Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson - Legit alternative to Jared Goff in 2017?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why can't he play like Wilson? you act like that's all he did last year was take off out of the pocket, but a lot of those run plays (especially the title game) were designed runs and when he did scramble he was looking down field to throw. He wasn't taking stupid hits like RG3 always does either.

Mariota played last year at 215 at 6-4 which makes him thinner than a 6-2 210 Watson IMHO....I don't see why Watson couldn't throw on a couple more lbs with a full NFL off season anyway. If we have a chance at getting him you don't pass it up no way. In chip's system he's be a monster.

Because he's not Russell Wilson. Russell holds onto the ball longer than most qb's but he's so elusive and slippery that he avoids alot of the big hits. FTR I said he'd get hurt whether that happens in the pocket or on a scramble well it could be either. All you got to know is he's going take more hits and that type of body size typically doesn't hold up to it. I do think he could be a good qb but you have to factor in longevity if you're drafting him that high.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I feel like that's not our of the realm at all...looks like he's at 218 now and he's only 20.

I think he can get up to the 220+ range with absolutely no problem. The focus on his build is overstated. We're still talking about really young, physically immature players here. Give him an offseason of draft prep and I wouldn't be shocked to see him at 225ish.


I think in general the focus on QB height/weight goes too far at times. Injuries can happen to an QB, no matter how big or small. Big Ben is big as hell and has been beat up throughout his career. If a 270 pound pass rusher gets a free shot at you, it will leave a mark, no matter how big you are. At 220 pounds, Watson would be basically the same size as Aaron Rodgers when he was coming out in college.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Because he's not Russell Wilson. Russell holds onto the ball longer than most qb's but he's so elusive and slippery that he avoids alot of the big hits. FTR I said he'd get hurt whether that happens in the pocket or on a scramble well it could be either. All you got to know is he's going take more hits and that type of body size typically doesn't hold up to it. I do think he could be a good qb but you have to factor in longevity if you're drafting him that high.

The dude is 20 why can't he get bigger? He's up to 218lb and there's no reason he cant gain an extra 7lbs through out this season, combine, and a full off season in the NFL. You have no clue if he can or can't play like Wilson...none. Wilson wasn't running around like that in Wisconsin. Watson isn't running head first into players and will not be coached to do that...he's smarter than someone like RG3.

and like I said even big QBs like Big Ben who are pocket passer can get hurt.

Young was 6-2 218 lbs and played 15 yrs

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

I think he can get up to the 220+ range with absolutely no problem. The focus on his build is overstated. We're still talking about really young, physically immature players here. Give him an offseason of draft prep and I wouldn't be shocked to see him at 225ish.


I think in general the focus on QB height/weight goes too far at times. Injuries can happen to an QB, no matter how big or small. Big Ben is big as hell and has been beat up throughout his career. If a 270 pound pass rusher gets a free shot at you, it will leave a mark, no matter how big you are. At 220 pounds, Watson would be basically the same size as Aaron Rodgers when he was coming out in college.

Agreed....weight is something that can be taking care of height not so much. If that's someone's biggest issue is how much a guys weighs, I think it's more likely they just don't like the player for whatever reason...I would love to see Watson in a chip Kelly offense. Dude is smart, accurate, has a strong arm, and yes can ball out on his feet when he has to

Originally posted by NYniner85:
The dude is 20 why can't he get bigger? He's up to 218lb and there's no reason he cant gain an extra 7lbs through out this season, combine, and a full off season in the NFL. You have no clue if he can or can't play like Wilson...none. Wilson wasn't running around like that in Wisconsin. Watson isn't running head first into players and will not be coached to do that...he's smarter than someone like RG3.

and like I said even big QBs like Big Ben who are pocket passer can get hurt.

Young was 6-2 218 lbs and played 15 yrs

Sure I can. You can tell the differences between how players play. Not that I'm close to being good at that. Just it's easy to spot out what makes Wilson different. Young also had 100 different concussions which will end qb's careers today.

Watson has already broke his hand and tore his ACL in college but yeah you're right no concern at all.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

The dude is 20 why can't he get bigger? He's up to 218lb and there's no reason he cant gain an extra 7lbs through out this season, combine, and a full off season in the NFL. You have no clue if he can or can't play like Wilson...none. Wilson wasn't running around like that in Wisconsin. Watson isn't running head first into players and will not be coached to do that...he's smarter than someone like RG3.

and like I said even big QBs like Big Ben who are pocket passer can get hurt.

Young was 6-2 218 lbs and played 15 yrs

Sure I can. You can tell the differences between how players play. Not that I'm close to being good at that. Just it's easy to spot out what makes Wilson different. Young also had 100 different concussions which will end qb's careers today.

Watson has already broke his hand and tore his ACL in college but yeah you're right no concern at all.

Oh okay I'm sure you knew Wilson would be this "slippery" scrambling QB based on his college tape coming out of Wisconsin lol. He rushed for 300 yards and that was the most in his college career. Watson isn't a run 1st QB and he scrambles just like Wilson to extend plays in the passing game. A lot of Watson's runs were design plays not just him scrambling around praying not to get hit.

Frank Gore had two ACLs in college what's your point regarding that? Big Ben is 6-5 240 and gets injured, Sam Bradford is 6-4 230 and has torn ACLs, Kap is 6-4 230 and just got over 3 surgeries, Aaron Rogers is "only" 6-2 225 and doesn't get injured plus is a mobile QB?

Avg height and weight of current QBs is 6-3 220....why can't he come out of the combine weighing 225 when he's currently 218? You're putting entirely too much on how big or small a guy is and not even focusing on what he's actually good at, which is THROWING the football.

Players get hurt regardless of size that's a fact.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Oh okay I'm sure you knew Wilson would be this "slippery" scrambling QB based on his college tape coming out of Wisconsin lol. He rushed for 300 yards and that was the most in his college career. Watson isn't a run 1st QB and he scrambles just like Wilson to extend plays in the passing game. A lot of Watson's runs were design plays not just him scrambling around praying not to get hit.

Frank Gore had two ACLs in college what's your point regarding that? Big Ben is 6-5 240 and gets injured, Sam Bradford is 6-4 230 and has torn ACLs, Kap is 6-4 230 and just got over 3 surgeries, Aaron Rogers is "only" 6-2 225 and doesn't get injured plus is a mobile QB?

Avg height and weight of current QBs is 6-3 220....why can't he come out of the combine weighing 225 when he's currently 218? You're putting entirely too much on how big or small a guy is and not even focusing on what he's actually good at, which is THROWING the football.

Players get hurt regardless of size that's a fact.

Every scouting report of Wilson mentions his great elusiveness. Just because he wasn't asked to run doesn't mean you can't pick up on that. But that's what Wilson does he's just better at it because he's so slippery. He takes his fair share of hits and sacks though. Seattle was the 27th most sacked team and that's not counting the hits he takes on designed runs. Deshaun Watson will get killed doing that. You bring up Big Ben well nobody hangs in the pocket longer than he does. It's why he's so injury prone. Nobody has ever said the only people who can get hurt are guys under 6'2 215. Just they're more prone to it. Than you have the guys like Bradford who are just made of glass. It's wishful thinking that he's not going to take those hits.

I wouldn't of taken Frank Gore with the 3rd pick either with 2 ACL tears. Hey he proved people wrong but you're putting too much at stake to get it wrong.

Interesting Watson has so many haters. Dude was a sophmore, lol. And using Alabama game as proof he can't make it in the NFL? That's odd to me, I watched that game and thought Watson had a pretty good game against a really great defense. Watson created a lot of the offense.

I think Luke Falk is a legit QB too as well. Yes he is from Mike Leach's prolific passing attach, but Goff was from a prolific spread as well as Derrick Carr. For a comparison look at Holliday, Falk's predecessor, only complete 62% passes and throw 22 interceptions. Falk has completed 69% and threw only 8 picks. Yes the pass stats are inflated big time in a pass-happy offense, but that doesn't rule out a QB. A QB that can be efficient and protects the ball is significant.

People also forget that Russell Wilson played CFB before Wisconsin, at NC State he ran a spread prolific passing offense under Dana Bible (yes, the same Dana Bible Chip Kelly consulted with when building his offense and hired for the 49ers) and was scrambling down field 10 times per game. WIlson was drafted based on his 2010 work at NC State, not his work at Wisconsin IMO.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Oh okay I'm sure you knew Wilson would be this "slippery" scrambling QB based on his college tape coming out of Wisconsin lol. He rushed for 300 yards and that was the most in his college career. Watson isn't a run 1st QB and he scrambles just like Wilson to extend plays in the passing game. A lot of Watson's runs were design plays not just him scrambling around praying not to get hit.

Frank Gore had two ACLs in college what's your point regarding that? Big Ben is 6-5 240 and gets injured, Sam Bradford is 6-4 230 and has torn ACLs, Kap is 6-4 230 and just got over 3 surgeries, Aaron Rogers is "only" 6-2 225 and doesn't get injured plus is a mobile QB?

Avg height and weight of current QBs is 6-3 220....why can't he come out of the combine weighing 225 when he's currently 218? You're putting entirely too much on how big or small a guy is and not even focusing on what he's actually good at, which is THROWING the football.

Players get hurt regardless of size that's a fact.

Every scouting report of Wilson mentions his great elusiveness. Just because he wasn't asked to run doesn't mean you can't pick up on that. But that's what Wilson does he's just better at it because he's so slippery. He takes his fair share of hits and sacks though. Seattle was the 27th most sacked team and that's not counting the hits he takes on designed runs. Deshaun Watson will get killed doing that. You bring up Big Ben well nobody hangs in the pocket longer than he does. It's why he's so injury prone. Nobody has ever said the only people who can get hurt are guys under 6'2 215. Just they're more prone to it. Than you have the guys like Bradford who are just made of glass. It's wishful thinking that he's not going to take those hits.

I wouldn't of taken Frank Gore with the 3rd pick either with 2 ACL tears. Hey he proved people wrong but you're putting too much at stake to get it wrong.

Oh so Watson isn't elusive then? LOL He stands in the pocket and makes NFL caliber throws all over the place...he slides when he needs to and runs out of bounds when he can, plus he's doing it against top end defenses (FSU, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Alabama etc).



I can show plenty of highlights of Big Ben getting hit hard and not because he stands in the pocket all day....besides I'd rather have a QB that can scramble around and to extend plays avoid those big hits instead of some big slow statue.

What's there at stake? He's clearly over his ACL issue lol

It's football ANY player can get hurt at any moment regardless of size, chip's offense get's the ball out of the QB's hand quickly and Watson has shown he can do that affectedly and accurately...give me the most talent over the possibility of someone getting hurt because they don't weight 7lbs more lol.

Anyway why can't he put on a couple more lbs? He's only 20 yrs old there's NO reason why he can't add muscle, especially when that's his job come off season and the combine? It sounds more like you just don't like Watson as a player vs his "lack" of size....

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Interesting Watson has so many haters. Dude was a sophmore, lol. And using Alabama game as proof he can't make it in the NFL? That's odd to me, I watched that game and thought Watson had a pretty good game against a really great defense. Watson created a lot of the offense.

I think Luke Falk is a legit QB too as well. Yes he is from Mike Leach's prolific passing attach, but Goff was from a prolific spread as well as Derrick Carr. For a comparison look at Holliday, Falk's predecessor, only complete 62% passes and throw 22 interceptions. Falk has completed 69% and threw only 8 picks. Yes the pass stats are inflated big time in a pass-happy offense, but that doesn't rule out a QB. A QB that can be efficient and protects the ball is significant.
People also forget that Russell Wilson played CFB before Wisconsin, at NC State he ran a spread prolific passing offense under Dana Bible (yes, the same Dana Bible Chip Kelly consulted with when building his offense and hired for the 49ers) and was scrambling down field 10 times per game. WIlson was drafted based on his 2010 work at NC State, not his work at Wisconsin IMO.

It blows my mine the Watson haters....I question if they even watched him play a fill game or just watch highlights? Like you said only a sophomore and he lit up teams like Alabama. The kid is accurate, smart, has a quick release, can run (but knows when not to), has a cannon arm etc. s**t even coaches like Nick Saban said Watson was the most significant one player they've played against since Cam Newton.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/07/20/deshaun-watson-nick-saban-cam-newton-best-college-player

Wilson did have something like 400 yards rushing one season at NC state that is true.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Oh so Watson isn't elusive then? LOL He stands in the pocket and makes NFL caliber throws all over the place...he slides when he needs to and runs out of bounds when he can, plus he's doing it against top end defenses (FSU, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Alabama etc).



I can show plenty of highlights of Big Ben getting hit hard and not because he stands in the pocket all day....besides I'd rather have a QB that can scramble around and to extend plays avoid those big hits instead of some big slow statue.

What's there at stake? He's clearly over his ACL issue lol

It's football ANY player can get hurt at any moment regardless of size, chip's offense get's the ball out of the QB's hand quickly and Watson has shown he can do that affectedly and accurately...give me the most talent over the possibility of someone getting hurt because they don't weight 7lbs more lol.

Anyway why can't he put on a couple more lbs? He's only 20 yrs old there's NO reason why he can't add muscle, especially when that's his job come off season and the combine? It sounds more like you just don't like Watson as a player vs his "lack" of size....

They all do it against top college defenses whether it's Tebow, Young, Newton, Russell, Winston. College football can't handle an athletic qb . It's been shown time and time again over the past decade. Granted I give you he makes NFL throws and has great vision.

As for the statues Brady and Manning do just fine. I don't have a preference other than one stays on the field.

Any player can get hurt so I'm just not going to factor that in. LOL. FTR I'm not a hater on him I just wouldn't take him top 3 which is what he's going to go. We're not going to be there anyways so.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

They all do it against top college defenses whether it's Tebow, Young, Newton, Russell, Winston. College football can't handle an athletic qb . It's been shown time and time again over the past decade. Granted I give you he makes NFL throws and has great vision.

As for the statues Brady and Manning do just fine. I don't have a preference other than one stays on the field.

Any player can get hurt so I'm just not going to factor that in. LOL. FTR I'm not a hater on him I just wouldn't take him top 3 which is what he's going to go. We're not going to be there anyways so.

I can't see how we aren't gonna be there to be honest...brutal schedule, new staff, and a lot of young players. I think we will actually look like a football team (compared to last yr) but unless one of our current qbs have some sort of rebirth we will be drafting high because of bad QB play.

All in

Yea the he throws to guys wide open in college argument is losing me. Like Luck, Mariota, or Winston threw all their passes in tight windows vs tough college competition.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Yea the he throws to guys wide open in college argument is losing me. Like Luck, Mariota, or Winston threw all their passes in tight windows vs tough college competition.

Winston and Luck did, especially Winston. He threw the ball into tighter windows than he needed to forcing some throws at Florida State. That's a legitimate argument for Watson, but he has shown plenty of arm talent and accuracy in my opinion. I'm more worried about how he'd play behind a bad offensive line.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Yea the he throws to guys wide open in college argument is losing me. Like Luck, Mariota, or Winston threw all their passes in tight windows vs tough college competition.

Winston and Luck did, especially Winston. He threw the ball into tighter windows than he needed to forcing some throws at Florida State. That's a legitimate argument for Watson, but he has shown plenty of arm talent and accuracy in my opinion. I'm more worried about how he'd play behind a bad offensive line.

Hopefully if he did come here he wouldn't have to worry about that...Chip's system of getting the ball out quick helps with PP.