Waterbear mock #2 (Double trade down)

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
My biggest criticism of my own draft is that I think Reagor and Blacklock might go earlier than in this mock.

So I agree there.

But I disagree with your opinion that drafting Reagor as our top pick is a bad thing. The only thing that matters is getting the best draft possible.

Reagor + 2 second rounders than any top WR. This team still has holes and I don't see that big of a gap with the top 3 WRs.

Sure it has holes but using 2 2nd round picks on depth players at positions of strength even if they're lower 2nd round picks isn't worth trading down for Reagor.

If you used them on CB or even more OL(not sure Lewis is worth a 2nd rounder either) then it would make sense. Like I said I like those players but I feel like you overdrafted them and they wouldn't get much playing time now...and we need to win now.

Yes we are drafting for long term success but when you're a team coming off a SB(even tho it's a loss) and you have two first round picks you better make them count and trading way back to just add depth isn't smart IMO.

Generally curious as to which players you think wouldn't start?

And don't get me started about position importance. You start worrying about that and that's how you get Soloman Thomas instead of Jamal Adams.

lol touche.

I don't think Gibson or Zuniga would start. Lewis would have a battle on his hands as well.

Lewis would probably have the easiest path to start but I see no way Gibson gets a bulk of the snaps with our loaded RB depth chart or Zuniga getting starting reps over Bosa, Ford, Armstead. He'd be excellent in a rotation and I like both of those guys a lot...but i'm looking at our needs and our depth so it's not as much of Thomas over Adams since Adams would've started for us.

Do you think Gibson or Zuniga would actually take starting reps heading into week 1(assuming injuries aren't an issue which i pray they're not)

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by davidboutte:

Id love the first two trades and I'd hate the third. None are realistic. Reagor at 28 is fine, Blacklock at 40 is ideal and realistic. Gibson at 57 and Zuniga at 60 would be insane. For one we aren't drafting a 2nd round RB in any situation. For two one of the consensus top 3 RB's could be there. Gibson is not a 2nd round prospect. Zuniga isn't either. And it's not close. To make unrealistic trades and over draft players by multiple rounds is somewhat of an epic fail.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2020/04/03/draft-big-board-updated-top-100-prospects

Above is a top 100 ranking. One of many and just happened to be the first one I pulled up. Like everyone I've looked at or at least noticed Gibson and Zuniga aren't there. That being said I'm not opposed to either player as fits for our team at all. Either player in rounds 4-5 would be both accurate and justified. Nice job with videos and putting this together. I'd love to see reworked trades and picks. Since the trades were unfair and your players over drafted it's quite possible to adjust trades and draft same players at realistic spots and get positive feedback

That's one websites projection. If you've been doing mocks as long as I have you know the projections vary greatly between sites and compared to the actual draft. So you could say some players are overdrafted but we will know for sure come draft time.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/offensive-linemen

Lewis is 121 on this one. I'd love to see who thinks he's a top 5 IOL. Please share

Originally posted by davidboutte:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by davidboutte:

Id love the first two trades and I'd hate the third. None are realistic. Reagor at 28 is fine, Blacklock at 40 is ideal and realistic. Gibson at 57 and Zuniga at 60 would be insane. For one we aren't drafting a 2nd round RB in any situation. For two one of the consensus top 3 RB's could be there. Gibson is not a 2nd round prospect. Zuniga isn't either. And it's not close. To make unrealistic trades and over draft players by multiple rounds is somewhat of an epic fail.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2020/04/03/draft-big-board-updated-top-100-prospects

Above is a top 100 ranking. One of many and just happened to be the first one I pulled up. Like everyone I've looked at or at least noticed Gibson and Zuniga aren't there. That being said I'm not opposed to either player as fits for our team at all. Either player in rounds 4-5 would be both accurate and justified. Nice job with videos and putting this together. I'd love to see reworked trades and picks. Since the trades were unfair and your players over drafted it's quite possible to adjust trades and draft same players at realistic spots and get positive feedback

That's one websites projection. If you've been doing mocks as long as I have you know the projections vary greatly between sites and compared to the actual draft. So you could say some players are overdrafted but we will know for sure come draft time.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/offensive-linemen

Lewis is 121 on this one. I'd love to see who thinks he's a top 5 IOL. Please share

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/nfl-draft-prospects-2020-big-board-top-100-players/4g8v0bsp4p2n1o952wtueecs5

Top 100, no Lewis. The first 3 I pulled up support my argument. The next 3 will as well.

I'd bet over 78 the difference between 55 and 100. You pick the term

Originally posted by davidboutte:

Originally posted by davidboutte:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by davidboutte:

Id love the first two trades and I'd hate the third. None are realistic. Reagor at 28 is fine, Blacklock at 40 is ideal and realistic. Gibson at 57 and Zuniga at 60 would be insane. For one we aren't drafting a 2nd round RB in any situation. For two one of the consensus top 3 RB's could be there. Gibson is not a 2nd round prospect. Zuniga isn't either. And it's not close. To make unrealistic trades and over draft players by multiple rounds is somewhat of an epic fail.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2020/04/03/draft-big-board-updated-top-100-prospects

Above is a top 100 ranking. One of many and just happened to be the first one I pulled up. Like everyone I've looked at or at least noticed Gibson and Zuniga aren't there. That being said I'm not opposed to either player as fits for our team at all. Either player in rounds 4-5 would be both accurate and justified. Nice job with videos and putting this together. I'd love to see reworked trades and picks. Since the trades were unfair and your players over drafted it's quite possible to adjust trades and draft same players at realistic spots and get positive feedback

That's one websites projection. If you've been doing mocks as long as I have you know the projections vary greatly between sites and compared to the actual draft. So you could say some players are overdrafted but we will know for sure come draft time.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/offensive-linemen

Lewis is 121 on this one. I'd love to see who thinks he's a top 5 IOL. Please share

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/nfl-draft-prospects-2020-big-board-top-100-players/4g8v0bsp4p2n1o952wtueecs5

Top 100, no Lewis. The first 3 I pulled up support my argument. The next 3 will as well.

CBS is trash. They also have Cesar Ruiz rated very low.

Ask anyone who you think is credible on here if they think Cesar Ruiz lasts until the 3rd round (which is where they have him). I'll wait.

Originally posted by davidboutte:

I'd bet over 78 the difference between 55 and 100. You pick the term

78 the difference of 55 and 100?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

My biggest criticism of my own draft is that I think Reagor and Blacklock might go earlier than in this mock.

So I agree there.

But I disagree with your opinion that drafting Reagor as our top pick is a bad thing. The only thing that matters is getting the best draft possible.

Reagor + 2 second rounders than any top WR. This team still has holes and I don't see that big of a gap with the top 3 WRs.

Sure it has holes but using 2 2nd round picks on depth players at positions of strength even if they're lower 2nd round picks isn't worth trading down for Reagor.

If you used them on CB or even more OL(not sure Lewis is worth a 2nd rounder either) then it would make sense. Like I said I like those players but I feel like you overdrafted them and they wouldn't get much playing time now...and we need to win now.

Yes we are drafting for long term success but when you're a team coming off a SB(even tho it's a loss) and you have two first round picks you better make them count and trading way back to just add depth isn't smart IMO.

Generally curious as to which players you think wouldn't start?

And don't get me started about position importance. You start worrying about that and that's how you get Soloman Thomas instead of Jamal Adams.

lol touche.

I don't think Gibson or Zuniga would start. Lewis would have a battle on his hands as well.

Lewis would probably have the easiest path to start but I see no way Gibson gets a bulk of the snaps with our loaded RB depth chart or Zuniga getting starting reps over Bosa, Ford, Armstead. He'd be excellent in a rotation and I like both of those guys a lot...but i'm looking at our needs and our depth so it's not as much of Thomas over Adams since Adams would've started for us.

Do you think Gibson or Zuniga would actually take starting reps heading into week 1(assuming injuries aren't an issue which i pray they're not)

If we drafted Gibson I would honestly assume nothing less than a pro bowl RB... maybe all-pro in this system. KS is finicky with his depth chart but he certainly could be a starter right away.

Zadinga wont start... but in my mock I would have Reagor, Blacklock, Lewis and Gibson starting or contributing immediately.

We have 4 contracts that we need to address imo. 1. Joe Staley. 2 Richard Sherman 3. Dee Ford 4. McKinnon/Coleman (RB group)

Those are the players I think we need to plan to replace.

I don't think this is a great CB class so I don't see us immediately finding a solution this year.

I've started mocks with Thomas to address OT but I like the value of this mock better.

the Dee Ford contract is probably going to run it's course. While he's a good player, I don't trust him to stay healthy and I think Zuniga would fill in nicely. Zuniga wouldn't have to beat out AA and Ford. If Ford goes down he's immediately the starter in nickel. Which is very likely imo.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by davidboutte:

Id love the first two trades and I'd hate the third. None are realistic. Reagor at 28 is fine, Blacklock at 40 is ideal and realistic. Gibson at 57 and Zuniga at 60 would be insane. For one we aren't drafting a 2nd round RB in any situation. For two one of the consensus top 3 RB's could be there. Gibson is not a 2nd round prospect. Zuniga isn't either. And it's not close. To make unrealistic trades and over draft players by multiple rounds is somewhat of an epic fail.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2020/04/03/draft-big-board-updated-top-100-prospects

Above is a top 100 ranking. One of many and just happened to be the first one I pulled up. Like everyone I've looked at or at least noticed Gibson and Zuniga aren't there. That being said I'm not opposed to either player as fits for our team at all. Either player in rounds 4-5 would be both accurate and justified. Nice job with videos and putting this together. I'd love to see reworked trades and picks. Since the trades were unfair and your players over drafted it's quite possible to adjust trades and draft same players at realistic spots and get positive feedback

That's one websites projection. If you've been doing mocks as long as I have you know the projections vary greatly between sites and compared to the actual draft. So you could say some players are overdrafted but we will know for sure come draft time.

They do vary greatly which is why I'd love to see one that backs your opinion. I like the players. I like the fit. I just don't like where they are being taken. I must admit I looked at several others. I did find one board that had Gibson at 63, Lewis was at 95, and Zuniga 140. I haven't seen Lewis or Zuniga anywhere near the 2nd round. If you love the guy and are aware of where he's projected, both high and low, just agknowledge it, own it and we will see come the draft.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
If we drafted Gibson I would honestly assume nothing less than a pro bowl RB... maybe all-pro in this system. KS is finicky with his depth chart but he certainly could be a starter right away.

Zadinga wont start... but in my mock I would have Reagor, Blacklock, Lewis and Gibson starting or contributing immediately.

We have 4 contracts that we need to address imo. 1. Joe Staley. 2 Richard Sherman 3. Dee Ford 4. McKinnon/Coleman (RB group)

Those are the players I think we need to plan to replace.

I don't think this is a great CB class so I don't see us immediately finding a solution this year.

I've started mocks with Thomas to address OT but I like the value of this mock better.

the Dee Ford contract is probably going to run it's course. While he's a good player, I don't trust him to stay healthy and I think Zuniga would fill in nicely. Zuniga wouldn't have to beat out AA and Ford. If Ford goes down he's immediately the starter in nickel. Which is very likely imo.

I always appreciate someone who has a plan and I respect it. As I've said I like all those players and maybe I should forget the whole where they want factor and just appreciate the players you have us taking because end of the day if we got that haul I'd be pretty happy...just that one part of me that remembers we have the 13th pick in this draft and looking up and not really seeing a guy you can definitely say was worth giving up Defo for.

Stepping back from that idea I think you're right Reagor and Blacklock definitely contribute right away. Lewis has a good chance at it.

Gibson I like and we know Kyle goes with the hot hand plenty but while I love his skillset do you see him getting pass protection down to the point where Kyle gives him bulk reps over Mostert, McKinnon(if he sticks), Coleman? I'm just not seeing it.

And while I get your thought process with drafting to get out of some contracts/cover our asses for retirements/decline in play...we're also a team coming off a SB. We get the luxury of having two 1st round picks(even if we don't have round 2-4) with one of those picks being 13th overall. I feel like while our window hopefully isn't as small as the Rams was it's not long enough to give up that prime pick for more depth guys.

But I wouldn't HATE it. Just would think it's not taking advantage of the opportunity to swap a great player like Defo for hopefully a younger, similar impact player.

i dont think we should give up pick 13 unless its for a hell of a deal.