Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I'd rather go like this too.

1) Fleener.
2 - 4) WR in there somewhere. More value in a deep WR draft. And the top tier ones are off the board.

FA: I'd be on the Garcon wagon too if we get him. He's pretty fast and has pretty good hands. He's way cheaper than the top tier guys. Of course Vincent Jackson if we can get him. There will be a lot of competition for that guy though.

Imagine Fleener, VD, Vincent Jackson, Crabtree and Gore.....

If Smith f**ks up with that group, its Kaepernick time the following season.

Are you kidding me? We are not going to draft a 2nd tight end with our first pick. Did Harbaugh pick up anybody from Stanford last year? What makes you think he likes Fleener as a top NFL prospect. In Order of needs the list looks somewhat like: WR, Corner and OLB if we lose either Rogers or Brooks, RG(terrible play from this position last year.) D-line depth at all positions ( an injury away from looking tops in the NFL to being middle of the pack) Safety help (Goldson might not come back, a bit of depth behind him but those guys aren't nearly as talented) RB depth ( I think we get rid of anthony dixon and Hunter is not an every down guy if Gore were to miss time). I've listed all the positions I would like adressed before backup TE.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I'd rather go like this too.

1) Fleener.
2 - 4) WR in there somewhere. More value in a deep WR draft. And the top tier ones are off the board.

FA: I'd be on the Garcon wagon too if we get him. He's pretty fast and has pretty good hands. He's way cheaper than the top tier guys. Of course Vincent Jackson if we can get him. There will be a lot of competition for that guy though.

Imagine Fleener, VD, Vincent Jackson, Crabtree and Gore.....

If Smith f**ks up with that group, its Kaepernick time the following season.

I think Alex could get it done with that. Provided RG holds out and we don't have to put Chilo in....

Originally posted by BillWalsh:
Are you kidding me? We are not going to draft a 2nd tight end with our first pick. Did Harbaugh pick up anybody from Stanford last year? What makes you think he likes Fleener as a top NFL prospect. In Order of needs the list looks somewhat like: WR, Corner and OLB if we lose either Rogers or Brooks, RG(terrible play from this position last year.) D-line depth at all positions ( an injury away from looking tops in the NFL to being middle of the pack) Safety help (Goldson might not come back, a bit of depth behind him but those guys aren't nearly as talented) RB depth ( I think we get rid of anthony dixon and Hunter is not an every down guy if Gore were to miss time). I've listed all the positions I would like adressed before backup TE.

How is WR a bigger need than TE if the TE gives you the better chance of scoring touchdowns and putting the defense in a bad position???


49ers have enough cap space to get virtually all of their free agents back, if Brooks walks, that changes things, if not, then a ready-to-play TE like Fleener is a great way to go, especially considering he already knows the offense and all the aforementioned reasons why it would be a great selection. Also, in this offense, the "backup TE" really isn't a backup. Its conceivable that a guy like Fleener could get more snaps than your #2 or #3 receiver even.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
How is WR a bigger need than TE if the TE gives you the better chance of scoring touchdowns and putting the defense in a bad position???


49ers have enough cap space to get virtually all of their free agents back, if Brooks walks, that changes things, if not, then a ready-to-play TE like Fleener is a great way to go, especially considering he already knows the offense and all the aforementioned reasons why it would be a great selection. Also, in this offense, the "backup TE" really isn't a backup. Its conceivable that a guy like Fleener could get more snaps than your #2 or #3 receiver even.

Everything else you brought up can be addressed easily in later rounds. This draft is deep in CB's, there will be some nice 3-4 DE prospects available late, and its extremely weak in safety depth.


You can easily go like the following


1-Fleener
2-CB or WR
3-WR or CB
4-OLB(if Brooks stays)
5-3-4 DE/OG
6-OG/3-4 DE/WR
7-WR/RB

Now you've covered all your major bases, added depth and made this offense a lot more dangerous in the interim.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

These are my thoughts exactly. There is no WR available at 30 who is a difference maker. But Fleener is. And he's huge, with long arms, great hands and guess what...knows Harbaugh's system inside and out already as a rookie. No small thing. He would be a starter for sure. He's way better than Delanie. His reach is so much greater. His hands are better.

Alex does love TE's. And he has shown that to big guys who get separation he will throw it. He trusts those guys more. A 2 TE set with Fleener and VD would be our ideal scenario. I think it's better than getting a WR really.

If he runs fast I would even be ok with trading up for him. Why would you not want a 6'6" target with great hands who can run fast and pair with VD?

I'm not against drafting a WR, I just think the best VALUE in this draft is between round 2 and 4. There's a much bigger difference between Fleener and the other TE's available later in the draft than there is between the WR's available at 30 and the guys available 2 rounds later. The depth in this draft of WR's in the middle rounds is incredible. I feel like there's going to be major gem's plucked from those rounds that people will look back a few years from now and say "what the hell were we thinking, how'd we miss on those guys?"


Streeter, Hill, McNutt, Quick, Benford, Wright, Jones......some of these guys are going to be stars, I trust that the scouting department, Harbaugh, Baalke.....can make the right choices on one of these guys who might be raw, but have tremendous potential to be great receivers in this league.


On the other hand, some of the earlier guys scare the hell out of me. I think Blackmon and Wright will be stars in the NFL but guys like Floyd, Jeffery, Criner....could be stars just as easily as they could be major busts, even Sanu I'm iffy on given the questions of him being able to create enough separation. Randel is one I'd be very happy with at 30, but if he runs a fast 40 as expected, he'll most likely be gone before the 49ers even have a chance to snag him.



If the 49ers don't get Fleener, I'd be happy going with Randle in the 1st round, Green in the 2nd and then using the rest of the draft to address depth at CB/OLB/OG.....maybe even another WR in round 6 or 7, a guy like Derek Moye of PSU possibly.

I'd rather go like this too.

1) Fleener.
2 - 4) WR in there somewhere. More value in a deep WR draft. And the top tier ones are off the board.

FA: I'd be on the Garcon wagon too if we get him. He's pretty fast and has pretty good hands. He's way cheaper than the top tier guys. Of course Vincent Jackson if we can get him. There will be a lot of competition for that guy though.

Imagine Fleener, VD, Vincent Jackson, Crabtree and Gore.....

I'd be f**king pumped if we got both Fleener and Jackson our offense would be a mismatch nightmare for defenses.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I'd rather go like this too.

1) Fleener.
2 - 4) WR in there somewhere. More value in a deep WR draft. And the top tier ones are off the board.

FA: I'd be on the Garcon wagon too if we get him. He's pretty fast and has pretty good hands. He's way cheaper than the top tier guys. Of course Vincent Jackson if we can get him. There will be a lot of competition for that guy though.

Imagine Fleener, VD, Vincent Jackson, Crabtree and Gore.....

If Smith f**ks up with that group, its Kaepernick time the following season.

I think Alex could get it done with that. Provided RG holds out and we don't have to put Chilo in....

Regardless without a RG if he don't get it done with that lineup HES DONE! No team is perfect so he adjust and makes it happen NO EXCUSES!

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by BillWalsh:
Are you kidding me? We are not going to draft a 2nd tight end with our first pick. Did Harbaugh pick up anybody from Stanford last year? What makes you think he likes Fleener as a top NFL prospect. In Order of needs the list looks somewhat like: WR, Corner and OLB if we lose either Rogers or Brooks, RG(terrible play from this position last year.) D-line depth at all positions ( an injury away from looking tops in the NFL to being middle of the pack) Safety help (Goldson might not come back, a bit of depth behind him but those guys aren't nearly as talented) RB depth ( I think we get rid of anthony dixon and Hunter is not an every down guy if Gore were to miss time). I've listed all the positions I would like adressed before backup TE.

How is WR a bigger need than TE if the TE gives you the better chance of scoring touchdowns and putting the defense in a bad position???


49ers have enough cap space to get virtually all of their free agents back, if Brooks walks, that changes things, if not, then a ready-to-play TE like Fleener is a great way to go, especially considering he already knows the offense and all the aforementioned reasons why it would be a great selection. Also, in this offense, the "backup TE" really isn't a backup. Its conceivable that a guy like Fleener could get more snaps than your #2 or #3 receiver even.

Phoenix! My man! I took a break from the Fleener fight for a few days to come back and see that you have rallied the troops! Nice work; you should be proud of that dogged determination. Yeah, Alex's best deep throws are between the numbers, so we get more big-play potential out of a TE, plus we get a better redzone threat out of a TE, not to mention that we set up run-pass missmatches in the defense with a dangerous 2nd TE. Well played, sir

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Regardless without a RG if he don't get it done with that lineup HES DONE! No team is perfect so he adjust and makes it happen NO EXCUSES!

That's where re-signing Snyder comes in.


Also, as far as depth, remember that one angry motherf**ker they drafted last year who was so impressive in the pre-season? Daniel Kilgore. He's the future starter at RG, will provide nice depth this year, they can find additional depth later on in the draft or through a low-cost free agent.


Plus you also have Person who can play OG/OT and Hall and Beeler on the practice squad. Don't foresee OL being a huge problem for this team.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
That's where re-signing Snyder comes in.


Also, as far as depth, remember that one angry motherf**ker they drafted last year who was so impressive in the pre-season? Daniel Kilgore. He's the future starter at RG, will provide nice depth this year, they can find additional depth later on in the draft or through a low-cost free agent.


Plus you also have Person who can play OG/OT and Hall and Beeler on the practice squad. Don't foresee OL being a huge problem for this team.

I really liked Kilgore. He seems to have a handle on that balance necessary playing angry and not getting flagged for it. I don't have an opinion on Person yet.

Fine I'm I'm

Originally posted by BillWalsh:
Are you kidding me? We are not going to draft a 2nd tight end with our first pick. Did Harbaugh pick up anybody from Stanford last year? What makes you think he likes Fleener as a top NFL prospect. In Order of needs the list looks somewhat like: WR, Corner and OLB if we lose either Rogers or Brooks, RG(terrible play from this position last year.) D-line depth at all positions ( an injury away from looking tops in the NFL to being middle of the pack) Safety help (Goldson might not come back, a bit of depth behind him but those guys aren't nearly as talented) RB depth ( I think we get rid of anthony dixon and Hunter is not an every down guy if Gore were to miss time). I've listed all the positions I would like adressed before backup TE.

Is this the Real Bill Walsh back from the dead? Cause if it is, I will not argue with you! Although I would remind you that I am reading a book about your philosphies on footbal players and you understood the how players use their bodies and you plugged in because they created great opportunities on the field. Fleener is 6'6 and runs just as fast as most wr's, which is supposedly our #1 need.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
How is WR a bigger need than TE if the TE gives you the better chance of scoring touchdowns and putting the defense in a bad position???


49ers have enough cap space to get virtually all of their free agents back, if Brooks walks, that changes things, if not, then a ready-to-play TE like Fleener is a great way to go, especially considering he already knows the offense and all the aforementioned reasons why it would be a great selection. Also, in this offense, the "backup TE" really isn't a backup. Its conceivable that a guy like Fleener could get more snaps than your #2 or #3 receiver even.

Everything else you brought up can be addressed easily in later rounds. This draft is deep in CB's, there will be some nice 3-4 DE prospects available late, and its extremely weak in safety depth.


You can easily go like the following


1-Fleener
2-CB or WR
3-WR or CB
4-OLB(if Brooks stays)
5-3-4 DE/OG
6-OG/3-4 DE/WR
7-WR/RB

Now you've covered all your major bases, added depth and made this offense a lot more dangerous in the interim.

Cool

Great draft.

Of course, you got me at Fleener.

Originally posted by BillWalsh:
Are you kidding me? We are not going to draft a 2nd tight end with our first pick. Did Harbaugh pick up anybody from Stanford last year? What makes you think he likes Fleener as a top NFL prospect. In Order of needs the list looks somewhat like: WR, Corner and OLB if we lose either Rogers or Brooks, RG(terrible play from this position last year.) D-line depth at all positions ( an injury away from looking tops in the NFL to being middle of the pack) Safety help (Goldson might not come back, a bit of depth behind him but those guys aren't nearly as talented) RB depth ( I think we get rid of anthony dixon and Hunter is not an every down guy if Gore were to miss time). I've listed all the positions I would like adressed before backup TE.

Cant be the real BillWalsh cause this draft philosophy is based on need which has proven to be a horrible philosophy (objectively speaking, not meaning to attack your views on needs in anyway). Addressing your list of needs one by one in terms of the 1st round pick...

WR- the value will not be there at 30, that simple.. call him a backup TE if you want but I'll take a 6'6, 255 pnd TE/WR who blocks and runs a 4.5, over any WR projected to be available at our pick.
RG/OL depth - the play of snyder was decent but leaves allot to be desired, however there are 3 current 1st round niner picks already on the line and all of them came before the rookie wage cap (and Staley got extended)... another 1st round pick would be too big of an investment in one position group.
Corner/Safety - Goldson will probly be franchised, and we have the right to match any offer on Spillman so some depth is there for now. Rogers wants to be back, and we have the room to bring him back. If a player like Jenkins, Barron or Kirkpatrick falls in our laps, then I agree maybe Fleener isnt our best option at that pick.. but that is a monumental "if" at this point.
RB - Not gonna draft a RB in the 1st round, the only 1st round RB imo is Richardson who will be gone anyways.
D-line - This is a bit more possible, especially if the top guy on Baalke's board is a DE/DT. But RJF filled in very well when given opportunities at both the DE and DT spots. Dobbs while not proven during the season, looked like a beast in preseason and will only get better, and the remaining depth (Tukuafu & Williams) will continue to progress or get replaced by new faces. But remember that this team sacrificed Phillip Adams and gave an extra roster spot to this group inorder to keep Dobbs, Tukuafu and Williams from hitting the waiver wire so they apparently like what they see.
OLB - Moreso than with the D-line, this is the other most likely position to get filled at the 30 spot. A guy like Vinny Curry could be available and would be a toss up with Fleener, but if Ingram or Upshaw somehow fall this far, its a no brainer of a pick.

Also, Harbaugh may not have "drafted" anyone from Stanford last year... but they did put 3 cardinals on the practice squad pretty quickly after the draft.

Originally posted by 5280High:

Also, Harbaugh may not have "drafted" anyone from Stanford last year... but they did put 3 cardinals on the practice squad pretty quickly after the draft.

They signed 3 to the practice squad and we know that they also tried for the fullback who got snagged by Cleveland and Doug Baldwin got snagged by Seattle. Don't know how many others Stanford guys were out there. We made 2 trade last year for Kaep and Kilgore and might not have had any more ammo left to make another trade. Sometimes you stand pat and see what happens. Either way, I think Harbaugh likes his Stanford guys. Some of the bigger guns are in the draft this year (Luck, Fleener, 2 O-lineman, etc...).

He may like some other plays over his own guys but I think he doesn't have to worry about trust or dependability with his guys.