WR - Breshad Perriman UCF

LMAO he'll probably cut the hair...he got that Julio Jones hairline LOL

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

The 9-route thing I think is a misunderstanding -- MD is not saying Perriman cannot or has not ever ran the other routes, he's saying his most experience/success comes from the vertical game.

To be quite honest, as boom or bust as Perriman is, I would not be all that shocked if Rannell Hall went on to be the better NFL player. Hall had a down year because he played fighting through injuries, but he's a very underrated receiver who also has return ability. They gave him some opportunities running the ball too (25 carries, 129 yards, 1 TD). Had a nice Shrine game week too.

Well, if that is your opinion, I am curious what you are basing it on. Even being a better route runner and more of an "underneath" WR, Hall was within 1 catch of Perriman and didn't find the End Zone.

Also, keep in mind, this is with teams rolling all their coverage towards Perriman... so his job was not going to get any easier operating underneath.

When slow, average athletic WR prospects succeed in the NFL, they were almost always ultra-productive guys in college whose stock took a hit due to their measureables.

I agree with lowertheboom on this one. As much as I respect OTC and Mad's scouting expertise, I have to disagree with them a bit when it comes to Perriman. As a UCF alumni and Orlando resident I get to watch and go to a lot of UCF games. First, I think Perriman is a late 1st, early 2nd round pick. His on the field speed is probly around a 4.35-4.42 which is great for his size. He does not only run 9 routes, I would bet he goes over the middle more than he runs verticals.

Ucf's coach is George O'leary, and he loves to run the ball. Back in 2007 when Ucf had a RB named Kevin Smith( ended up being a 3rd round pick by the lions). Smith rushed the ball 450 times, breaking a NCAA record for most rushing attempts in a season. This is the offensive philosophy Ucf has stuck with, which limits the opportunies for it's WR's.

Ucf's qb this year was a sophomore who was making his first starts and to say the least he wasn't doing his recievers any favors. He would often miss a wide open Perriman or Hall over the middle and he struggled to go through his reads as most young qb's do. Having a young qb with accuracy problems and having an offensive philosophy of being a run first team didn't help Perriman get a lot of looks and catches. He does tend to drop easy balls, but I believe this is due to a lack of concentration. He more than makes up for it with his unbelievable catches he can make over defenders.

Having said all this, year 1I believe Perriman can be a guy who can run most every route(though he does need to work on his breaks), and not just be a deep threat. I say he will make a solid #2 WR in his first year or 2 and can eventually mold into a true #1. Ucf has produced some solid WR's the past few years (Brandon Marshall, Mike Sims-Walker, Kamar Aiken). And as I believe OTC said, another Ucf WR to look out for in rounds 4-6 is Rannell Hall, but that's for another thread.

If we can grab BPA in the 1st round and Perriman is there when our 2nd pick comes around I think we should take him. Like I said I think it would be the perfect situation for him to come in and be behind Boldin for a year and fine craft his route running and hands, making him ready to take over when Boldin leaves next year. He is a willing blocker, and would fit the type of WR we are looking for to replace Boldin and be paired up with Torrey Smith for the next 4-5 years. That's just my personal opinion. Go Niners!

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:
* Devin Smith had 8 games with 2 catches or less
* 33 rec in a college season as a #1 WR as an NFL prospect is very alarming any way you slice it
* He is a true 1-trick pony. He hardly caught any passes that were not deep balls. Even Ted Ginn Jr. could at least take a bubble screen or slant the distance
* DS played against better competition- he also produced less, was capable of less tasks on the field, had a very good QB, elite college RB and one of the best college coaches of all time



I would put 0 stock into "yards per target", as there are too many variables in that stat, such as how frequently he was targeted and the quality of passes his way.

It's your loss if you want to put 0 stock into a statistic. Having such outrageous numbers in yards per target and a high catch rate to go along with it is a decent sign that he was underutilized at Ohio State and should have been thrown at a lot more. I agree that more targets would ultimately lead to a lower yards/target, but also significantly more yards (and receptions). Smith also came on late in the season when Cardale Jones took over and could be really dangerous in the NFL if he goes to a team whose QB has a cannon like the Ravens (who also need to replace Torrey Smith). There's noise with yards/target and it's a small sample size, but you have to look at outliers like that.

NFL teams/QB's use yards/target and passer rating throwing to certain receivers to determine who they should throw to more, so it's not a useless stat as you seem to be suggesting. Receptions or yards have almost as many variables (# of targets, quality of targets, coverage, etc. affect both) so it's a little bizarre that you're willing to write off yards per target completely while saying receptions and yards are very important.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:
* Devin Smith had 8 games with 2 catches or less
* 33 rec in a college season as a #1 WR as an NFL prospect is very alarming any way you slice it
* He is a true 1-trick pony. He hardly caught any passes that were not deep balls. Even Ted Ginn Jr. could at least take a bubble screen or slant the distance
* DS played against better competition- he also produced less, was capable of less tasks on the field, had a very good QB, elite college RB and one of the best college coaches of all time



I would put 0 stock into "yards per target", as there are too many variables in that stat, such as how frequently he was targeted and the quality of passes his way.

It's your loss if you want to put 0 stock into a statistic. Having such outrageous numbers in yards per target and a high catch rate to go along with it is a decent sign that he was underutilized at Ohio State and should have been thrown at a lot more. I agree that more targets would ultimately lead to a lower yards/target, but also significantly more yards (and receptions). Smith also came on late in the season when Cardale Jones took over and could be really dangerous in the NFL if he goes to a team whose QB has a cannon like the Ravens (who also need to replace Torrey Smith). There's noise with yards/target and it's a small sample size, but you have to look at outliers like that.

NFL teams/QB's use yards/target and passer rating throwing to certain receivers to determine who they should throw to more, so it's not a useless stat as you seem to be suggesting. Receptions or yards have almost as many variables (# of targets, quality of targets, coverage, etc. affect both) so it's a little bizarre that you're willing to write off yards per target completely while saying receptions and yards are very important.

They do?

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
It's your loss if you want to put 0 stock into a statistic. Having such outrageous numbers in yards per target and a high catch rate to go along with it is a decent sign that he was underutilized at Ohio State and should have been thrown at a lot more. I agree that more targets would ultimately lead to a lower yards/target, but also significantly more yards (and receptions). Smith also came on late in the season when Cardale Jones took over and could be really dangerous in the NFL if he goes to a team whose QB has a cannon like the Ravens (who also need to replace Torrey Smith). There's noise with yards/target and it's a small sample size, but you have to look at outliers like that.

NFL teams/QB's use yards/target and passer rating throwing to certain receivers to determine who they should throw to more, so it's not a useless stat as you seem to be suggesting. Receptions or yards have almost as many variables (# of targets, quality of targets, coverage, etc. affect both) so it's a little bizarre that you're willing to write off yards per target completely while saying receptions and yards are very important.

I don't think you even absorbed what I said and WHY I don't pay attention to that stat. Maybe "0" stock was a little too black and white, but my point is that there are too many grand variables completely out of the WR's control that play into that.

As for your 2nd paragraph... NFL teams have NFL caliber QB's throwing the ball to their WR's, so the stat bears MUCH more weight than in college where 98% of QB's won't even stick on an NFL roster, let alone be starter caliber or any good. And what the poster above said... how do you even know this to say this? There are 32 teams in the NFL, assuming even 1 team does it that way, it's insane to think that every team and coach analyzes the same things.

Collegiate prospect scouting and self-scouting for an NFL are not even close to the same thing. In one, you are trying to project how a player will perform at the next level, in the other you're looking at the production of the players currently playing at that level.

Listen, I say this with as much respect as possible... but if it were as easy as rounding up a handful of baseline stats and seeing who had the better numbers, there would 500,000 fans "qualified" to be an NFL GM.

It's not. Every single stat, even the "advanced" metrics, have lots of variables. It's why you don't just draft the most productive players at the best programs high no matter what and why guys with lesser production from smaller schools are considered better prospects and end up being better pro's.

Besides, any way you slice it... no stat or anything ANYONE provided excuses Devin Smith for having a mere 33 receptions on the season, disappearing completely for the majority of the games, or being borderline worthless in the intermediate and short part of the field.

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:
Besides, any way you slice it... no stat or anything ANYONE provided excuses Devin Smith for having a mere 33 receptions on the season, disappearing completely for the majority of the games, or being borderline worthless in the intermediate and short part of the field.

48 targets explains that perfectly. He couldn't have been much more productive in his limited targets and clearly should have been targeted more. His effectiveness running deep routes and stretching the field explains why he wasn't used as much in the short and intermediate part of the field. He was arguably more useful to the team pinning safeties back to open up the running and game and that part of the field for his teammates even if he was nothing more than a decoy sometimes.

Not once have I argued that stats tell the whole picture or that every team looks at exactly the same statistics, so that's about as big of a straw-man argument as it gets. With all due respect, I understand statistics a lot better than you ever will.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:
Besides, any way you slice it... no stat or anything ANYONE provided excuses Devin Smith for having a mere 33 receptions on the season, disappearing completely for the majority of the games, or being borderline worthless in the intermediate and short part of the field.

48 targets explains that perfectly. He couldn't have been much more productive in his limited targets and clearly should have been targeted more. His effectiveness running deep routes and stretching the field explains why he wasn't used as much in the short and intermediate part of the field. He was arguably more useful to the team pinning safeties back to open up the running and game and that part of the field for his teammates even if he was nothing more than a decoy sometimes.

Not once have I argued that stats tell the whole picture or that every team looks at exactly the same statistics, so that's about as big of a straw-man argument as it gets. With all due respect, I understand statistics a lot better than you ever will.

No, it doesn't. There has NEVER been a WR in big time college football that predictably did the same things over and over again, despite having the ability to beat you in multiple ways. That is THE most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. It's honestly not even worth addressing any further. That makes your offense predictable, makes it easier for the D to take your best players out of the game.

You have said, done and showed nothing that proves you understand stats better than me... or anyone, for that matter.

If you did, you wouldn't keep banking on the same stat that I proved was flawed, and you wouldn't imply that NFL teams look at and evaluate the same way you do. If that's not "what you meant", that's on you, don't use poor, deliberate word choice and then say you meant something else.

But ya, Devin Smith is a more productive, better all around player because the Buckeyes didn't bother throwing him the ball unless he was wide open downfield.

"He's soooooo good going deep, he doesn't NEED to run any other route!". Awesome

Best part is we are arguing about a guy who has less dimensions and worse production than Ted Ginn Jr....

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:
No, it doesn't. There has NEVER been a WR in big time college football that predictably did the same things over and over again, despite having the ability to beat you in multiple ways. That is THE most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. It's honestly not even worth addressing any further. That makes your offense predictable, makes it easier for the D to take your best players out of the game.

You have said, done and showed nothing that proves you understand stats better than me... or anyone, for that matter.

If you did, you wouldn't keep banking on the same stat that I proved was flawed, and you wouldn't imply that NFL teams look at and evaluate the same way you do. If that's not "what you meant", that's on you, don't use poor, deliberate word choice and then say you meant something else.

But ya, Devin Smith is a more productive, better all around player because the Buckeyes didn't bother throwing him the ball unless he was wide open downfield.

"He's soooooo good going deep, he doesn't NEED to run any other route!". Awesome

Best part is we are arguing about a guy who has less dimensions and worse production than Ted Ginn Jr....

Had to stop you with the Ted Ginn less dimensions idea. The only thing comparable about those two are speed and the fact they went to OSU. Please show me film on how Ginn provides more "dimensions" to his game then Smith? Ginn is horrible at tracking the ball and making adjustments, does NOT compete for catches like Smith does, He avoids contact at all costs, does not block at all, and does not grab the ball at it's highest point.

Ginn was nothing more than a ST player and a very good one in college. I like Devin Smith, but it is hard to evaluate him more based on how little they threw the ball until Jones become the QB. I think Smith could be a valuable part to a WR corps but not a #1 at this point.

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:
No, it doesn't. There has NEVER been a WR in big time college football that predictably did the same things over and over again, despite having the ability to beat you in multiple ways. That is THE most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. It's honestly not even worth addressing any further. That makes your offense predictable, makes it easier for the D to take your best players out of the game.

You have said, done and showed nothing that proves you understand stats better than me... or anyone, for that matter.

If you did, you wouldn't keep banking on the same stat that I proved was flawed, and you wouldn't imply that NFL teams look at and evaluate the same way you do. If that's not "what you meant", that's on you, don't use poor, deliberate word choice and then say you meant something else.

But ya, Devin Smith is a more productive, better all around player because the Buckeyes didn't bother throwing him the ball unless he was wide open downfield.

"He's soooooo good going deep, he doesn't NEED to run any other route!". Awesome

Best part is we are arguing about a guy who has less dimensions and worse production than Ted Ginn Jr....

You really don't have a strong grasp of the English language and every other argument out of your mouth is a straw man's argument. You're debating against yourself at this point.

I never said Devin Smith can beat you in multiple ways. He's primarily a deep threat at this point, but has the athleticism (start/stop ability and quickness) that you pointed out as necessary to develop into a well-rounded receiver and good route runner.

As far as statistics are concerned, I don't really care whether you believe that I know what I'm talking about, but you already showed you don't when you said you would put 0 stock in yards per target. No one who understands statistics and football would even say that by mistake.

I did not even suggest that NFL teams evaluate players close to the same way I do. Yards/target is one of many predictive variables you can look at to determine future targets and it would be foolish not to think that some, if not all teams look at this stat. It's useful to look at for fantasy football when projecting player performance and it makes sense that teams consider how successful they are throwing to certain players just like they consider how successful they are throwing at certain corners. It's more useful at the NFL level because conditions are more similar over time, but you're a fool for thinking that it has no significance at the college level. It's one stat that should be considered along with many others, and I only pointed it out because Devin Smith's yards per target is an enormous outlier on the chart.

I've also not stated that he only runs 9 routes or that he only needs to run one route. He was extremely effective running them and having Devin Smith go deep put a lot of pressure on defenses, so he was told to go deep a lot, but he was moderately successful running other routes when he was on the field.

A legitimate concern is whether Devin Smith can play at the same speed all game, because he was used as a rotational player at Ohio State which also reduced his targets (and probably helped his yards per target because he was fresh). When he's on the field, he's a better player and a better athlete than Perriman though.

Here is an article that points out that Smith doesn't solely run 9 routes and was successful on a variety of routes. He didn't drop a pass in the 5 game sample and while I don't know his drop rate for the season, I imagine it will be significantly lower than the 12-14% credited to Perriman.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=harmon_receptionperception_nfldraft_devinsmith15

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
The 9-route thing I think is a misunderstanding -- MD is not saying Perriman cannot or has not ever ran the other routes, he's saying his most experience/success comes from the vertical game.

To be quite honest, as boom or bust as Perriman is, I would not be all that shocked if Rannell Hall went on to be the better NFL player. Hall had a down year because he played fighting through injuries, but he's a very underrated receiver who also has return ability. They gave him some opportunities running the ball too (25 carries, 129 yards, 1 TD). Had a nice Shrine game week too.

Well, if that is your opinion, I am curious what you are basing it on. Even being a better route runner and more of an "underneath" WR, Hall was within 1 catch of Perriman and didn't find the End Zone.

Also, keep in mind, this is with teams rolling all their coverage towards Perriman... so his job was not going to get any easier operating underneath.

When slow, average athletic WR prospects succeed in the NFL, they were almost always ultra-productive guys in college whose stock took a hit due to their measureables.

I agree with lowertheboom on this one. As much as I respect OTC and Mad's scouting expertise, I have to disagree with them a bit when it comes to Perriman. As a UCF alumni and Orlando resident I get to watch and go to a lot of UCF games. First, I think Perriman is a late 1st, early 2nd round pick. His on the field speed is probly around a 4.35-4.42 which is great for his size. He does not only run 9 routes, I would bet he goes over the middle more than he runs verticals.

Ucf's coach is George O'leary, and he loves to run the ball. Back in 2007 when Ucf had a RB named Kevin Smith( ended up being a 3rd round pick by the lions). Smith rushed the ball 450 times, breaking a NCAA record for most rushing attempts in a season. This is the offensive philosophy Ucf has stuck with, which limits the opportunies for it's WR's.

Ucf's qb this year was a sophomore who was making his first starts and to say the least he wasn't doing his recievers any favors. He would often miss a wide open Perriman or Hall over the middle and he struggled to go through his reads as most young qb's do. Having a young qb with accuracy problems and having an offensive philosophy of being a run first team didn't help Perriman get a lot of looks and catches. He does tend to drop easy balls, but I believe this is due to a lack of concentration. He more than makes up for it with his unbelievable catches he can make over defenders.

Having said all this, year 1I believe Perriman can be a guy who can run most every route(though he does need to work on his breaks), and not just be a deep threat. I say he will make a solid #2 WR in his first year or 2 and can eventually mold into a true #1. Ucf has produced some solid WR's the past few years (Brandon Marshall, Mike Sims-Walker, Kamar Aiken). And as I believe OTC said, another Ucf WR to look out for in rounds 4-6 is Rannell Hall, but that's for another thread.

If we can grab BPA in the 1st round and Perriman is there when our 2nd pick comes around I think we should take him. Like I said I think it would be the perfect situation for him to come in and be behind Boldin for a year and fine craft his route running and hands, making him ready to take over when Boldin leaves next year. He is a willing blocker, and would fit the type of WR we are looking for to replace Boldin and be paired up with Torrey Smith for the next 4-5 years. That's just my personal opinion. Go Niners!

I agree with you 100% Luckycharms

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Had to stop you with the Ted Ginn less dimensions idea. The only thing comparable about those two are speed and the fact they went to OSU. Please show me film on how Ginn provides more "dimensions" to his game then Smith? Ginn is horrible at tracking the ball and making adjustments, does NOT compete for catches like Smith does, He avoids contact at all costs, does not block at all, and does not grab the ball at it's highest point.

Ginn was nothing more than a ST player and a very good one in college. I like Devin Smith, but it is hard to evaluate him more based on how little they threw the ball until Jones become the QB. I think Smith could be a valuable part to a WR corps but not a #1 at this point.

Ted Ginn was a horrible prospect IMO and I saw him as a bust WR a mile away.

What I meant by more dimensions is that Ted Ginn could at least be incorporated and was on bubble screens and slants, was a threat to go the distance no matter where he caught the ball, not just downfield.

I don't disagree with you that Devin Smith is better at those skills you mentioned, but that doesn't make him any less of a 1 trick pony. And being a good run blocker or not is probably the absolute last thing a WR should be graded on. Run blocking from the WR position is purely a matter of effort, that's why Crabtree went from being horrible in that regard to actually being good at it when Harbaugh arrived- he had no choice but to give effort.

The ironic part about is that in lieu of Devin Smith's defense... he was a less productive WR than Ginn was. HIs QB - BOTH his QB's - Braxton Miller and Cardale Jones, were a far cry from how terrible UCF's QB was, and he still had about 3/4's of the catches Perriman had.

Not saying Devin Smith is a terrible player and won't be an asset to a team in the NFL, but there is absolutely nothing in his production, game film or skill-set that logically points to him having a good chance at being an impact starter in the league.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
You really don't have a strong grasp of the English language and every other argument out of your mouth is a straw man's argument. You're debating against yourself at this point.

I never said Devin Smith can beat you in multiple ways. He's primarily a deep threat at this point, but has the athleticism (start/stop ability and quickness) that you pointed out as necessary to develop into a well-rounded receiver and good route runner.

As far as statistics are concerned, I don't really care whether you believe that I know what I'm talking about, but you already showed you don't when you said you would put 0 stock in yards per target. No one who understands statistics and football would even say that by mistake.

I did not even suggest that NFL teams evaluate players close to the same way I do. Yards/target is one of many predictive variables you can look at to determine future targets and it would be foolish not to think that some, if not all teams look at this stat. It's useful to look at for fantasy football when projecting player performance and it makes sense that teams consider how successful they are throwing to certain players just like they consider how successful they are throwing at certain corners. It's more useful at the NFL level because conditions are more similar over time, but you're a fool for thinking that it has no significance at the college level. It's one stat that should be considered along with many others, and I only pointed it out because Devin Smith's yards per target is an enormous outlier on the chart.

I've also not stated that he only runs 9 routes or that he only needs to run one route. He was extremely effective running them and having Devin Smith go deep put a lot of pressure on defenses, so he was told to go deep a lot, but he was moderately successful running other routes when he was on the field.

A legitimate concern is whether Devin Smith can play at the same speed all game, because he was used as a rotational player at Ohio State which also reduced his targets (and probably helped his yards per target because he was fresh). When he's on the field, he's a better player and a better athlete than Perriman though.

Here is an article that points out that Smith doesn't solely run 9 routes and was successful on a variety of routes. He didn't drop a pass in the 5 game sample and while I don't know his drop rate for the season, I imagine it will be significantly lower than the 12-14% credited to Perriman.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=harmon_receptionperception_nfldraft_devinsmith15

You're completely back tracking. You know the posts are there for everyone to see exactly what you said, right? I even bolded it, dude...

Implying something = Saying Something. I'm not gonna get into a game of semantics because you didn't use the exact verbiage I did.

You said specifically: "His effectiveness running deep routes and stretching the field explains why he wasn't used as much in the short and intermediate part of the field."
^^That is implying that he can go short/intermediate full and well, but he is soooooo good at going deep, they didn't bother to use him in that manner. Even though he could. And even though most game tape and almost every scouting report shows and says that he doesn't do a good job of breaking off routes underneath crisply.

You also said in regards to yards per target: "NFL teams/QB's use yards/target and passer rating throwing to certain receivers to determine who they should throw to"
Again, implying that it's a universal tool measure that NFL uses that correlates to college WR's.

If you were not implying that NFL teams will be putting a lot of weight on that stat in regards to evaluating college WR's... then why even bring it up in this discussion?

Yes, Devin Smith was very effective only running 9 routes.... IN A SIMPLIFIED, DUMBED DOWN COLLEGE OFFENSE. We are talking about the NFL.

Please explain how Devin Smith is a "better athlete" than Perriman. Even if you wanna argue that Perriman's time isn't "legit" (which is funny to me, since it's unheard of for players to run a 4.15-4.27 ANYWHERE)... Perriman still shows better body control, balance, agility, suddenness and power. That's just a ridiculous blanket statement based off nothing but an opinion.


Your article can say whatever it wants. Clever writers can manipulate any stat or scenario to tell the story they want told.

Fact of the matter is, Breshad Perriman was a lot more productive running those routes and making plays with a FAR worse QB than Devin Smith.

Perriman got open running those types of routes consistently, Devin Smith did not.

Devin Smith was part of a "rotation" of WR's at Ohio St. because even Urban Meyer knew he wasn't an effective every down WR. If a player is as talented as you keep insisting Smith is, you don't take him off the field.


It's clear you made your mind up about both players before really taking a hard look at everything and taking all factors into consideration. So I have nothing more to add.

If you think a guy that wasn't even a full time starter for his team, has very little film evidence of him being more than a deep threat and only caught 33 balls on the year despite playing with 2 QB's who will likely be in the NFL at some point has a better shot at being an impact player than a complete physical freak that has shown the ability to do anything you could ask a #1 NFL WR to do...

...then you're entitled to that opinion. Go ahead and live with it, but please don't be mad when I bump this thread a year or two from now.

Originally posted by LowerTheBoom:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Had to stop you with the Ted Ginn less dimensions idea. The only thing comparable about those two are speed and the fact they went to OSU. Please show me film on how Ginn provides more "dimensions" to his game then Smith? Ginn is horrible at tracking the ball and making adjustments, does NOT compete for catches like Smith does, He avoids contact at all costs, does not block at all, and does not grab the ball at it's highest point.

Ginn was nothing more than a ST player and a very good one in college. I like Devin Smith, but it is hard to evaluate him more based on how little they threw the ball until Jones become the QB. I think Smith could be a valuable part to a WR corps but not a #1 at this point.

Ted Ginn was a horrible prospect IMO and I saw him as a bust WR a mile away.

What I meant by more dimensions is that Ted Ginn could at least be incorporated and was on bubble screens and slants, was a threat to go the distance no matter where he caught the ball, not just downfield.

I don't disagree with you that Devin Smith is better at those skills you mentioned, but that doesn't make him any less of a 1 trick pony. And being a good run blocker or not is probably the absolute last thing a WR should be graded on. Run blocking from the WR position is purely a matter of effort, that's why Crabtree went from being horrible in that regard to actually being good at it when Harbaugh arrived- he had no choice but to give effort.

The ironic part about is that in lieu of Devin Smith's defense... he was a less productive WR than Ginn was. HIs QB - BOTH his QB's - Braxton Miller and Cardale Jones, were a far cry from how terrible UCF's QB was, and he still had about 3/4's of the catches Perriman had.

Not saying Devin Smith is a terrible player and won't be an asset to a team in the NFL, but there is absolutely nothing in his production, game film or skill-set that logically points to him having a good chance at being an impact starter in the league.

So your implying Smith can't run a bubble screen or a slant even dummies like Patterson can do this lol and if Smith is not capable of this then he shouldn't even get drafted.

I thought in your previous comments you didn't factor statistics, but you are now to prove you point, which way is it??

So the league can't use deep threats that avg a TD once every 2.75 times they touched the ball (that sounds like a impact player to me) like you said all we have to go off is game tape and the combine. I look at how a player performs against top competition(and yes I know you put zero stock into stats in hopes to prove your point).

against the 4th rank defense of Wisconsin he had 133 yards and 3 TDs and against 8th rank defense of Michigan St (and their top CBs) he had 129 yards and a TD.

I'm not implying he is a top 3 WR but to say he will have zero impact in the NFL is laughable.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/devin-smith-vs-wisconsin-2014/- please tell me Ginn would make any of those TD catches

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/devin-smith-vs-michigan-state-2014/-I've never seen Ginn make a catch like he did at 2:06...1st 90 sec show how he's more than a deep threat.

this is a against top competition....he would help any WR corp in this league.

not sure where the "I still believe there is no way our offense will be as dynamic without Roman" can from under my post ....weird

Originally posted by NYniner85:
not sure where the "I still believe there is no way our offense will be as dynamic without Roman" can from under my post ....weird

The WZ can read minds now.