Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by vrabbit:
check that, will not RUN at the combine

will he still do weights and interviews and the non running drills?

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Will you be lining up Fleener outside every other play, and also throwing a two-TE set every other play too?? If that's the case, just re-sign Justin Peele who does exactly that. Remember only one football gets thrown around in a football game. Nevermind that we also have a Pro Bowl TE already on the roster, what the heck do we have at receiver???

Having a #2 receiver as opposed to a #2 TE, speed, quickness, routes are the advantages for one.

Would I be mad if Fleener was drafted in the 1st....not at all, but I see your bias, no need to get personal, JMO.

Not getting personal, just wondering. Unless you have exceptional receivers, its fairly straightforward to shut them down with good cornerback play, there's quite a few teams that have 2 good cornerbacks. It's a hell of a lot more difficult to shut down two top tight-ends. Teams aren't prepared for it, the Patriots were lighting teams up last year because they couldn't handle the mismatch, too bad their secondary was absolute garbage.

Its one thing when you're the Giants and you have Eli and he's got quick receivers that he can basically make passes to them in tight windows, its another when you have any overly conservative Alex Smith who has shown a fondness for TE's and a reluctance to throw to WR's. Even if you get some stud receiver, it's not like that receiver is going to be destroying coverage all the time, Alex still has to make the passes, and from what I've seen, a 6'6" TE across the middle who can corral some of his higher lobs is going to be a lot more valuable than another receiver who might not be anymore productive than Crabtree.

Well to the exception, the Patriots do have solid receivers in Welker, Branch and Eldeman who all are capable of stretching the field and taking pressure off the TE's. As opposed to Crabtree, Williams and John Matthews. But also look at the difference in offenses, NE is very pass-happy opposed to our more run-heavy or actually more balanced attack. What we need more is speed on offense or explosiveness, we barely have a #1 receiver, not to mention we possibly will lose half our receiver squad via free agency. I mean if it were that easy with dual TE's, why not line up 3 or 4 then?? Why, because defenses our much more fast now a days and you need the speed to keep the defenses honest.

Mike Wallace.....

Originally posted by rk1642:
I used to be all over Fleener but I'm now thinking we go another route.

I'd bet Trent and Jim have several TE's that they like in later rounds (3-4) that could fit the bill for 3rd down and red zone.

They are gonna have a player ranking and will stick to it. Just like last year when drafting.

I'd like us to go pretty much all O but I doubt the draft falls that way for us.

I would not be suprised if we end up with a cb, de/olb and or dt with our first and second round picks. We still need these positions and if the highest player rated at the time we pick is one of them, we go that route.

So, we push hard to pickup a #1 wr in FA, which frees up our draft position!

I still love Fleener but you are probably right. If they do go with a FA, I hope it's someone legit and not bottom dweller like Roy Williams. Even when we grabbed Braylon I thought it was a good addition for a cheap price but I was only hoping he would take pressure off of Crabtree and VD. Now I think we need someone who will command the #1 DB covering him or a double team. I don't know who that would be in FA without spending a lot of money. At least FA is first and if we don't sign who we want then they know we need to be more agressive in the draft.

I def. think Harbs can make another TE into a weapon in the later rounds. I just don't want to wait a couple of years for that project to develop. If someone can make plays right away then it takes pressure off of the rest of the offense.
And I just don't want to hear people making more excuses about Alex needing more weapons, Crabs being a #3 wr at best, wr running wrong routes...
Fleener just seems to make sense and he is rated around our pick in the draft. We will see...

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I still love Fleener but you are probably right. If they do go with a FA, I hope it's someone legit and not bottom dweller like Roy Williams. Even when we grabbed Braylon I thought it was a good addition for a cheap price but I was only hoping he would take pressure off of Crabtree and VD. Now I think we need someone who will command the #1 DB covering him or a double team. I don't know who that would be in FA without spending a lot of money. At least FA is first and if we don't sign who we want then they know we need to be more agressive in the draft.

I def. think Harbs can make another TE into a weapon in the later rounds. I just don't want to wait a couple of years for that project to develop. If someone can make plays right away then it takes pressure off of the rest of the offense.
And I just don't want to hear people making more excuses about Alex needing more weapons, Crabs being a #3 wr at best, wr running wrong routes...
Fleener just seems to make sense and he is rated around our pick in the draft. We will see...

RANDOM ALEX SIGHTING!

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I still love Fleener but you are probably right. If they do go with a FA, I hope it's someone legit and not bottom dweller like Roy Williams. Even when we grabbed Braylon I thought it was a good addition for a cheap price but I was only hoping he would take pressure off of Crabtree and VD. Now I think we need someone who will command the #1 DB covering him or a double team. I don't know who that would be in FA without spending a lot of money. At least FA is first and if we don't sign who we want then they know we need to be more agressive in the draft.

I def. think Harbs can make another TE into a weapon in the later rounds. I just don't want to wait a couple of years for that project to develop. If someone can make plays right away then it takes pressure off of the rest of the offense.
And I just don't want to hear people making more excuses about Alex needing more weapons, Crabs being a #3 wr at best, wr running wrong routes...
Fleener just seems to make sense and he is rated around our pick in the draft. We will see...

RANDOM ALEX SIGHTING!

I wasn't trying to dog Alex... But if we get projects in the draft than I think we will have another year of the same arguments. "We need more time for this offense to get insync." "WR's don't get enough separation." Etc... We know our D is good enough. So if we get guys like Fleener or FA wr's that already command top DB's or double teams than we know Alex has enough weapons to get the job done or he has to step his game up. Alex is good enough for me right now. I'm just saying that a VET WR or a Fleener that already knows what Harbaugh wants from the offense is just one less thing to worry about. Hopefully I'm not being confusing. I just don't want to be like the Ravens...Having a great D for years and never really adding the right pieces on offense to get the job done.
Back to Fleener. I think he is a weapon right away and would be an aggressive approach to winning now. And not stopping there and adding a VET FA or another wr is the draft to also help take pressure off of our D.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I still love Fleener but you are probably right. If they do go with a FA, I hope it's someone legit and not bottom dweller like Roy Williams. Even when we grabbed Braylon I thought it was a good addition for a cheap price but I was only hoping he would take pressure off of Crabtree and VD. Now I think we need someone who will command the #1 DB covering him or a double team. I don't know who that would be in FA without spending a lot of money. At least FA is first and if we don't sign who we want then they know we need to be more agressive in the draft.

I def. think Harbs can make another TE into a weapon in the later rounds. I just don't want to wait a couple of years for that project to develop. If someone can make plays right away then it takes pressure off of the rest of the offense.
And I just don't want to hear people making more excuses about Alex needing more weapons, Crabs being a #3 wr at best, wr running wrong routes...
Fleener just seems to make sense and he is rated around our pick in the draft. We will see...

RANDOM ALEX SIGHTING!

I wasn't trying to dog Alex... But if we get projects in the draft than I think we will have another year of the same arguments. "We need more time for this offense to get insync." "WR's don't get enough separation." Etc... We know our D is good enough. So if we get guys like Fleener or FA wr's that already command top DB's or double teams than we know Alex has enough weapons to get the job done or he has to step his game up. Alex is good enough for me right now. I'm just saying that a VET WR or a Fleener that already knows what Harbaugh wants from the offense is just one less thing to worry about. Hopefully I'm not being confusing. I just don't want to be like the Ravens...Having a great D for years and never really adding the right pieces on offense to get the job done.
Back to Fleener. I think he is a weapon right away and would be an aggressive approach to winning now. And not stopping there and adding a VET FA or another wr is the draft to also help take pressure off of our D.

I don't have any issue w/your points, and I have an embarrassingly obvious for Fleener. I just get a kick out of the way everything comes back to Alex.

edit: by the way, I am THRILLED that he's not running. I think the other two will impress, and we will have a great shot at him. Hopefully, we don't get too cute and trade back too far, letting someone come up and take him.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Nah still want Toilolo

You won't get him, so get over it.


The only real reason you want him is because he's 6'8" so somehow you're assuming that height advantage will translate into added production in the pro's and that's not true at all. Toilolo is too stiff, too slow off the line, doesn't accelerate as well, if the folks at Stanford are concerned about filling in the void that Fleener is going to leave at TE, that's a pretty clear sign that they're not entirely sold on the guys behind him.

On top of that, dude weighs under 240 pounds, for 6'8", that's stick thin, he'd be skinny even if he was a power forward in basketball. In fact one of the knocks against Fleener has been that he's too lean but he's 6'6" and about 250, so unless Toilolo puts on ton of weight, he's going to get broken off something bad in the pro's, nom' saying?

Nah still want him on the 49ers roster next year.....

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Well to the exception, the Patriots do have solid receivers in Welker, Branch and Eldeman who all are capable of stretching the field and taking pressure off the TE's. As opposed to Crabtree, Williams and John Matthews. But also look at the difference in offenses, NE is very pass-happy opposed to our more run-heavy or actually more balanced attack. What we need more is speed on offense or explosiveness, we barely have a #1 receiver, not to mention we possibly will lose half our receiver squad via free agency. I mean if it were that easy with dual TE's, why not line up 3 or 4 then?? Why, because defenses our much more fast now a days and you need the speed to keep the defenses honest.

Welker, Branch, and Edelman are not capable of stretching the field. Well at least not vertically. Possession receivers across the board. Branch is a proven product of the system.

Tom Brady was a whopping 1-15 on passes beyond 30 yards this year. While I agree that Wes Welker brings something to the table that we currently don't have explosiveness and separation, but I really don't see the rest of your point.

We bring in Fleener and what changes? We run 2 tight end sets with Delanie Walker all of the time. Are you implying we're going to run less with 3 capable tight ends. Ideally speaking we'll stop bringing in 6-7 offensive line and go big with tight ends that can actually beat you in the pass and run game.

BTW If you're looking to build speed and explosiveness at the receiving core Pittsburgh's/ Green Bay got the right plan. Draft in the 2-4 round every year. The bigger guys will go first but they're just as likely to bust as the mid round guys.

Originally posted by vrabbit:
will not be at the combine due to ankle issues

Good news for the 49ers if Harbaugh does happen to have Fleener in mind.

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Nah still want him on the 49ers roster next year.....

Well since he's returning to Stanford, he won't be, you need a hug or something?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I still love Fleener but you are probably right. If they do go with a FA, I hope it's someone legit and not bottom dweller like Roy Williams. Even when we grabbed Braylon I thought it was a good addition for a cheap price but I was only hoping he would take pressure off of Crabtree and VD. Now I think we need someone who will command the #1 DB covering him or a double team. I don't know who that would be in FA without spending a lot of money. At least FA is first and if we don't sign who we want then they know we need to be more agressive in the draft.

I def. think Harbs can make another TE into a weapon in the later rounds. I just don't want to wait a couple of years for that project to develop. If someone can make plays right away then it takes pressure off of the rest of the offense.
And I just don't want to hear people making more excuses about Alex needing more weapons, Crabs being a #3 wr at best, wr running wrong routes...
Fleener just seems to make sense and he is rated around our pick in the draft. We will see...

RANDOM ALEX SIGHTING!

I wasn't trying to dog Alex... But if we get projects in the draft than I think we will have another year of the same arguments. "We need more time for this offense to get insync." "WR's don't get enough separation." Etc... We know our D is good enough. So if we get guys like Fleener or FA wr's that already command top DB's or double teams than we know Alex has enough weapons to get the job done or he has to step his game up. Alex is good enough for me right now. I'm just saying that a VET WR or a Fleener that already knows what Harbaugh wants from the offense is just one less thing to worry about. Hopefully I'm not being confusing. I just don't want to be like the Ravens...Having a great D for years and never really adding the right pieces on offense to get the job done.
Back to Fleener. I think he is a weapon right away and would be an aggressive approach to winning now. And not stopping there and adding a VET FA or another wr is the draft to also help take pressure off of our D.

I don't have any issue w/your points, and I have an embarrassingly obvious for Fleener. I just get a kick out of the way everything comes back to Alex.

edit: by the way, I am THRILLED that he's not running. I think the other two will impress, and we will have a great shot at him. Hopefully, we don't get too cute and trade back too far, letting someone come up and take him.

Same here. I want Fleener on the team and i am hoping Harbaugh feels the same. I'm glad he isn't running at the combine. It makes me wonder how much Baalke will yield to Harbaugh. If Harbaugh likes a guy, Trent has be able to give Harbs the pieces he needs, but at the same time, Trent has to find the D-Coordinators and Special teams their pieces. But, Harbaugh is very much involved in all aspects of the game, not just offense. They have to work together but Baalke still has to be responsible for the roster and his job.
They work well together, but I'm assuming Kaep from last year was a Harbaugh likes this guy pick and we needed to get him. I hoping Fleener is the same situation.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Same here. I want Fleener on the team and i am hoping Harbaugh feels the same. I'm glad he isn't running at the combine. It makes me wonder how much Baalke will yield to Harbaugh. If Harbaugh likes a guy, Trent has be able to give Harbs the pieces he needs, but at the same time, Trent has to find the D-Coordinators and Special teams their pieces. But, Harbaugh is very much involved in all aspects of the game, not just offense. They have to work together but Baalke still has to be responsible for the roster and his job.
They work well together, but I'm assuming Kaep from last year was a Harbaugh likes this guy pick and we needed to get him. I hoping Fleener is the same situation.

If Harbaugh likes Fleener, I'm sure Baalke is on the same page. These guys seem to be very in snyc with each other.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Nah still want him on the 49ers roster next year.....

Well since he's returning to Stanford, he won't be, you need a hug or something?

Oh man really?.....yea I might need one....lol

would be a great value pick at #30

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Welker and Eldeman are both very capable of stretching the field, we SHOULD both agree upon that without having to bring stats into this. Branch is also still dangerous enough that he takes pressure off the TE's and opens up the underneath routes, I just don't see how you could disagree. But with as deep as NE is at the TE position, not even they run two or three TE's constantly in between the 20's. NE's second TE doesn't even have 200 yards receiving with only 2 TD's, and as pass-happy NE what makes anyone think Fleener would have just as much or more with our balanced attack?? Now I could see if we were running a Coryell or smiliar to Norv Turner's offense, utilizing a lot of two-TE sets with heavy play-action down field passing, but we're not, which is even more of a reason NOT to draft another TE in the 1st round. NOW, if Fleener falls to us in the 2nd than by all means pull the damn trigger, but as it stands we're better off adding another DE/LB, CB, DE, OG or WR in the 1st round.

IF they are capable of stretching the field, they don't actually do it. They both do their damage with under neath routes: mostly slants, crosses, outs, shake-outs, shake-ins, and drags. The Superbowl was the first time I saw Welker run an even marginally-deep (MAYBE 20yds) route in a while, and Brady was so surprised that he missed him, no matter what his bag-of-bones wife has to say. Like I said, Branch runs good, crafty routes, but he's definitely not pulling safety help off of the TEs. ever. I think your statement about the #2 tight end has been covered adequately. I think you are trying so hard to make a point that you lost touch with the facts for a moment. The team and players you are describing do not match-up with what I see on the field. I could be crazy, but I don't think so (would I know if I WAS? )

I don't feel I lost touch of the point I'm trying to make just really forming an opinion on why I rather go in a different direction than Fleener in the 1st.


re: Bold - So I guess you watch more Patriots football than the 9ers I take it?? I mean you must have since you know every game that's all the routes they run.