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If we got the 1st pick next year, do we take Luck even though we've got Kap?

Jul 8, 2011 at 11:48 AM
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by OldJoe:
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... more productive to throw him under the bus? ...before he plays a single NFL play??

More NFL ready?? You think anyone who plays a little better than in college is NFL ready?? That is why it is so hard to judge these guys. You have to make a titanic leap forward.

Luck is an automatic NFL great QB??? Kap is a project and will fade right away??
I don't think anyone knows who will excel at the QB spot ... and to act as if you do ... seems less than bright.


Prediction: Luck won't be the first-two picks of the draft 2012, most likely not top 5. Haven't seen a heralded junior do anything but drop.

Luck was doing it vs virginia tech, usc and other teams generally better than those kaepernick played against...and he was doing it in a pro style offense,,doesnt mean luck is automatic but it does mean (to me at least) he projects to be a better qb

Exactly.

Luck - Takes snaps from under center, went through progressions, played in Pro style offense.

Kaepernick - lined up in pistol, was not asked to go through progressions, played in Zone read option.

Does that mean one is capable of starting from day one and one isn't, no. But, coming from a Pro style offense gives you a better chance to be successful at the next level of football.

True, I do like how CK has come in acting like he wants it, I believe Alex seemed like he didn't want to be in the spotlight his rookie season. (if i recall correctly from his comments)
Jul 9, 2011 at 12:06 PM
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by hofer36:
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Luck was doing it vs virginia tech, usc and other teams generally better than those kaepernick played against...and he was doing it in a pro style offense,,doesnt mean luck is automatic but it does mean (to me at least) he projects to be a better qb

Exactly.

Luck - Takes snaps from under center, went through progressions, played in Pro style offense.

Kaepernick - lined up in pistol, was not asked to go through progressions, played in Zone read option.

Does that mean one is capable of starting from day one and one isn't, no. But, coming from a Pro style offense gives you a better chance to be successful at the next level of football.

True, I do like how CK has come in acting like he wants it, I believe Alex seemed like he didn't want to be in the spotlight his rookie season. (if i recall correctly from his comments)

I think your right about Smith not wanting to be in the spotlight, only he was forced in it. (don't really wanna get into too much of this subject BUT) I don't really blame Nolan too much for throwing Smith into the fire so quickly. If Rattay hadn't stunk it up, Smith would still be sitting. Nolan had no choice really, fans didn't like Rattay, fans wanted to see what their #1 overall pick could do. Nolan was in a "damned if he do, and damned if he don't" situation.
Jul 9, 2011 at 3:56 PM
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
+ Show all quotes
Exactly.

Luck - Takes snaps from under center, went through progressions, played in Pro style offense.

Kaepernick - lined up in pistol, was not asked to go through progressions, played in Zone read option.

Does that mean one is capable of starting from day one and one isn't, no. But, coming from a Pro style offense gives you a better chance to be successful at the next level of football.

True, I do like how CK has come in acting like he wants it, I believe Alex seemed like he didn't want to be in the spotlight his rookie season. (if i recall correctly from his comments)

I think your right about Smith not wanting to be in the spotlight, only he was forced in it. (don't really wanna get into too much of this subject BUT) I don't really blame Nolan too much for throwing Smith into the fire so quickly. If Rattay hadn't stunk it up, Smith would still be sitting. Nolan had no choice really, fans didn't like Rattay, fans wanted to see what their #1 overall pick could do. Nolan was in a "damned if he do, and damned if he don't" situation.

I dont think Nolan was in a no win situation, he was just too impatient, or ignorant about how to develop a young qb...Nolan picked the Colts, then undefeated and thought to be the best team in the nfl, for Smith's 1st start....that is not the way to build the confidence of a young qb....Bill Walsh didnt throw Montana directly into the starting lineup, indeed early on he would put Montana in near the red zone so Montana could have a chance for success and build some confidence
Jul 9, 2011 at 5:31 PM
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
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True, I do like how CK has come in acting like he wants it, I believe Alex seemed like he didn't want to be in the spotlight his rookie season. (if i recall correctly from his comments)

I think your right about Smith not wanting to be in the spotlight, only he was forced in it. (don't really wanna get into too much of this subject BUT) I don't really blame Nolan too much for throwing Smith into the fire so quickly. If Rattay hadn't stunk it up, Smith would still be sitting. Nolan had no choice really, fans didn't like Rattay, fans wanted to see what their #1 overall pick could do. Nolan was in a "damned if he do, and damned if he don't" situation.

I dont think Nolan was in a no win situation, he was just too impatient, or ignorant about how to develop a young qb...Nolan picked the Colts, then undefeated and thought to be the best team in the nfl, for Smith's 1st start....that is not the way to build the confidence of a young qb....Bill Walsh didnt throw Montana directly into the starting lineup, indeed early on he would put Montana in near the red zone so Montana could have a chance for success and build some confidence

C'mon, you don't say, hey they look easy enough you think you can handle it Alex. Btw, we went on a 3 game losing streak before he threw in Smith and we all knew Rattay wasn't the answer anyway.
Jul 9, 2011 at 6:34 PM
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
+ Show all quotes
Exactly.

Luck - Takes snaps from under center, went through progressions, played in Pro style offense.

Kaepernick - lined up in pistol, was not asked to go through progressions, played in Zone read option.

Does that mean one is capable of starting from day one and one isn't, no. But, coming from a Pro style offense gives you a better chance to be successful at the next level of football.

True, I do like how CK has come in acting like he wants it, I believe Alex seemed like he didn't want to be in the spotlight his rookie season. (if i recall correctly from his comments)

I think your right about Smith not wanting to be in the spotlight, only he was forced in it. (don't really wanna get into too much of this subject BUT) I don't really blame Nolan too much for throwing Smith into the fire so quickly. If Rattay hadn't stunk it up, Smith would still be sitting. Nolan had no choice really, fans didn't like Rattay, fans wanted to see what their #1 overall pick could do. Nolan was in a "damned if he do, and damned if he don't" situation.

We were on a losing streak, and Rattay wasn't stinking it up completely. I could be wrong, but I remember him having some good games.. Yet, he always seemed to throw one or two WTF INT's in the 4th q, of like every game.

Another thought on luck, I don't believe he will be the #1 pick, maybe the first QB off the board, but maybe not the #1 pick. One interesting thought though, I feel Carolina will again be one of the worst teams in the league, they might have the #1 pick next year. I wonder if they could possibly pass on luck, having just drafted Scam Newton, and already having Claussen onboard?
[ Edited by unst4bl3 on Jul 9, 2011 at 6:36 PM ]
Jul 10, 2011 at 1:59 AM
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
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I think your right about Smith not wanting to be in the spotlight, only he was forced in it. (don't really wanna get into too much of this subject BUT) I don't really blame Nolan too much for throwing Smith into the fire so quickly. If Rattay hadn't stunk it up, Smith would still be sitting. Nolan had no choice really, fans didn't like Rattay, fans wanted to see what their #1 overall pick could do. Nolan was in a "damned if he do, and damned if he don't" situation.

I dont think Nolan was in a no win situation, he was just too impatient, or ignorant about how to develop a young qb...Nolan picked the Colts, then undefeated and thought to be the best team in the nfl, for Smith's 1st start....that is not the way to build the confidence of a young qb....Bill Walsh didnt throw Montana directly into the starting lineup, indeed early on he would put Montana in near the red zone so Montana could have a chance for success and build some confidence

C'mon, you don't say, hey they look easy enough you think you can handle it Alex. Btw, we went on a 3 game losing streak before he threw in Smith and we all knew Rattay wasn't the answer anyway.

what should have been more important to nolan, trying to compete in a game vs an undefeated colts, with a squad that was 2-14 the year before, or the long term development of a qb you expended the #1 pick on and gave around $30 million guaranteed monet to?
Jul 11, 2011 at 8:20 PM
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by hofer36:
+ Show all quotes
I dont think Nolan was in a no win situation, he was just too impatient, or ignorant about how to develop a young qb...Nolan picked the Colts, then undefeated and thought to be the best team in the nfl, for Smith's 1st start....that is not the way to build the confidence of a young qb....Bill Walsh didnt throw Montana directly into the starting lineup, indeed early on he would put Montana in near the red zone so Montana could have a chance for success and build some confidence

C'mon, you don't say, hey they look easy enough you think you can handle it Alex. Btw, we went on a 3 game losing streak before he threw in Smith and we all knew Rattay wasn't the answer anyway.

what should have been more important to nolan, trying to compete in a game vs an undefeated colts, with a squad that was 2-14 the year before, or the long term development of a qb you expended the #1 pick on and gave around $30 million guaranteed monet to?

Umm wasn't Nolan trying to do that when he put in Alex Smith....trying to compete???

Sheesh some of you act as if Smith was a 7th round pick that had to be babied. You people seem to forget that Nolan took over a team that had little to no talent. Was it also his fault, his prized free agent LT was made of glass.
Jul 13, 2011 at 8:20 AM
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
+ Show all quotes
C'mon, you don't say, hey they look easy enough you think you can handle it Alex. Btw, we went on a 3 game losing streak before he threw in Smith and we all knew Rattay wasn't the answer anyway.

what should have been more important to nolan, trying to compete in a game vs an undefeated colts, with a squad that was 2-14 the year before, or the long term development of a qb you expended the #1 pick on and gave around $30 million guaranteed monet to?

Umm wasn't Nolan trying to do that when he put in Alex Smith....trying to compete???

Sheesh some of you act as if Smith was a 7th round pick that had to be babied. You people seem to forget that Nolan took over a team that had little to no talent. Was it also his fault, his prized free agent LT was made of glass.

I really don`t see an issue with Nolan starting Smith....I mean, he`s your #1 overall pick. That was a good time to see what you had in a QB. Most #1 picks lately have been starting day 1. Alex started later than that.

Nolan was a decent coach IMO, he just didn't have much talent around him. If he hit a homerun with Alex, he'd probably still be coaching here.
Jul 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by hofer36:
+ Show all quotes
what should have been more important to nolan, trying to compete in a game vs an undefeated colts, with a squad that was 2-14 the year before, or the long term development of a qb you expended the #1 pick on and gave around $30 million guaranteed monet to?

Umm wasn't Nolan trying to do that when he put in Alex Smith....trying to compete???

Sheesh some of you act as if Smith was a 7th round pick that had to be babied. You people seem to forget that Nolan took over a team that had little to no talent. Was it also his fault, his prized free agent LT was made of glass.

I really don`t see an issue with Nolan starting Smith....I mean, he`s your #1 overall pick. That was a good time to see what you had in a QB. Most #1 picks lately have been starting day 1. Alex started later than that.

Nolan was a decent coach IMO, he just didn't have much talent around him. If he hit a homerun with Alex, he'd probably still be coaching here.

Decent? lol
Jul 13, 2011 at 8:16 PM
Regarding Smith and Nolan. I agree he should have been held back longer, but it's just not how the league works. Bradford, Ryan, Freeman, Sanchez, Claussen, Stafford every qb with the exception of Rodgers was starting year 1. Point being unless you have a winning qb already on the roster your number will be called upon before you're ready. Grow from your mistakes.

There's a reason why those rookie qbs get so much money. They're expected to be mentally tough.
Jul 14, 2011 at 2:44 AM
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Regarding Smith and Nolan. I agree he should have been held back longer, but it's just not how the league works. Bradford, Ryan, Freeman, Sanchez, Claussen, Stafford every qb with the exception of Rodgers was starting year 1. Point being unless you have a winning qb already on the roster your number will be called upon before you're ready. Grow from your mistakes.

There's a reason why those rookie qbs get so much money. They're expected to be mentally tough.

True but none of them where put into a worse situation than Alex. Bradford might have had the least to work with next to Smith but the rest had decent teams/pieces around them (coaches and players).

As for the question I wouldn't mind if we took him and we might end up with a Brees/Rivers situation. Trade one of them away. Otherwise, I hold him for ransom and get 3 first rounders back for him. Either way there is like a 1% chance we end up with the 1st pick. Knock on Wood
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 14, 2011 at 2:46 AM ]
Jul 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Regarding Smith and Nolan. I agree he should have been held back longer, but it's just not how the league works. Bradford, Ryan, Freeman, Sanchez, Claussen, Stafford every qb with the exception of Rodgers was starting year 1. Point being unless you have a winning qb already on the roster your number will be called upon before you're ready. Grow from your mistakes.

There's a reason why those rookie qbs get so much money. They're expected to be mentally tough.

True but none of them where put into a worse situation than Alex. Bradford might have had the least to work with next to Smith but the rest had decent teams/pieces around them (coaches and players).

As for the question I wouldn't mind if we took him and we might end up with a Brees/Rivers situation. Trade one of them away. Otherwise, I hold him for ransom and get 3 first rounders back for him. Either way there is like a 1% chance we end up with the 1st pick. Knock on Wood

They are were more prepared than Alex Smith coming out. Truth be told Alex was the greenest project ever taken at the number 1 spot. 20 years old, gimmick offense.

As far as talent goes yeah he had it worse, but things didn't fall apart with Nolan and Smith because of his rookie year. Alex grew just fine in year 2. The problem was Turner leaving, Nolan promoting an idiot, mishandling his injury, then throwing him under the bus afterwards. Year 3 is what killed Alex and Nolan here. Up until that point both of them had promise.

All top picks walk into a bad situation and are thrown into the fire too early. They all make mistakes early on. Yeah Alex's situation was the worse outside of expansion teams, but he did he get over fairly quickly only to have the rug pulled from underneath him.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Jul 14, 2011 at 5:04 AM ]
Jul 16, 2011 at 5:45 PM
Yeah, got to take Luck if we are in a position to take him in next years draft. CK was the 6th qb off the board in this years draft and was a reach by most analysts and talking heads.

But I am optimistic that we won't be picking in the first 20 picks of the draft
Jul 16, 2011 at 8:54 PM
I dont believe so.... I dont think that Harbaugh thinks he needs him.
Jul 17, 2011 at 6:57 PM
I wouldn't worry about this scenerio one bit. It's a win any way you slice it.


1. Harbaugh knows Luck well. If he picks Luck after selecting Kaep the year before it's because he really believe he is the next great thing.

2. If he doesn't think that highly of Luck, we'll still get a truck load from some poor sucker.

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