 would be ideal, rushing from both end spots, the SAM and one interior pass rusher with lots of rotation. That's how this defense was designed by Seifert. Typically, these players are smaller (250-260), quicker, explosive and have played on the edge their entire careers. If you feel Kpassagnon has that ability, cool.

Good move with Johnson as Reid is a FA next year and we don't know if Tartt will fulfill the Chancellor role at SS in the box and Ward, the Earl role.

No doubt we need depth at T and ones that are athletic and mobile and can handle the zone stretch runs. Strong seems to be your target here.

In this offense, you better be able to run inside, in zone stretch (patience), pass protect, rotate and catch out of the backfield and make players miss in the open field. McGuire checks one of those needs.

By the time you get into the 5th round on, you're looking for role players and Roberts, Howard & Boulware all have potential there and could also help on ST.

Overall, nice draft and this draft certainly hits on key needs esp. at the top of the draft.

Thanx bro.

About edge rushers: I honestly don't think our cupboard isn't exactly bare of passrush talent. What's hurt this team in that respect is poor coaching choices, injuries, and scheme. Mangini's scheme was just too complicated. Guys were simply thinking too much which caused them to be out of position way too much. I think the hiring of Chip Kelly actually ran off better DC choices due to his scheme, which lead to hiring Jim O'Neil, who's scheme appeared to have no purpose to it. I re-watched a lot of games and it seemed that the play-to-play play-calling were lets-try-this guesses. I've been coaching a long time and I couldn't t really nail down just where O'Neil's play-calling was going. Aside from putting Ward at CB (which I think he should remain) his handling of the defense was simply atrocious. On top of that this team suffered so many injuries that special teams players were starting most of the season. We had do many injuries I think I even had a missed call from Baalke acquiring about my availability. Looking at Saleh's coaching history I have no doubt that the scheme and playcalling will be much better and the pass rushing will improve.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Thanx bro.

About edge rushers: I honestly don't think our cupboard isn't exactly bare of passrush talent. What's hurt this team in that respect is poor coaching choices, injuries, and scheme. Mangini's scheme was just too complicated. Guys were simply thinking too much which caused them to be out of position way too much. I think the hiring of Chip Kelly actually ran off better DC choices due to his scheme, which lead to hiring Jim O'Neil, who's scheme appeared to have no purpose to it. I re-watched a lot of games and it seemed that the play-to-play play-calling were lets-try-this guesses. I've been coaching a long time and I couldn't t really nail down just where O'Neil's play-calling was going. Aside from putting Ward at CB (which I think he should remain) his handling of the defense was simply atrocious. On top of that this team suffered so many injuries that special teams players were starting most of the season. We had do many injuries I think I even had a missed call from Baalke acquiring about my availability. Looking at Saleh's coaching history I have no doubt that the scheme and playcalling will be much better and the pass rushing will improve.

No question on the scheme changes, play calling, personnel choices and ripple effect of so many injuries. But in reviewing Seifert's defense and Seattles (two top 5 defenses in this scheme), there is no question, we need edge rushers to really make this work esp. if we'll be in nickel/dime as much as predicted. And we need fresh rotation. Let's review what I call the "Front 5."

LDE/5T: DeForest Bucker; Chris Jones & Zach Moore --- Buckner is going to get you 6-8 sacks a year and that's perfectly legit for how this position was originally drawn up...much of what he'll do is similar to the SAM in out 3-4...run stuff first en route to the QB vs. pin-your-ears-back and just get after ther QB (Aldon Smith at the WILL).
NT/1T: Earl Mitchell; Quinton Dial & Mike Purcell --- Same concept here. His primary responsibility will be 2-gapping here freeing up the edges, LB's and 3T. Any QB pressure from this spot is a bonus.
RDT/3T: Arik Armstead; Ronald Blair --- I'm curious to see how they'll use Armstead. He was a pure 2-gapper at Oregon but since coming here, we've mostly just been rushing him up field. If he proves stout against the run focusing on just one gap now, Blair might be able to give you additional pass rush from the interior on passing downs.
RDE/E: Aaron Lynch; Tank Carradine --- Now, on to the two premier pass rushing positions in order: 1) Elephant 2) SAM & 3) LDE
SAM: Eli Harold; Ahmad Brooks, Carl Bradford & Dekoda Watson --- Harold actually has a legit chance to follow Irvin's pattern here and move between the SAM and Elephant (E) or perhaps, give you some quality QB pressures and sacks from the strong side next to Buckner. Lynch & Carradine are the big question marks at the E. Carradine has the college experience as a true edge rusher but has dealt with weight and scheme changes. Can this be his year? You better not count on it. And Lynch, while, our most natural pass rusher in a 3-4, he's no edge rusher from the E in our new 4-3.

With only 3 LB's and being in nickel 60-70% of the time, you better have some true edge rushers for your race car packages. The rest of the players seem to be solid fits of this hybrid 3-4/4-3. But to make this bad boy work, you gotta bring the heat. And if you can find a player like Irvin who can pass rush from both the SAM and E or a Bennett who can pass rush from both edge spots and some interior as well and add a Clark to that pass rush rotation, you'll make the LB's and DB's look a million times better and can afford them to be much more physical and aggressive.

Originally posted by NCommand:

RDE/E: Aaron Lynch; Tank Carradine --- Now, on to the two premier pass rushing positions in order: 1) Elephant 2) SAM & 3) LDE
SAM: Eli Harold; Ahmad Brooks, Carl Bradford & Dekoda Watson --- Harold actually has a legit chance to follow Irvin's pattern here and move between the SAM and Elephant (E) or perhaps, give you some quality QB pressures and sacks from the strong side next to Buckner. Lynch & Carradine are the big question marks at the E. Carradine has the college experience as a true edge rusher but has dealt with weight and scheme changes. Can this be his year? You better not count on it. And Lynch, while, our most natural pass rusher in a 3-4, he's no edge rusher from the E in our new 4-3.

With only 3 LB's and being in nickel 60-70% of the time, you better have some true edge rushers for your race car packages. The rest of the players seem to be solid fits of this hybrid 3-4/4-3. But to make this bad boy work, you gotta bring the heat. And if you can find a player like Irvin who can pass rush from both the SAM and E or a Bennett who can pass rush from both edge spots and some interior as well and add a Clark to that pass rush rotation, you'll make the LB's and DB's look a million times better and can afford them to be much more physical and aggressive.

I cannot disagree with you, because this style of defense does rely on a good FS and Elephant edge rusher. And honestly, I don't have Eli making the final cuts. But he does have a legit chance with a new staff who may see him differently. I do think Lynch can rush the the Elephant edge though.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
So!! Those were different drafts. I think its foolish, asinine to conclude that because Willis or Kuechly didn't go #2 no other ILB should. Foster can go #2 because he's a top 5 talent. In THIS draft there aren't many players better than Foster. And please, that don't mean that I think Willis or Kuechly weren't worthy of #2 picks. So save that before that comes out.

What makes Foster a top 5 talent?

His tape is great, his intensity is great but is he some rare breed of athlete to go along with that tape? He's less than ideal size and without a dominant front in front of him his ability to make plays could be seriously hampered.

I don't see Foster as a generational type of talent at LB, to draft one at #2 he sure as hell better be and better not have any injury or off the field concerns to worry about.

Originally posted by genus49:
What makes Foster a top 5 talent?

His tape is great, his intensity is great but is he some rare breed of athlete to go along with that tape? He's less than ideal size and without a dominant front in front of him his ability to make plays could be seriously hampered.

I don't see Foster as a generational type of talent at LB, to draft one at #2 he sure as hell better be and better not have any injury or off the field concerns to worry about.

Agree, to disagree.

Would not be happy with this draft at all. First decent pick doesn't come until the 4th round in Johnson from BC.

Foster has too many questions about his attitude for a #2 pick. Watson doesn't have the arm strength Shanny would like at QB. Don't trust in USC receivers and Kpassagnon is not what we need at LEO. Like the Roberts pick at TE late, but that's about it.

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Would not be happy with this draft at all. First decent pick doesn't come until the 4th round in Johnson from BC.

Foster has too many questions about his attitude for a #2 pick. Watson doesn't have the arm strength Shanny would like at QB. Don't trust in USC receivers and Kpassagnon is not what we need at LEO. Like the Roberts pick at TE late, but that's about it.

You know, "reading is fundamental".

I don't harbor USC hangups.

Shanny's office don't require cannon arms.

This roster is full enough of "decent" late rounders as it is. Its why we're devoid of top talent.

And Watson's arm strength, while not Kaeps, isn't weak either. I mean, I've seen him throw deep, a lot. He just needs work on throwing deep with consistent accuracy, and that can be fixed. Personally, I think Watson's shortcomings are being way over played, and I have my suspicions about that. Once thing's for sure he's a much better passer than Kaep, and better QB than what we have on the roster now. Hoyer and Barkley have only the benefit of NFL coaching and NFL development over Watson. They've seen NFL defenses and NFL playbooks. Outside of that neither of them are really as good as Watson. (NO, that don't mean I think he should come in and start day one.)

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

You know, "reading is fundamental".

I don't harbor USC hangups.

Shanny's office don't require cannon arms.

This roster is full enough of "decent" late rounders as it is. Its why we're devoid of top talent.

And Watson's arm strength, while not Kaeps, isn't weak either. I mean, I've seen him throw deep, a lot. He just needs work on throwing deep with consistent accuracy, and that can be fixed. Personally, I think Watson's shortcomings are being way over played, and I have my suspicions about that. Once thing's for sure he's a much better passer than Kaep, and better QB than what we have on the roster now. Hoyer and Barkley have only the benefit of NFL coaching and NFL development over Watson. They've seen NFL defenses and NFL playbooks. Outside of that neither of them are really as good as Watson. (NO, that don't mean I think he should come in and start day one.)

I like Watson but I don't even think it's being able to throw deep it's his lack of lack of ball velocity that's kinda a issue...49 MPH is not good at all.

Here's a list of QBs sine 2008 and their measurables (including velocity) it's not very good for Watson.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I really wanted to take my time this year before I released my mock. I admit that I wanted to get a look at the type of FA Lynch and Shanny would bring in. That gives us a bit of a glimpse of how they see the roster they've inherited, which in turn would heavily influence who they seek to draft. K. Shanny and Lynch are gonna have 10 picks to begin the rebuild. From what I read they are gonna take the slow approach, so I really don't think we need to be as aggressive in the draft with trade ups. But they've done a really good job in FA, so I also don't think we need to do a lot of trading back either. Not all holes are gonna be fixed in year one, so they shouldn't try to force-fix them with simply a bunch of late round bodies. We see how that's left this roster. I think we should draft all 10 of our picks, trading back only for deals we cannot refuse.

Without further ado. . . .

1.
ILB – Reuben Foster, 6-1, 240lbs
Originally I really wanted us to trade back into the first to get this kid. But after thinking about it, and now that the combine is over and things have settled, I think that we must get this kid now. If we trade back a few picks to get him I'm OK with that, but we still need a trade back partner. If we cannot get a trade-back partner I'm good with getting him at #2. I know I'm in the minority on this (and frankly, I don't give a sh!t), as most fans here are for Garrett, or looking for any trade-back scenario if he isn't there. Well, I'm sorry, I won't join that bandwagon. I cannot see this team addressing the D-line for a 3rd straight draft. That simply won't be responsible. This team has at least three bigger needs than OLB/DE. Furthermore, while getting to the QB was the glaring issue last season, IMHO, that was more of a symptom of bigger issues than the an edge rusher itself being the issue with the defense, chief among them being scheme (which was lack direction), injuries (which forced us to start special team guys), youth along the D-line (which flashed, but inconsistent), our top OLB being out much of the season, the awful play at the NG position, and Chip Kelly's near disregard for NFL roster realities. IMHO, we already have decent personnel to provide at least a consistent passrush. But the issues I advanced severely stunted our passrush game. Having one stud, and the other just a plug-in (as what we have with Bowman, and the others), exposes your defense to all kinds of predictabilities. A stud pass rusher can be schemed against, especially when your offence isn't offering anything to help the defense.

Reuben Foster is easily a top 5 player, and worth a 2nd overall selection if we cannot find a trade back partner in the top 10. This guy is a sure thing, and will have a career of multiple Pro Bowls. He fits perfectly with any scheme. He would bring back that intimidating element this team has been sorely missing since we let Goldson walk out the door. In fact, Foster will bring some nastiness to our defense that will no doubt alter the offenses game plan. Like Bowman and Willis (yes, I'm making that comparison), Foster is PURE middle LB. If this guy is here with the 2nd pick overall, or if we can trade back somewhere in the top 10 to get him, then we need to get this kid in a 49er uniform. And with the signing of Malcolm Smith this would be the best starting LB corps in the league if we draft Foster with our 1st pick.

(Start the below video at 0:55 seconds in.)



2.
QB – Deshaun Watson, Clemson, 6-2, 221lbs
The signings of Hoyer and Barkley really don't change my mind on drafting a QB high in this draft. I have this kid rated as the top QB in this year's draft. Originally, I had us taking him with the 2nd overall. But ONLY because he played in a spread-style offence he's rated as a late 1st, early 2nd. That's a shame, given the production this kid has put on film. I'm not a fan of the spread AT ALL, but looking at this kid play and the intangibles he brings I don't think, with a season or two to sit and learn, he'll have an issue transitioning to the NFL game. As a coach myself I truly feel that the spread really under-develops players all across the offence. But I think the NFL itself plays a role in this as well, particularly with the gross lack of patients to develop QB's for the NFL game. Very few of even the top QB's come out really ready to take on an NFL playbook. Thankfully, Shanahan & Co. have an honest six years to turn this around. Drafting a QB here and letting him develop properly will go a long way for the long-term.

Admittedly, I originally was not for this kid; I wanted Mitch Trubisky. But Trubisky just don't have enough on film to justify a first day selection, not to mention his awful combine. Picking Trubisky in the first, or 2nd, will be a real mistake. I made a lot of comparisons of Watson to RG3. One of the main questions I had of Watson was his toughness and durability due to his frame. That Championship game with Alabama thoroughly convinced me. Alabama hit this kid hard and often. And that's from THE most NFL-like team in NCAA football with NFL bound players up and down the defense, 4 with 1st round grades. (Where the hell does Saben get these kids?) In this game he proved his toughness, durability, poise, and leadership. Most importantly, he showed consistent accuracy, and I don't care what anyone says. Plus, he set himself apart in the combine. Is he accurate 100% of the time? No! But neither are even the top NFL QB's. In fact – and I don't care what anyone says – his accuracy, for me at least, has been around NFL average all season. In K. Shanny's WCO he's gonna be very good. Though he don't have the arm strength of C. Kaep his mid-range and short game accuracy is better than average, and he literally picked that NFL talented Alabama defense apart with it. He read the defense, audibled at the LOS – often – and stood in the pocket, kept his eyes downfield, and repeatedly delivered the ball with accuracy. Now, I think he can use a few more pounds or so (I know, Matt Ryan is 6-4, 217, and Watson was 221 at the combine), and unless he plays like Dak Prescott in camp and the preseason, I do think he (and all the QB's in this draft) need to sit for a season and be bridged in. With the signing of Hoyer and Barkley Kyle & Co. will have every reason and opportunity to develop this kid for a season, or two. In any event, we need to get this kid on our roster under K. Shanny's tutelage. And with a REAL 6 year contract I really think Shanny & Co. can afford to take that kind of time that most owners are too impatient to swallow.

[Note: If Watson is gone at this point I'm good with getting DeShone Kizer or Patrick Mahomes here. But we CANNOT get a QB later than this point.]

Edit -

1.
CB – Marshon Lattimore, Ohio State, 6-0, 193lbs, 4-3 40
I'm so hating this pick. But please understand that our prospects for a trade this season is highly unlikely. This draft is deep in a lot of areas, in particular in the 2nd - 4th rounds. This means that anyone we have to take here will ultimately be a bit of "reach". I really do think Cleveland will be taking Garrette #1 overall. And I don't care what anyone says, Trubisky isn't the best QB in this draft. Watson is. But neither is worth a 1st as they will both need time to develop. But I get it, the position is valued as it should. It is the most important position on the field. But this season it's over-valued. So for me, with a deeper QB class next season we should build the defense first and pick our QB of the future next season.



2.
ILB – Reuben Foster, 6-1, 240lbs
I had to drop him here. With the news of his diluted test and issues at the combine I think he drops out the 1st. I think we cannot pass up on this guy here. It would be a steal. But if he's not here I say we get LB Zach Cunningham out of Vanderbilt.