Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson - Legit alternative to Jared Goff in 2017?

Originally posted by genus49:
Goff's mechanics and pocket presence was much better than Watsons and those are two key attributes for NFL. He does some things better than Goff and certainly has better athletic ability but I wouldn't say it's fair to say he's better than Goff. At least not if you're looking at NFL potential IMO.

Goff is the better pocket passer and that's what you want in your NFL QB first.

how can you assume that? goff never showed up against legitimate teams in college

Originally posted by FaTaL:

Originally posted by genus49:
Goff's mechanics and pocket presence was much better than Watsons and those are two key attributes for NFL. He does some things better than Goff and certainly has better athletic ability but I wouldn't say it's fair to say he's better than Goff. At least not if you're looking at NFL potential IMO.

Goff is the better pocket passer and that's what you want in your NFL QB first.

how can you assume that? goff never showed up against legitimate teams in college

This is blatantly false. He consistently put up numbers against tough schedules (Cal was 10th in SOS in 2015, 38th in 2014, and 4th in 2013 according to Sagarin rankings). He played well several times against good teams even when his team lost. It's not his fault his team sucked and couldn't run the ball or play defense. I'm a pretty big Watson fan and love his potential, but you're severely underestimating Goff.

Against ranked teams:
2013 (as a true freshman on a 1-11 team):
Northwestern: threw for 450 yards and 2 TD's but also 3 Int's in his first college football game
Ohio State: 371 yards, 3 TD's 1 Int against the #4 team in the country
@Oregon: 3/6, no TD's or Int's (only played part of the game)
@UCLA: 215 yards, 1 Int
@Stanford: 10/19 194 yards, 1 TD 0 Int's (split time with Kline again)

2014:
Oregon: 316 yards, 2 TD's 0 Int's (Oregon was ranked #6 on a neutral field, lost 41-59)

2015:
@Utah: 340 yards, 2 TD's 5 Int's (the first 2 interceptions were his receivers' fault and another was tipped at the line of scrimmage - this was his worst game of the year and he still wasn't that bad)
@Stanford: 386 yards, 2 TD's 0 Int's

In 7 games where he threw at least 10 passes against ranked teams, Goff showed up in at least 5 of them (all but UCLA and Utah). You could easily make an argument that he showed up against Utah as well, but the rest of his team did not.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

This is blatantly false. He consistently put up numbers against tough schedules (Cal was 10th in SOS in 2015, 38th in 2014, and 4th in 2013 according to Sagarin rankings). He played well several times against good teams even when his team lost. It's not his fault his team sucked and couldn't run the ball or play defense. I'm a pretty big Watson fan and love his potential, but you're severely underestimating Goff.

Against ranked teams:
2013 (as a true freshman on a 1-11 team):
Northwestern: threw for 450 yards and 2 TD's but also 3 Int's in his first college football game
Ohio State: 371 yards, 3 TD's 1 Int against the #4 team in the country
@Oregon: 3/6, no TD's or Int's (only played part of the game)
@UCLA: 215 yards, 1 Int
@Stanford: 10/19 194 yards, 1 TD 0 Int's (split time with Kline again)

2014:
Oregon: 316 yards, 2 TD's 0 Int's (Oregon was ranked #6 on a neutral field, lost 41-59)

2015:
@Utah: 340 yards, 2 TD's 5 Int's (the first 2 interceptions were his receivers' fault and another was tipped at the line of scrimmage - this was his worst game of the year and he still wasn't that bad)
@Stanford: 386 yards, 2 TD's 0 Int's

In 7 games where he threw at least 10 passes against ranked teams, Goff showed up in at least 5 of them (all but UCLA and Utah). You could easily make an argument that he showed up against Utah as well, but the rest of his team did not.

How many INTs he have at the Utah game?

I honestly don't understand how anyone could question DW4's pocket presence or ability to throw from the pocket. He has that ridiculous sixth sense that he put on display time and time again against Bama. He's up to 218 pounds as of last week and looks to have added some good weight this offseason. He is going to be insane this year with Mike Williams coming back and the other returning and new skill players.

His coach said as a freshman that DW4 was not a running QB but that he was Tom Brady with legs. The Tom Brady part was obviously hyperbolic, but the point was that he is not the traditional college QB who is overly reliant upon his legs/athleticism at the expense of his passing development. Yes, he succeeds at rolling out and running downfield when the pocket breaks down, all the while keeping his eyes downfield for passing opportunities. But he is also adept at throwing from the pocket in a traditional sense to all areas of the field.

So he's not a run-first QB eh.



That's 19 run-firsts altogether, 4 were for read-option.

He also stared down and missed 4 wide open receivers, one for an INT in the endzone.

The hype on this kid is through the roof.......THE ROOF I tell ya!!!!

I remembered when they called Manziel the next Steve Young.

Seriously, if the 49ers wanted this type of play from a QB, Dak Presscott could've been a 49er for much less. Watson just doesn't impress me, but yah keep going on about how he's not a run-first QB, some of you like to hit me with the Alabama game, but why does this game get disregarded??

Originally posted by Kolohe:
So he's not a run-first QB eh.



That's 19 run-firsts altogether, 4 were for read-option.

He also stared down and missed 4 wide open receivers, one for an INT in the endzone.

The hype on this kid is through the roof.......THE ROOF I tell ya!!!!

I remembered when they called Manziel the next Steve Young.

Seriously, if the 49ers wanted this type of play from a QB, Dak Presscott could've been a 49er for much less. Watson just doesn't impress me, but yah keep going on about how he's not a run-first QB, some of you like to hit me with the Alabama game, but why does this game get disregarded??

Interesting that you picked a game from over a year ago. I think he's developed a lot since then, but I also think it show's that he's not a run-first guy. Most of those runs were designed runs (a LOT of designed QB draws), so he wasn't exactly bailing out of the pocket a bunch on pass plays. The interception was a bad forced throw, and he missed on a couple of throws he'd want back (every QB does that in almost every game).

The runs were called by his OC, who likes the advantage that a running QB provides. It was their bowl game, and they had no reason to hold anything back (like Kap in the playoffs vs GB and Seattle). Chip would do that, too, though probably not 19 times in a game.

I think he's an accurate passer with good pocket presence/escapability and a good arm. His running ability and toughness are plusses.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Interesting that you picked a game from over a year ago. I think he's developed a lot since then, but I also think it show's that he's not a run-first guy. Most of those runs were designed runs (a LOT of designed QB draws), so he wasn't exactly bailing out of the pocket a bunch on pass plays. The interception was a bad forced throw, and he missed on a couple of throws he'd want back (every QB does that in almost every game).

The runs were called by his OC, who likes the advantage that a running QB provides. It was their bowl game, and they had no reason to hold anything back (like Kap in the playoffs vs GB and Seattle). Chip would do that, too, though probably not 19 times in a game.

I think he's an accurate passer with good pocket presence/escapability and a good arm. His running ability and toughness are plusses.

That game was from this past season, what else do I have to go by??

There were 19 runs and from that video,some designed and some where he stared down his first read then bailed. I mean so if by design he's a system QB then correct?? If you'd like I can post another video of the same, but to sit there and tell me this guy would've been the number 1 overall pick over Jared Goff is laughable. Not only does Goff show much better poise in the pocket than Watson and ability to go through his reads, but his height and weight would've also made him the clear cut choice over Watson too, and for those that think otherwise, well all I can say is they haven't been watching the draft that long.

But yah, I'm just not seeing or buying the hype on this guy. I'd take Luke Falk over this kid in a heartbeat.

Kid threw for 4000 yards last year. As a true freshman the previous season he was ranked with Mariota at the top of efficiency ratings for QBs. His first start as a true freshman at Clemson he set the school record with 6 TD passes. He played a full game with a torn ACL and then came back leas than a year later to start all 15 games.

Does any of the above suggest "run-first" to you? The Clemson coaches fully admitted they even kept him from running until the ND game due to his ACL injury the previous November. They treated him with kid gloves and discouraged him from running until the back half of the season.

You can pick apart the Oklahoma game. That's fine. He's not perfect, although I'd challenge you to find a better NFL throw than the one he made to Renfrow on a deep out that beat the DB's hands by 6 inches and allowed Renfrow to turn upfield for a 45 yard TD. By the second half, Clemson had Oklahoma's defense worn out and smartly chose to grind them down with Watson and Gallman running all over them. The gameplan was a big reason they won the second half 21-0 and cruised.

Put on the tape of the Bama game, which featured what was considered an alltime great defense. Keep in mind by the playoffs he was missing not only Mike Williams but five star freshman Deon Cain who became the go-to deep ball receiver over the course of the season.

No idea how anyone could watch him consistently and think run first. He throws lasers and always keeps his eyes downfield. Again, 4K yards without his best receiver for all but one drive of the season (he threw a TD to him on that drive ).

Correction, he passed for 1,400 yards his freshman year.

(I don't have time right now, gotta get back to work, I just wanted to throw that out there)

(oops read that wrong)

Lol at saying "watching him consistently" then only mentioning his one great game vs.Alabama. I get it, you're a big fan, I'm not speaking for everyone, but I just don't see anything special.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Lol at saying "watching him consistently" then only mentioning his one great game vs.Alabama. I get it, you're a big fan, I'm not speaking for everyone, but I just don't see anything special.

Dude was a Heisman finalist before he ever stepped foot on the field against Oklahoma. Also was first team AA QB and ACC Player of the Year before taking the field for the playoffs.

Doesn't sound like someone with only one good game on his resume to me. First ever QB in NCAA history to go for 4K passing and 1K rushing, so probably mixed in a few good performances other than Bama I'm guessing.

You honestly seem to be very unfamiliar with him.

He didn't pass for that much as a freshman because he had to overtake a senior QB and had a broken collarbone that spring before breaking his hand in his third start and then tearing his ACL in his first game back on a non-contact play. He then came back for the SCAR game and played with the torn ACL and put up 35 points.

I would encourage you to pull up youtube clips of his freshman games vs UGA, FSU, UNC, and NCST. He scored 10 TDs in his first two starts as a true freshman, both against D1 schools.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Interesting that you picked a game from over a year ago. I think he's developed a lot since then, but I also think it show's that he's not a run-first guy. Most of those runs were designed runs (a LOT of designed QB draws), so he wasn't exactly bailing out of the pocket a bunch on pass plays. The interception was a bad forced throw, and he missed on a couple of throws he'd want back (every QB does that in almost every game).

The runs were called by his OC, who likes the advantage that a running QB provides. It was their bowl game, and they had no reason to hold anything back (like Kap in the playoffs vs GB and Seattle). Chip would do that, too, though probably not 19 times in a game.

I think he's an accurate passer with good pocket presence/escapability and a good arm. His running ability and toughness are plusses.

That game was from this past season, what else do I have to go by??

There were 19 runs and from that video,some designed and some where he stared down his first read then bailed. I mean so if by design he's a system QB then correct?? If you'd like I can post another video of the same, but to sit there and tell me this guy would've been the number 1 overall pick over Jared Goff is laughable. Not only does Goff show much better poise in the pocket than Watson and ability to go through his reads, but his height and weight would've also made him the clear cut choice over Watson too, and for those that think otherwise, well all I can say is they haven't been watching the draft that long.

But yah, I'm just not seeing or buying the hype on this guy. I'd take Luke Falk over this kid in a heartbeat.

My fault; I saw 2015 bowl game and assumed it was a 2015 bowl game from the 2014 season.

I'm not used to the top 4 teams playing in two bowl games. I'm old, not afraid to admit it.

^^ That said, I think he sold the draw pretty well. It looks very much like he's locked onto one WR before he bails, but he's pulling coverage away from his running lane. You can tell because the OL turn upfield at the same time, and he has a clear hole to run through.

Clemson worked their offensive gameplan to perfection for most of the game against Oklahoma. Not sure how Watson can be criticized when Gallman went way over 100 yards as well. The announcers alluded to the fact that Gallman seemed to be playing at a different speed then everyone else the second half largely because Watson shouldered the burden in the first half. Then Gallman dominated the second half and Clemson took the air out of the ball apart from Watson throwing that frozen rope for the TD to Renfrow.

Y'all wasting your time on here. One way or another, he won't be a niner next year.