Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by 5280High:
The WR & TE argument is allot like the 3-4, or 4-3 defense argument... teams will target different players based on their scheme. Superbowl is a great example... one offense was built around its wide receivers, the other around its tight ends but both were effective throughout the season cause they were catered to their players strengths.

Right now this offense (at least IMO) is better suited for drafting a playmaker at TE over WR because it is a WCO based power scheme and it's ran by a QB who favors high percentage short-to-intermediate throws over highrisk-high reward throws. Not saying the WR position doesnt need an massive upgrade since it clearly does, but a 1st round TE will make a greater impact than a 1st round WR. What good is a 6'3 burner of a WR if only 1 or 2 downfield shots get called a game. Especially if the read isnt timely, cause the WR has already ran out of the QB's range unless its CK's 70 yard arm.

I look at Alex's tendency to throw high, the fact that he's shown a preference to go to his tight-ends over receivers, and the fact that the team lacked a big threat in the red-zone and I'd love to see another playmaking tight-end, a guy bigger, stronger, maybe not as athletic as VD, but a more natural pass-catcher, that way the two could complement each other well.


I think with that dominant 2nd TE, you'd see Harbaugh use the 2 TE formation even more often because of the matchup problems it would present for opposing defenses. Teams see 2 good WR's all the time, they prepare for it, they draft for it, how many can you say the same thing about when it comes to two good TE's???

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Isn't TE kind of the least of our worries??

Yes, but red-zone scoring and third down are among the top of that list, adding a monster receiver like Fleener clears that concern up pretty well.


Do you not think that having a 6'6" guy with great route-running and good hands, tremendous agility and leaping wouldn't help Alex out? Not to mention that Fleener comes from a pro-style offense.......namely Harbaugh's, so he's familiar with the system, he's played WR and TE, and at 6'6" 250 is expected to run the 40 between 4.5 and 4.6.


Plus Harbaugh LOVES his TE's, and Fleener is a guy that he recruited. He's also a guy that can go after some of the errant high passes that Alex makes and turn them into actual completion's and touchdown's. Having Fleener on the field at the same time as VD basically puts an end to anyone double-teaming VD, ever.


I see Fleener as a much more of a sure thing than any receiver available at 30. He can come in, is already familiar with the offense, will be ready to contribute from Game 1. He's also highly intelligent, a leader and the kind of guy that Harbaugh loves to go around. There's literally like 100 reasons why he would be a good draft pick for them, however the decision is going to up to Harbaugh and Baalke, whichever way they go, I'm sure it will be a good choice.

If he measures 6'6" 250 lbs. at the combine and runs between 4.5 - 4.6 you can rest assured he won't be sitting there available at #30. He'll be way gone by then. Especially after the NFL sees what New Orleans and the Patriots did with TE's in recent times. The NFL is a copycat league. SEE 6'6" PRODUCTIVE TE. GO GET 6'6" TE WHO WILL BE PRODUCTIVE.

I know. Sometimes the combine sucks because they hype a guy up so much. Who knows what will happen but they will make the Jimmy Grahm comparison for sure. I am ok if they trade up to get a wr or TE they really want. Last year, our biggest need was pass-rush and they filled that with the 1st pick and some D adjustments. I think they will do the same this year with our biggest need, which is playmakers for Alex to throw to. Picking 30 makes it difficult though. Once they decide who they like best for this offense (Blackmon, Floyd, Fleener, Wright, Quick, Randell, etc...) they just need to figure out the way to go and get them. It is still BPA situation, but it's BPA based on the guys that they like and will fit their mold.

The other plus is when Delanie Walker walks next year, and I don't see the 49ers offering him a big contract, now you're replacing the #3 TE with a guy like Byham or Reuland.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by sfout:
Other sane people!!!! I'm not alone!!!!

1. Orson Charles will perform real well and make a push to make people wonder who will be the best TE, I just think Fleener will win out because of his height, Allen is listed as 6-4 and Charles at 6-3 both could easily drop an inch and Fleener at 6-6 could still lose an inch still be 2 inches taller with a bigger wing span :/

2. Everyone is quick to point out that Janoris Jenkins shut down multiple 6-3 physical WRs in career which is a perfect example of the fact that we need as many mismatches on the field as possible.

I think Charles will dazzle at the combines and everyone will jump on his bandwagon. Mayock has him as his top TE, just ahead of Fleener and then Allen. Supposedly the guy is capable of running a 4.4. If so then that is great because that will give teams another target to focus on instead of Fleener. Charles is a smaller, athletic tight-end, kind of an athletic freak along the lines of VD.

If it comes to it and Fleener gets drafted before the 49ers have a shot at him, I'm really starting to warm up to Ladarius Green who alas is also beginning to move up the draft boards. He could be had with the 49ers 2nd round pick, he's not as polished as Fleener, nor as good a blocker, but he's still got the size(6'6" or 6'5" depending on who you believe) and has terrific athletic ability with good hands. In either case, he would be a nice consolation prize.

2. Exactly. I feel like some people are being so short-sighted, obsessed with a receiver, when adding another receiver is absolutely no guarantee of major improvement in the red-zone. It'll help, but I think a 2nd dominant tight-end running around makes for a much bigger mismatch. A lot of teams have 2 good CB's, there's very few that shutdown two dominant tight-ends, especially when one of them is VD, who's the fastest TE in football. He showed what a scary matchup he can be at WR, put a big, physical TE with good hands in the middle of the field and you can mix in runs or passes and totally have the defense off balance.

People are too short sighted and obsessed with WR. A 6'6" TE with long arms and great hands helps us much more in the redzone and on 3rd downs. 2 things we struggle with. In fact in can be argued if he runs well we should consider trading up for him. Allow Delanie to seek a trade. Go VD and Fleener. VD won't get the double teams anymore. Making him incredibly dangerous. If he does go all day to Fleener. We emphasize a 2 TE offense a lot. He fits with us big time.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I know. Sometimes the combine sucks because they hype a guy up so much. Who knows what will happen but they will make the Jimmy Grahm comparison for sure. I am ok if they trade up to get a wr or TE they really want. Last year, our biggest need was pass-rush and they filled that with the 1st pick and some D adjustments. I think they will do the same this year with our biggest need, which is playmakers for Alex to throw to. Picking 30 makes it difficult though. Once they decide who they like best for this offense (Blackmon, Floyd, Fleener, Wright, Quick, Randell, etc...) they just need to figure out the way to go and get them. It is still BPA situation, but it's BPA based on the guys that they like and will fit their mold.

I hope Charles and Allen tear s**t up at the combine, put up absolutely ridiculous numbers and then Fleener falls in other people's minds because Harbaugh doesn't need the combines to analyze the guy, he recruited him, he coached him, he knows what the guy can do and the skills he can bring to this offense.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
People are too short sighted and obsessed with WR. A 6'6" TE with long arms and great hands helps us much more in the redzone and on 3rd downs. 2 things we struggle with. In fact in can be argued if he runs well we should consider trading up for him. Allow Delanie to seek a trade. Go VD and Fleener. VD won't get the double teams anymore. Making him incredibly dangerous. If he does go all day to Fleener. We emphasize a 2 TE offense a lot. He fits with us big time.

People are incredibly dogmatic about having a TE, 2 WR, a RB and a FB at the same time, like there's no other possibility that can work. If Drew Brees is your QB, hell, with the way he consistently put the ball in the tightest of windows, it doesn't matter who the hell your WR's are and you can go with 1 TE or no TE's and be fine.

When Alex Smith is your QB and he's prone to getting happy feet and making passes that are somewhat too high or too far to the outside, it helps to have a monster of a guy at 6'6" with good hands and agility to be able to corral those awkward passes in. Alex has shown a preference for tight-ends, so why not cater to that. The biggest advantage with Fleener is that the double-teams on VD stop. You can't double-team VD and then have Fleener run wild through the middle of the field or end up exposing the other cornerback against Crabtree, Morgan or a free agent such as Garcon.

Plus now teams have to worry about both VD and Fleener going downfield, they'll have to approach with their nickel package more often, that kills the 8 man boxes that this team so often sees, now you have Gore and Hunter with greater running opportunities.


It's just a total win-win-win-win every single way you look at it. In this offense Fleener wouldn't be a backup, he'd be a starter, the 2 TE formation would be used even more often, teams, especially in the division would struggle to defend it. Do you think Arizona could blitz nearly as frequently if they've got VD and Fleener going out on routes? Hell no, now you've got take your pass-rush strength and put it in coverage. Same goes for Seattle.

Originally posted by sfout:

Originally posted by 5280High:
The WR & TE argument is allot like the 3-4, or 4-3 defense argument... teams will target different players based on their scheme. Superbowl is a great example... one offense was built around its wide receivers, the other around its tight ends but both were effective throughout the season cause they were catered to their players strengths.

Right now this offense (at least IMO) is better suited for drafting a playmaker at TE over WR because it is a WCO based power scheme and it's ran by a QB who favors high percentage short-to-intermediate throws over highrisk-high reward throws. Not saying the WR position doesnt need an massive upgrade since it clearly does, but a 1st round TE will make a greater impact than a 1st round WR. What good is a 6'3 burner of a WR if only 1 or 2 downfield shots get called a game. Especially if the read isnt timely, cause the WR has already ran out of the QB's range unless its CK's 70 yard arm.

spot on mang.

This x10. Man you guys are amking me happy today. If they don't go this route, it's fine, but man does it make sense. Wr's does need attention but there is more value with a 2nd TE.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
fleener + vincent jackson + 2nd round WR

Kind of big on Garcon=cheaper, younger, less drama prone. He's got the speed to be a decent deep threat and is a nice playmaker. The big receivers I really like are Streeter, Hill and McNutt.


If the 49ers can come away with Garcon, re-sign Morgan, draft Fleener or Green and one of the 3 aforementioned receivers, I'm going to be psyched as all hell for the season to start.

i like garcon as well plus he's cheaper

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by sfout:
Other sane people!!!! I'm not alone!!!!

1. Orson Charles will perform real well and make a push to make people wonder who will be the best TE, I just think Fleener will win out because of his height, Allen is listed as 6-4 and Charles at 6-3 both could easily drop an inch and Fleener at 6-6 could still lose an inch still be 2 inches taller with a bigger wing span :/

2. Everyone is quick to point out that Janoris Jenkins shut down multiple 6-3 physical WRs in career which is a perfect example of the fact that we need as many mismatches on the field as possible.

I think Charles will dazzle at the combines and everyone will jump on his bandwagon. Mayock has him as his top TE, just ahead of Fleener and then Allen. Supposedly the guy is capable of running a 4.4. If so then that is great because that will give teams another target to focus on instead of Fleener. Charles is a smaller, athletic tight-end, kind of an athletic freak along the lines of VD.

If it comes to it and Fleener gets drafted before the 49ers have a shot at him, I'm really starting to warm up to Ladarius Green who alas is also beginning to move up the draft boards. He could be had with the 49ers 2nd round pick, he's not as polished as Fleener, nor as good a blocker, but he's still got the size(6'6" or 6'5" depending on who you believe) and has terrific athletic ability with good hands. In either case, he would be a nice consolation prize.

2. Exactly. I feel like some people are being so short-sighted, obsessed with a receiver, when adding another receiver is absolutely no guarantee of major improvement in the red-zone. It'll help, but I think a 2nd dominant tight-end running around makes for a much bigger mismatch. A lot of teams have 2 good CB's, there's very few that shutdown two dominant tight-ends, especially when one of them is VD, who's the fastest TE in football. He showed what a scary matchup he can be at WR, put a big, physical TE with good hands in the middle of the field and you can mix in runs or passes and totally have the defense off balance.

People are too short sighted and obsessed with WR. A 6'6" TE with long arms and great hands helps us much more in the redzone and on 3rd downs. 2 things we struggle with. In fact in can be argued if he runs well we should consider trading up for him. Allow Delanie to seek a trade. Go VD and Fleener. VD won't get the double teams anymore. Making him incredibly dangerous. If he does go all day to Fleener. We emphasize a 2 TE offense a lot. He fits with us big time.

I think I am justing going to stay on this thread for next couple of days. People on this thread are actually thinking about our offense rather then going "#1 RECEIVER! DRAFT FLOYD! DRAFT SANU! DRAFT HILL!" etc.

I am really excited about the TE's next year with the idea of drafting Fleener, if we did trade Walker and brought up Reuland our TE group would be mean as hell. VD, Fleener, Reuland!

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
People are too short sighted and obsessed with WR. A 6'6" TE with long arms and great hands helps us much more in the redzone and on 3rd downs. 2 things we struggle with. In fact in can be argued if he runs well we should consider trading up for him. Allow Delanie to seek a trade. Go VD and Fleener. VD won't get the double teams anymore. Making him incredibly dangerous. If he does go all day to Fleener. We emphasize a 2 TE offense a lot. He fits with us big time.

People are incredibly dogmatic about having a TE, 2 WR, a RB and a FB at the same time, like there's no other possibility that can work. If Drew Brees is your QB, hell, with the way he consistently put the ball in the tightest of windows, it doesn't matter who the hell your WR's are and you can go with 1 TE or no TE's and be fine.

When Alex Smith is your QB and he's prone to getting happy feet and making passes that are somewhat too high or too far to the outside, it helps to have a monster of a guy at 6'6" with good hands and agility to be able to corral those awkward passes in. Alex has shown a preference for tight-ends, so why not cater to that. The biggest advantage with Fleener is that the double-teams on VD stop. You can't double-team VD and then have Fleener run wild through the middle of the field or end up exposing the other cornerback against Crabtree, Morgan or a free agent such as Garcon.

Plus now teams have to worry about both VD and Fleener going downfield, they'll have to approach with their nickel package more often, that kills the 8 man boxes that this team so often sees, now you have Gore and Hunter with greater running opportunities.


It's just a total win-win-win-win every single way you look at it. In this offense Fleener wouldn't be a backup, he'd be a starter, the 2 TE formation would be used even more often, teams, especially in the division would struggle to defend it. Do you think Arizona could blitz nearly as frequently if they've got VD and Fleener going out on routes? Hell no, now you've got take your pass-rush strength and put it in coverage. Same goes for Seattle.

These are my thoughts exactly. There is no WR available at 30 who is a difference maker. But Fleener is. And he's huge, with long arms, great hands and guess what...knows Harbaugh's system inside and out already as a rookie. No small thing. He would be a starter for sure. He's way better than Delanie. His reach is so much greater. His hands are better.

Alex does love TE's. And he has shown that to big guys who get separation he will throw it. He trusts those guys more. A 2 TE set with Fleener and VD would be our ideal scenario. I think it's better than getting a WR really.

If he runs fast I would even be ok with trading up for him. Why would you not want a 6'6" target with great hands who can run fast and pair with VD?

Originally posted by sfout:
I think I am justing going to stay on this thread for next couple of days. People on this thread are actually thinking about our offense rather then going "#1 RECEIVER! DRAFT FLOYD! DRAFT SANU! DRAFT HILL!" etc.

I am really excited about the TE's next year with the idea of drafting Fleener, if we did trade Walker and brought up Reuland our TE group would be mean as hell. VD, Fleener, Reuland!

I'd prefer to keep Walker. Hell this team was in 3 TE formations enough this year that at the #3 spot, Walker creates major headaches for the defense.


For example, you go with VD, put him at WR on one side, have Fleener at TE, Walker at TE/FB, Crabtree at WR and Gore at RB.....that's a hell of a difficult lineup to stop.

On one side you've got a CB going one on one against a guy who's bigger AND faster, across the middle you've got Fleener who's bigger than any safety and faster than most linebackers, on the other side you've got Crabtree, and then there's the possibility of Walker going out on a route as well.....what do you do?


Honestly, how do you defend that without moving into a nickel package, even then you've got the tremendous size of Fleener and the speed of VD as major mismatches.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by sfout:
I think I am justing going to stay on this thread for next couple of days. People on this thread are actually thinking about our offense rather then going "#1 RECEIVER! DRAFT FLOYD! DRAFT SANU! DRAFT HILL!" etc.

I am really excited about the TE's next year with the idea of drafting Fleener, if we did trade Walker and brought up Reuland our TE group would be mean as hell. VD, Fleener, Reuland!

I'd prefer to keep Walker. Hell this team was in 3 TE formations enough this year that at the #3 spot, Walker creates major headaches for the defense.


For example, you go with VD, put him at WR on one side, have Fleener at TE, Walker at TE/FB, Crabtree at WR and Gore at RB.....that's a hell of a difficult lineup to stop.

On one side you've got a CB going one on one against a guy who's bigger AND faster, across the middle you've got Fleener who's bigger than any safety and faster than most linebackers, on the other side you've got Crabtree, and then there's the possibility of Walker going out on a route as well.....what do you do?


Honestly, how do you defend that without moving into a nickel package, even then you've got the tremendous size of Fleener and the speed of VD as major mismatches.

Super Bowl.....

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by sfout:
I think I am justing going to stay on this thread for next couple of days. People on this thread are actually thinking about our offense rather then going "#1 RECEIVER! DRAFT FLOYD! DRAFT SANU! DRAFT HILL!" etc.

I am really excited about the TE's next year with the idea of drafting Fleener, if we did trade Walker and brought up Reuland our TE group would be mean as hell. VD, Fleener, Reuland!

I'd prefer to keep Walker. Hell this team was in 3 TE formations enough this year that at the #3 spot, Walker creates major headaches for the defense.


For example, you go with VD, put him at WR on one side, have Fleener at TE, Walker at TE/FB, Crabtree at WR and Gore at RB.....that's a hell of a difficult lineup to stop.

On one side you've got a CB going one on one against a guy who's bigger AND faster, across the middle you've got Fleener who's bigger than any safety and faster than most linebackers, on the other side you've got Crabtree, and then there's the possibility of Walker going out on a route as well.....what do you do?


Honestly, how do you defend that without moving into a nickel package, even then you've got the tremendous size of Fleener and the speed of VD as major mismatches.

Yea Walker is a stud so no issues with him I'm just thinking hypothetically. I really hope we get a TE and really go to the 2TE sets this year.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
These are my thoughts exactly. There is no WR available at 30 who is a difference maker. But Fleener is. And he's huge, with long arms, great hands and guess what...knows Harbaugh's system inside and out already as a rookie. No small thing. He would be a starter for sure. He's way better than Delanie. His reach is so much greater. His hands are better.

Alex does love TE's. And he has shown that to big guys who get separation he will throw it. He trusts those guys more. A 2 TE set with Fleener and VD would be our ideal scenario. I think it's better than getting a WR really.

If he runs fast I would even be ok with trading up for him. Why would you not want a 6'6" target with great hands who can run fast and pair with VD?

I'm not against drafting a WR, I just think the best VALUE in this draft is between round 2 and 4. There's a much bigger difference between Fleener and the other TE's available later in the draft than there is between the WR's available at 30 and the guys available 2 rounds later. The depth in this draft of WR's in the middle rounds is incredible. I feel like there's going to be major gem's plucked from those rounds that people will look back a few years from now and say "what the hell were we thinking, how'd we miss on those guys?"


Streeter, Hill, McNutt, Quick, Benford, Wright, Jones......some of these guys are going to be stars, I trust that the scouting department, Harbaugh, Baalke.....can make the right choices on one of these guys who might be raw, but have tremendous potential to be great receivers in this league.


On the other hand, some of the earlier guys scare the hell out of me. I think Blackmon and Wright will be stars in the NFL but guys like Floyd, Jeffery, Criner....could be stars just as easily as they could be major busts, even Sanu I'm iffy on given the questions of him being able to create enough separation. Randel is one I'd be very happy with at 30, but if he runs a fast 40 as expected, he'll most likely be gone before the 49ers even have a chance to snag him.



If the 49ers don't get Fleener, I'd be happy going with Randle in the 1st round, Green in the 2nd and then using the rest of the draft to address depth at CB/OLB/OG.....maybe even another WR in round 6 or 7, a guy like Derek Moye of PSU possibly.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
These are my thoughts exactly. There is no WR available at 30 who is a difference maker. But Fleener is. And he's huge, with long arms, great hands and guess what...knows Harbaugh's system inside and out already as a rookie. No small thing. He would be a starter for sure. He's way better than Delanie. His reach is so much greater. His hands are better.

Alex does love TE's. And he has shown that to big guys who get separation he will throw it. He trusts those guys more. A 2 TE set with Fleener and VD would be our ideal scenario. I think it's better than getting a WR really.

If he runs fast I would even be ok with trading up for him. Why would you not want a 6'6" target with great hands who can run fast and pair with VD?

I'm not against drafting a WR, I just think the best VALUE in this draft is between round 2 and 4. There's a much bigger difference between Fleener and the other TE's available later in the draft than there is between the WR's available at 30 and the guys available 2 rounds later. The depth in this draft of WR's in the middle rounds is incredible. I feel like there's going to be major gem's plucked from those rounds that people will look back a few years from now and say "what the hell were we thinking, how'd we miss on those guys?"


Streeter, Hill, McNutt, Quick, Benford, Wright, Jones......some of these guys are going to be stars, I trust that the scouting department, Harbaugh, Baalke.....can make the right choices on one of these guys who might be raw, but have tremendous potential to be great receivers in this league.


On the other hand, some of the earlier guys scare the hell out of me. I think Blackmon and Wright will be stars in the NFL but guys like Floyd, Jeffery, Criner....could be stars just as easily as they could be major busts, even Sanu I'm iffy on given the questions of him being able to create enough separation. Randel is one I'd be very happy with at 30, but if he runs a fast 40 as expected, he'll most likely be gone before the 49ers even have a chance to snag him.



If the 49ers don't get Fleener, I'd be happy going with Randle in the 1st round, Green in the 2nd and then using the rest of the draft to address depth at CB/OLB/OG.....maybe even another WR in round 6 or 7, a guy like Derek Moye of PSU possibly.

I'd rather go like this too.

1) Fleener.
2 - 4) WR in there somewhere. More value in a deep WR draft. And the top tier ones are off the board.

FA: I'd be on the Garcon wagon too if we get him. He's pretty fast and has pretty good hands. He's way cheaper than the top tier guys. Of course Vincent Jackson if we can get him. There will be a lot of competition for that guy though.

Imagine Fleener, VD, Vincent Jackson, Crabtree and Gore.....