Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Also, Harbaugh may not have "drafted" anyone from Stanford last year... but they did put 3 cardinals on the practice squad pretty quickly after the draft.

They signed 3 to the practice squad and we know that they also tried for the fullback who got snagged by Cleveland and Doug Baldwin got snagged by Seattle. Don't know how many others Stanford guys were out there. We made 2 trade last year for Kaep and Kilgore and might not have had any more ammo left to make another trade. Sometimes you stand pat and see what happens. Either way, I think Harbaugh likes his Stanford guys. Some of the bigger guns are in the draft this year (Luck, Fleener, 2 O-lineman, etc...).

He may like some other plays over his own guys but I think he doesn't have to worry about trust or dependability with his guys.

So true, you know anyone coming out of Stanford is gonna have smarts and limited baggage... idiots who cant follow the rules dont typically last there .

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by BillWalsh:
Are you kidding me? We are not going to draft a 2nd tight end with our first pick. Did Harbaugh pick up anybody from Stanford last year? What makes you think he likes Fleener as a top NFL prospect. In Order of needs the list looks somewhat like: WR, Corner and OLB if we lose either Rogers or Brooks, RG(terrible play from this position last year.) D-line depth at all positions ( an injury away from looking tops in the NFL to being middle of the pack) Safety help (Goldson might not come back, a bit of depth behind him but those guys aren't nearly as talented) RB depth ( I think we get rid of anthony dixon and Hunter is not an every down guy if Gore were to miss time). I've listed all the positions I would like adressed before backup TE.

Cant be the real BillWalsh cause this draft philosophy is based on need which has proven to be a horrible philosophy (objectively speaking, not meaning to attack your views on needs in anyway). Addressing your list of needs one by one in terms of the 1st round pick...

WR- the value will not be there at 30, that simple.. call him a backup TE if you want but I'll take a 6'6, 255 pnd TE/WR who blocks and runs a 4.5, over any WR projected to be available at our pick.
RG/OL depth - the play of snyder was decent but leaves allot to be desired, however there are 3 current 1st round niner picks already on the line and all of them came before the rookie wage cap (and Staley got extended)... another 1st round pick would be too big of an investment in one position group.
Corner/Safety - Goldson will probly be franchised, and we have the right to match any offer on Spillman so some depth is there for now. Rogers wants to be back, and we have the room to bring him back. If a player like Jenkins, Barron or Kirkpatrick falls in our laps, then I agree maybe Fleener isnt our best option at that pick.. but that is a monumental "if" at this point.
RB - Not gonna draft a RB in the 1st round, the only 1st round RB imo is Richardson who will be gone anyways.
D-line - This is a bit more possible, especially if the top guy on Baalke's board is a DE/DT. But RJF filled in very well when given opportunities at both the DE and DT spots. Dobbs while not proven during the season, looked like a beast in preseason and will only get better, and the remaining depth (Tukuafu & Williams) will continue to progress or get replaced by new faces. But remember that this team sacrificed Phillip Adams and gave an extra roster spot to this group inorder to keep Dobbs, Tukuafu and Williams from hitting the waiver wire so they apparently like what they see.
OLB - Moreso than with the D-line, this is the other most likely position to get filled at the 30 spot. A guy like Vinny Curry could be available and would be a toss up with Fleener, but if Ingram or Upshaw somehow fall this far, its a no brainer of a pick.

Also, Harbaugh may not have "drafted" anyone from Stanford last year... but they did put 3 cardinals on the practice squad pretty quickly after the draft.

The Harbaugh "not drafting Stanford" thing is kinda ridiculous. There are how many colleges out there producing high quality prospects? A s**tload. A coach that favors guys from the college he previously coached is limiting himself so much. He thought Baldwin would sign with us so he didn't use the 7th on him, Marecic was also of interest but they liked hunter more at that spot in the 4th.


There are obviously advantages to coaching a high ranking program, he's watched guys like Fleener more than any scout because he got to see him at practice every day as well as in the lockerroom.

If he's evaluating tight ends, he can then spend much more of his time trying to figure out if guys like Allen or Egnew are better. Or at least if they're close enough in talent to skip on getting one at the 30 spot.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
How is WR a bigger need than TE if the TE gives you the better chance of scoring touchdowns and putting the defense in a bad position???


49ers have enough cap space to get virtually all of their free agents back, if Brooks walks, that changes things, if not, then a ready-to-play TE like Fleener is a great way to go, especially considering he already knows the offense and all the aforementioned reasons why it would be a great selection. Also, in this offense, the "backup TE" really isn't a backup. Its conceivable that a guy like Fleener could get more snaps than your #2 or #3 receiver even.

Some people are focused on positions. Others like yourself are focused on team needs. Enough people on this board have made numerous points on how Coby Fleener fills team needs better than any receiver that would be available or that could fall to 30. We need to improve in the redzone and on offense. We need someone to take away attention from Vernon Davis. Coby Fleener fills those needs from day one. Not to mention, we can just as easily run or pass with both Davis and Fleener on the field. Mismatches, a defense not being able to predict what we will do based on the personnel, less attention for VD, etc. I don't see how we lose with that pick.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
How is WR a bigger need than TE if the TE gives you the better chance of scoring touchdowns and putting the defense in a bad position???


49ers have enough cap space to get virtually all of their free agents back, if Brooks walks, that changes things, if not, then a ready-to-play TE like Fleener is a great way to go, especially considering he already knows the offense and all the aforementioned reasons why it would be a great selection. Also, in this offense, the "backup TE" really isn't a backup. Its conceivable that a guy like Fleener could get more snaps than your #2 or #3 receiver even.

Some people are focused on positions. Others like yourself are focused on team needs. Enough people on this board have made numerous points on how Coby Fleener fills team needs better than any receiver that would be available or that could fall to 30. We need to improve in the redzone and on offense. We need someone to take away attention from Vernon Davis. Coby Fleener fills those needs from day one. Not to mention, we can just as easily run or pass with both Davis and Fleener on the field. Mismatches, a defense not being able to predict what we will do based on the personnel, less attention for VD, etc. I don't see how we lose with that pick.

49ers should take the best player available on their board at the time regardless of POSITION!

Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
I would actually rather get Levine Toilolo.

Hell yea

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Hell yea

No thanks, Fleener's got considerably better speed and acceleration. That's one of the issues they're talking about at Stanford is that while the TE's who will remain, Toilolo and Ertz have varying skill sets, neither can split out wide as well nor have the same speed going across the middle of the field as Fleener does.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Hell yea

No thanks, Fleener's got considerably better speed and acceleration. That's one of the issues they're talking about at Stanford is that while the TE's who will remain, Toilolo and Ertz have varying skill sets, neither can split out wide as well nor have the same speed going across the middle of the field as Fleener does.

Nah still want Toilolo

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Nah still want Toilolo

You won't get him, so get over it.


The only real reason you want him is because he's 6'8" so somehow you're assuming that height advantage will translate into added production in the pro's and that's not true at all. Toilolo is too stiff, too slow off the line, doesn't accelerate as well, if the folks at Stanford are concerned about filling in the void that Fleener is going to leave at TE, that's a pretty clear sign that they're not entirely sold on the guys behind him.

On top of that, dude weighs under 240 pounds, for 6'8", that's stick thin, he'd be skinny even if he was a power forward in basketball. In fact one of the knocks against Fleener has been that he's too lean but he's 6'6" and about 250, so unless Toilolo puts on ton of weight, he's going to get broken off something bad in the pro's, nom' saying?

coby fleener is a 100% luxury pick

they are a lot of great recieving threats out there at the TE position
charles green egnew just to name a few

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
coby fleener is a 100% luxury pick

they are a lot of great recieving threats out there at the TE position
charles green egnew just to name a few

You keep saying that, and its your opinion, apparently a lot of people disagree with you, so we can agree to disagree.


I don't think that Fleener is a luxury pick at all. Fleener IS the guy most ready to contribute from day 1, period, whether that's WR or TE. You pick a receiver at 30 and a raw TE like Green or even worse....Egnew ......and now you've got two guys that have to develop, will have to learn the offense and will probably take a year or two to get fully going. For a team that is in competition for a Super Bowl....THAT IS a LUXURY that you CAN'T afford to take if you have a guy who's ready to contribute from the get-go.



OR, at least to me, the sensible approach is this. Draft Fleener, run your offense out of the 2 TE set predominantly, end the double-team's on VD, then go pick a WR in rounds 2 or 3 who is basically as talented as a guy you would have picked in the 1st round, develop that guy, let him contribute here and there and develop and progress. Call me crazy, that just seems to make the most sense.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You keep saying that, and its your opinion, apparently a lot of people disagree with you, so we can agree to disagree.


I don't think that Fleener is a luxury pick at all. Fleener IS the guy most ready to contribute from day 1, period, whether that's WR or TE. You pick a receiver at 30 and a raw TE like Green or even worse....Egnew ......and now you've got two guys that have to develop, will have to learn the offense and will probably take a year or two to get fully going. For a team that is in competition for a Super Bowl....THAT IS a LUXURY that you CAN'T afford to take if you have a guy who's ready to contribute from the get-go.



OR, at least to me, the sensible approach is this. Draft Fleener, run your offense out of the 2 TE set predominantly, end the double-team's on VD, then go pick a WR in rounds 2 or 3 who is basically as talented as a guy you would have picked in the 1st round, develop that guy, let him contribute here and there and develop and progress. Call me crazy, that just seems to make the most sense.

we were in compeition of a SB this year while the whole team learned an offense without an offseason

im sure a TE could pick it up with a whole offseason

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
we were in compeition of a SB this year while the whole team learned an offense without an offseason

im sure a TE could pick it up with a whole offseason

I'm glad that you're sure, reality however suggest even the most talented guys will take some time. Green is basically a big, slow WR at this point, his blocking needs tremendous work, and that will take some time. Egnew is slow out of his cuts, lacks acceleration and has been falling down draft boards for a reason.

Fleener is a natural for this team and despite your certainty that "anyone" could be ready to be a major contributor within the offense, call me crazy but I prefer the guy who basically already knows the offense, who runs the best routes, has terrific size and is the most ready to contribute, period.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You keep saying that, and its your opinion, apparently a lot of people disagree with you, so we can agree to disagree.


I don't think that Fleener is a luxury pick at all. Fleener IS the guy most ready to contribute from day 1, period, whether that's WR or TE. You pick a receiver at 30 and a raw TE like Green or even worse....Egnew ......and now you've got two guys that have to develop, will have to learn the offense and will probably take a year or two to get fully going. For a team that is in competition for a Super Bowl....THAT IS a LUXURY that you CAN'T afford to take if you have a guy who's ready to contribute from the get-go.



OR, at least to me, the sensible approach is this. Draft Fleener, run your offense out of the 2 TE set predominantly, end the double-team's on VD, then go pick a WR in rounds 2 or 3 who is basically as talented as a guy you would have picked in the 1st round, develop that guy, let him contribute here and there and develop and progress. Call me crazy, that just seems to make the most sense.

OK.....you're crazy.....and you make perfect sense...

Cheers!

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
we were in compeition of a SB this year while the whole team learned an offense without an offseason

im sure a TE could pick it up with a whole offseason

How many MAJOR contributors on offense were rookies? How many members of this year's offense had to adjust to pro playbooks, pro coaching, and the expectation of pro blocking techniques? Receiver is a tough enough position to learn and adjust to in one partial offseason (they only start after the draft), TE is tougher. Not that it would be impossible, but I would trust a guy with 1st round talent and pro skills over a guy with a lot of rough edges.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
coby fleener is a 100% luxury pick

they are a lot of great recieving threats out there at the TE position
charles green egnew just to name a few

You keep saying that, and its your opinion, apparently a lot of people disagree with you, so we can agree to disagree.


I don't think that Fleener is a luxury pick at all. Fleener IS the guy most ready to contribute from day 1, period, whether that's WR or TE. You pick a receiver at 30 and a raw TE like Green or even worse....Egnew ......and now you've got two guys that have to develop, will have to learn the offense and will probably take a year or two to get fully going. For a team that is in competition for a Super Bowl....THAT IS a LUXURY that you CAN'T afford to take if you have a guy who's ready to contribute from the get-go.



OR, at least to me, the sensible approach is this. Draft Fleener, run your offense out of the 2 TE set predominantly, end the double-team's on VD, then go pick a WR in rounds 2 or 3 who is basically as talented as a guy you would have picked in the 1st round, develop that guy, let him contribute here and there and develop and progress. Call me crazy, that just seems to make the most sense.

Fleener is not a luxury. He's one of the best receiving targets in this draft. A tall, long target like him is exactly what we need in the redzone.