The Christian Ponder Bandwagon

I am currently on the Ponder Pontiac©®™.

We'll see how that changes as time goes on with the combine and pro days. It'll be interesting to see how his draft stock changes between now and the draft.

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Stay away from QBs who:

1) Have injury history on their THROWING arm
2) When scouts say "strong enough"
3) Have injury history with concussions
4) Come from Florida State

I don't get why people use the argument "Don't draft a qb who comes from so and so school" Thats the most idiotic argument one can have. Ponder played in a completely different system then any QB at FSU prior to him. Thank God we didn't draft every QB that came from Notre Dame or BYU...

Ponder had 1 concussion. Stop the presses...

There is a knock on every single QB coming out. Rather it's accuracy issues, pocket issues, arm strength issues. I'm glad Bill Walsh took a chance with Montana.

The QB from BYU you are referencing was not drafted by the 49ers organization. He was traded for.

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
I continue to maintain that at least factoring in the history that a school has had in producing pro-style QBs. Saying that this factor is idiotic, is an uninformed statement. As a matter of fact - saying that anyones "opinon" in idiotic often just calls into question the validity of the critics motives.

Had Ponder lit the world on fire his Senior year and his only knock was that he comes from the barren wasteland of FSU quarterbacks, then it wouldn't be such a factor.

FSU QB + Concussion + (most importantly) throwing arm issues = dangerous prospect not worth more than a 4th round pick.

Again, Ponder is not the typical FSU QB. Bobby Bowden had little to do with Ponder's devlopment. Jimbo Fisher took over the offense a few years ago and coached up Ponder.

It sure did bite everyone in the ass when we all thought that way when we passed up Aaron Rodgers.

Oklahoma has had a poor QB record too, St Louis seemed to hit a gem.

Recent Michigan QBs have seemed to flop too but Brady sure does look good.

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
I continue to maintain that at least factoring in the history that a school has had in producing pro-style QBs. Saying that this factor is idiotic, is an uninformed statement. As a matter of fact - saying that anyones "opinon" in idiotic often just calls into question the validity of the critics motives.

Had Ponder lit the world on fire his Senior year and his only knock was that he comes from the barren wasteland of FSU quarterbacks, then it wouldn't be such a factor.

FSU QB + Concussion + (most importantly) throwing arm issues = dangerous prospect not worth more than a 4th round pick.

Again, Ponder is not the typical FSU QB. Bobby Bowden had little to do with Ponder's devlopment. Jimbo Fisher took over the offense a few years ago and coached up Ponder.

It sure did bite everyone in the ass when we all thought that way when we passed up Aaron Rodgers.

Oklahoma has had a poor QB record too, St Louis seemed to hit a gem.

Recent Michigan QBs have seemed to flop too but Brady sure does look good.

Agreed on all points - and when/if FSU "hits" with a QB then I will bow my head in concession. Until then - Ponder has huge issues, and FSU's QB history is on the list. Buyer beware - and there are much better prospects.

Originally posted by DarthNiner:

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Stay away from QBs who:

1) Have injury history on their THROWING arm
2) When scouts say "strong enough"
3) Have injury history with concussions
4) Come from Florida State

I don't get why people use the argument "Don't draft a qb who comes from so and so school" Thats the most idiotic argument one can have. Ponder played in a completely different system then any QB at FSU prior to him. Thank God we didn't draft every QB that came from Notre Dame or BYU...

Ponder had 1 concussion. Stop the presses...

There is a knock on every single QB coming out. Rather it's accuracy issues, pocket issues, arm strength issues. I'm glad Bill Walsh took a chance with Montana.

They used to say that about concussions, until Aaron Rodgers came along.

Originally posted by Rathman_44:

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
I continue to maintain that at least factoring in the history that a school has had in producing pro-style QBs. Saying that this factor is idiotic, is an uninformed statement. As a matter of fact - saying that anyones "opinon" in idiotic often just calls into question the validity of the critics motives.

Had Ponder lit the world on fire his Senior year and his only knock was that he comes from the barren wasteland of FSU quarterbacks, then it wouldn't be such a factor.

FSU QB + Concussion + (most importantly) throwing arm issues = dangerous prospect not worth more than a 4th round pick.

Again, Ponder is not the typical FSU QB. Bobby Bowden had little to do with Ponder's devlopment. Jimbo Fisher took over the offense a few years ago and coached up Ponder.

It sure did bite everyone in the ass when we all thought that way when we passed up Aaron Rodgers.

Oklahoma has had a poor QB record too, St Louis seemed to hit a gem.

Recent Michigan QBs have seemed to flop too but Brady sure does look good.

Agreed on all points - and when/if FSU "hits" with a QB then I will bow my head in concession. Until then - Ponder has huge issues, and FSU's QB history is on the list. Buyer beware - and there are much better prospects.

Top 10 QBs by Passer Rating, their schools, and that school's history of QBs:

1. Brady - Michigan - Lackluster at best. Brady is by far the best, everyone else had pretty meciocre NFL careers (Brian Griese, Jim Harbaugh, Henne to date, Grbac)
2. Rivers - NC State - Anyone after him would kill to have Weinke's NFL career.
3. Rodgers - Cal - Steve Bartkowskit is probably the 2nd best Cal QB in the NFL ever. Him being a Cal Tedford product was actually considered a reason not to draft him. Glad we took school into account, with all those Utah QBs burning up the NFL.
4. Vick - VA Tech - Basically the only notable VT QB in the NFL.
5. Roethlisberger - Miami (OH) - Again, no one else.
6. Freeman - Kansas State - Michael Bishop is the 2nd most notable KState QB.
7. Flacco - Delaware - Rich Gannon is the best, followed by Flacco. Devlin looks like to be a high draft pick as well. So far DELAWARE has the best QB record.
8. Cassell - USC - Notorious for under-achieving pro QBs (Marinovich, Rob Johnson, Leinart). Half this board REALLY doesn't want Palmer, but he's probably the best USC QB ever, followed by Rodney Peete. Sanchez is up in the air. Cassell looks like he could end up being the best and he famously never started a game while at USC.
9. Schaub - Virgina - Aaron Brooks and Schaub are the only notables here.
10. Manning - Tennessee - Next best is famous bust Heath Schuler.

I only included fairly recent history, because it's pretty hard to argue Brian Brohm will be good because Johnny Unitas went to Louisville.

So tell me again why school history is so important?

[ Edited by Digger on Feb 2, 2011 at 10:15:19 ]

Originally posted by Digger:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
I continue to maintain that at least factoring in the history that a school has had in producing pro-style QBs. Saying that this factor is idiotic, is an uninformed statement. As a matter of fact - saying that anyones "opinon" in idiotic often just calls into question the validity of the critics motives.

Had Ponder lit the world on fire his Senior year and his only knock was that he comes from the barren wasteland of FSU quarterbacks, then it wouldn't be such a factor.

FSU QB + Concussion + (most importantly) throwing arm issues = dangerous prospect not worth more than a 4th round pick.

Again, Ponder is not the typical FSU QB. Bobby Bowden had little to do with Ponder's devlopment. Jimbo Fisher took over the offense a few years ago and coached up Ponder.

It sure did bite everyone in the ass when we all thought that way when we passed up Aaron Rodgers.

Oklahoma has had a poor QB record too, St Louis seemed to hit a gem.

Recent Michigan QBs have seemed to flop too but Brady sure does look good.

Agreed on all points - and when/if FSU "hits" with a QB then I will bow my head in concession. Until then - Ponder has huge issues, and FSU's QB history is on the list. Buyer beware - and there are much better prospects.

Top 10 QBs by Passer Rating, their schools, and that school's history of QBs:

1. Brady - Michigan - Lackluster at best. Brady is by far the best, everyone else had pretty meciocre NFL careers (Brian Griese, Jim Harbaugh, Henne to date, Grbac)
2. Rivers - NC State - Anyone after him would kill to have Weinke's NFL career.
3. Rodgers - Cal - Steve Bartkowskit is probably the 2nd best Cal QB in the NFL ever. Him being a Cal Tedford product was actually considered a reason not to draft him. Glad we took school into account, with all those Utah QBs burning up the NFL.
4. Vick - VA Tech - Basically the only notable VT QB in the NFL.
5. Roethlisberger - Miami (OH) - Again, no one else.
6. Freeman - Kansas State - Michael Bishop is the 2nd most notable KState QB.
7. Flacco - Delaware - Rich Gannon is the best, followed by Flacco. Devlin looks like to be a high draft pick as well. So far DELAWARE has the best QB record.
8. Cassell - USC - Notorious for under-achieving pro QBs (Marinovich, Rob Johnson, Leinart). Half this board REALLY doesn't want Palmer, but he's probably the best USC QB ever, followed by Rodney Peete. Sanchez is up in the air. Cassell looks like he could end up being the best and he famously never started a game while at USC.
9. Schaub - Virgina - Aaron Brooks and Schaub are the only notables here.
10. Manning - Tennessee - Next best is famous bust Heath Schuler.

I only included fairly recent history, because it's pretty hard to argue Brian Brohm will be good because Johnny Unitas went to Louisville.

So tell me again why school history is so important?

Originally posted by Digger:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
I continue to maintain that at least factoring in the history that a school has had in producing pro-style QBs. Saying that this factor is idiotic, is an uninformed statement. As a matter of fact - saying that anyones "opinon" in idiotic often just calls into question the validity of the critics motives.

Had Ponder lit the world on fire his Senior year and his only knock was that he comes from the barren wasteland of FSU quarterbacks, then it wouldn't be such a factor.

FSU QB + Concussion + (most importantly) throwing arm issues = dangerous prospect not worth more than a 4th round pick.

Again, Ponder is not the typical FSU QB. Bobby Bowden had little to do with Ponder's devlopment. Jimbo Fisher took over the offense a few years ago and coached up Ponder.

It sure did bite everyone in the ass when we all thought that way when we passed up Aaron Rodgers.

Oklahoma has had a poor QB record too, St Louis seemed to hit a gem.

Recent Michigan QBs have seemed to flop too but Brady sure does look good.

Agreed on all points - and when/if FSU "hits" with a QB then I will bow my head in concession. Until then - Ponder has huge issues, and FSU's QB history is on the list. Buyer beware - and there are much better prospects.

Top 10 QBs by Passer Rating, their schools, and that school's history of QBs:

1. Brady - Michigan - Lackluster at best. Brady is by far the best, everyone else had pretty meciocre NFL careers (Brian Griese, Jim Harbaugh, Henne to date, Grbac)
2. Rivers - NC State - Anyone after him would kill to have Weinke's NFL career.
3. Rodgers - Cal - Steve Bartkowskit is probably the 2nd best Cal QB in the NFL ever. Him being a Cal Tedford product was actually considered a reason not to draft him. Glad we took school into account, with all those Utah QBs burning up the NFL.
4. Vick - VA Tech - Basically the only notable VT QB in the NFL.
5. Roethlisberger - Miami (OH) - Again, no one else.
6. Freeman - Kansas State - Michael Bishop is the 2nd most notable KState QB.
7. Flacco - Delaware - Rich Gannon is the best, followed by Flacco. Devlin looks like to be a high draft pick as well. So far DELAWARE has the best QB record.
8. Cassell - USC - Notorious for under-achieving pro QBs (Marinovich, Rob Johnson, Leinart). Half this board REALLY doesn't want Palmer, but he's probably the best USC QB ever, followed by Rodney Peete. Sanchez is up in the air. Cassell looks like he could end up being the best and he famously never started a game while at USC.
9. Schaub - Virgina - Aaron Brooks and Schaub are the only notables here.
10. Manning - Tennessee - Next best is famous bust Heath Schuler.

I only included fairly recent history, because it's pretty hard to argue Brian Brohm will be good because Johnny Unitas went to Louisville.

So tell me again why school history is so important?

Again (and again) - I am not saying that it is the ONLY factor, or even a hugely important one. I am simply saying that it is extremely short sighted not to at least factor in a school's QB history. As I said in my last response - were school history his only issue, I wouldn't question his creditials at all. But since it is not - it stands to reason that all factors must be taken into account when evaluating talent. Were Ponder to have no other red flags, school history wouldn't have any bearing on the situation.

This list is fairly comprehensive, but it only serves to make my point for me. These QBs put their schools on the map in terms of QB. There is also something to be said about draft position for most of these QBs. A flyer on Tom Brady in the 6th round is hardly mortgaging the future.

Hopefully this is the last time I have to say this. You are saying school history is a non-factor. I am simply saying that it needs to be at least reviewed given Ponder's other shortcomings.

[ Edited by Rathman_44 on Feb 3, 2011 at 07:08:25 ]

Originally posted by Rathman_44:

Originally posted by Digger:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
I continue to maintain that at least factoring in the history that a school has had in producing pro-style QBs. Saying that this factor is idiotic, is an uninformed statement. As a matter of fact - saying that anyones "opinon" in idiotic often just calls into question the validity of the critics motives.

Had Ponder lit the world on fire his Senior year and his only knock was that he comes from the barren wasteland of FSU quarterbacks, then it wouldn't be such a factor.

FSU QB + Concussion + (most importantly) throwing arm issues = dangerous prospect not worth more than a 4th round pick.

Again, Ponder is not the typical FSU QB. Bobby Bowden had little to do with Ponder's devlopment. Jimbo Fisher took over the offense a few years ago and coached up Ponder.

It sure did bite everyone in the ass when we all thought that way when we passed up Aaron Rodgers.

Oklahoma has had a poor QB record too, St Louis seemed to hit a gem.

Recent Michigan QBs have seemed to flop too but Brady sure does look good.

Agreed on all points - and when/if FSU "hits" with a QB then I will bow my head in concession. Until then - Ponder has huge issues, and FSU's QB history is on the list. Buyer beware - and there are much better prospects.

Top 10 QBs by Passer Rating, their schools, and that school's history of QBs:

1. Brady - Michigan - Lackluster at best. Brady is by far the best, everyone else had pretty meciocre NFL careers (Brian Griese, Jim Harbaugh, Henne to date, Grbac)
2. Rivers - NC State - Anyone after him would kill to have Weinke's NFL career.
3. Rodgers - Cal - Steve Bartkowskit is probably the 2nd best Cal QB in the NFL ever. Him being a Cal Tedford product was actually considered a reason not to draft him. Glad we took school into account, with all those Utah QBs burning up the NFL.
4. Vick - VA Tech - Basically the only notable VT QB in the NFL.
5. Roethlisberger - Miami (OH) - Again, no one else.
6. Freeman - Kansas State - Michael Bishop is the 2nd most notable KState QB.
7. Flacco - Delaware - Rich Gannon is the best, followed by Flacco. Devlin looks like to be a high draft pick as well. So far DELAWARE has the best QB record.
8. Cassell - USC - Notorious for under-achieving pro QBs (Marinovich, Rob Johnson, Leinart). Half this board REALLY doesn't want Palmer, but he's probably the best USC QB ever, followed by Rodney Peete. Sanchez is up in the air. Cassell looks like he could end up being the best and he famously never started a game while at USC.
9. Schaub - Virgina - Aaron Brooks and Schaub are the only notables here.
10. Manning - Tennessee - Next best is famous bust Heath Schuler.

I only included fairly recent history, because it's pretty hard to argue Brian Brohm will be good because Johnny Unitas went to Louisville.

So tell me again why school history is so important?

Again (and again) - I am not saying that it is the ONLY factor, or even a hugely important one. I am simply saying that it is extremely short sighted not to at least factor in a school's QB history. As I said in my last response - were school history his only issue, I wouldn't question his creditials at all. But since it is not - it stands to reason that all factors must be taken into account when evaluating talent. Were Ponder to have no other red flags, school history wouldn't have any bearing on the situation.

This list is fairly comprehensive, but it only serves to make my point for me. These QBs put their schools on the map in terms of QB. (Carson Palmer was conspicuously absent from the USC list however) There is also something to be said about draft position for most of these QBs. A flyer on Tom Brady in the 6th round is hardly mortgaging the future.

Hopefully this is the last time I have to say this. You are saying school history is a non-factor. I am simply saying that it needs to be at least reviewed given Ponder's other shortcomings.

The above is telling me that it doesn't.

Let's try this another way...

If you are a 5-star, can't miss, rocket armed QB ala: Peyton Manning...then school QB history is of little consequence.

If you are an injury-prone, questionably performing QB, then a contributing factor in your draft stock should include, but not be limited to, school's QB history.

Again - 1 factor, not the only factor.

It was an excellent list, but it by no means renders all other dissenting opinion invalid.

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
Let's try this another way...

If you are a 5-star, can't miss, rocket armed QB ala: Peyton Manning...then school QB history is of little consequence.

If you are an injury-prone, questionably performing QB, then a contributing factor in your draft stock should include, but not be limited to, school's QB history.

Again - 1 factor, not the only factor.

It was an excellent list, but it by no means renders all other dissenting opinion invalid.

This doesn't tell me why a school's ability to develop QB's 5, 10, or even 15 years ago is relevant to the QB class coming out this year...

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
Let's try this another way...

If you are a 5-star, can't miss, rocket armed QB ala: Peyton Manning...then school QB history is of little consequence.

If you are an injury-prone, questionably performing QB, then a contributing factor in your draft stock should include, but not be limited to, school's QB history.

Again - 1 factor, not the only factor.

It was an excellent list, but it by no means renders all other dissenting opinion invalid.

This doesn't tell me why a school's ability to develop QB's 5, 10, or even 15 years ago is relevant to the QB class coming out this year...

Then therein lies the krux of the disagreement. I contend that it is a valid thing to at least research while you find no such relevance. Agree to disagree I guess, but in no way can having as much information on a QB be a bad thing.

If reviewing a school's track record on QBs isn't relevent, how can asking a kid about his parent's divorce at the combine be perceived?

valrod33 @WesBunting what QB in the draft makes the most sense for the 49ers?



WesBunting @valrod33 I think the #49ers could look at #FSU QB Christian Ponder i round 2 #NFLDRAFT

Originally posted by Rathman_44:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Rathman_44:
Let's try this another way...

If you are a 5-star, can't miss, rocket armed QB ala: Peyton Manning...then school QB history is of little consequence.

If you are an injury-prone, questionably performing QB, then a contributing factor in your draft stock should include, but not be limited to, school's QB history.

Again - 1 factor, not the only factor.

It was an excellent list, but it by no means renders all other dissenting opinion invalid.

This doesn't tell me why a school's ability to develop QB's 5, 10, or even 15 years ago is relevant to the QB class coming out this year...

Then therein lies the krux of the disagreement. I contend that it is a valid thing to at least research while you find no such relevance. Agree to disagree I guess, but in no way can having as much information on a QB be a bad thing.

If reviewing a school's track record on QBs isn't relevent, how can asking a kid about his parent's divorce at the combine be perceived?

I suspect a prospect's parents divorce had a much stronger impact on his emotional development than whether or not Chris Weinke succeeded in the NFL.

Mainly I find it funny how this is an issue regarding Ponder, but I don't see many posts in the other threads about why TCU has failed to produce a good NFL QB since Sammy Baugh.

Originally posted by valrod33:
valrod33 @WesBunting what QB in the draft makes the most sense for the 49ers?



WesBunting @valrod33 I think the #49ers could look at #FSU QB Christian Ponder i round 2 #NFLDRAFT

And so it is settled