Patrick Mahomes QB

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Honestly, drafting this kid with a 2nd or higher would scare me a bit. Immense talent, but huge risk.

If we acquire Tony Romo, id be okay with grabbing him in the second and having him learn for 2 years.

Tony Romo will want to go to a team that's ready to compete for a ring. Broncos, Cardinals(yes I think they would drop Palmer for him) and Jets come to mind

Originally posted by jersey49er:

idk if he does..its not like Texas Tech is good..he proved himself last year and this year..i think we all know what he brings tot he table while we know what needs work..staying at TT isn't going to help him with his weaknesses

He did say he plans on staying...doesn't makes sense to me have to wait and see

Still think he's a 3rd round pick based on all the other talent at other positons in the top 64 picks...he reminds me of Dak but not as polished.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jersey49er:
idk if he does..its not like Texas Tech is good..he proved himself last year and this year..i think we all know what he brings tot he table while we know what needs work..staying at TT isn't going to help him with his weaknesses

He did say he plans on staying...doesn't makes sense to me have to wait and see

Still think he's a 3rd round pick based on all the other talent at other positons in the top 64 picks...he reminds me of Dak but not as polished.

Every player says that before the season ends. Coaches are even worse about it, Tom Herman was saying he was staying at Houston and a day later signed with Texas.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
He did say he plans on staying...doesn't makes sense to me have to wait and see

Still think he's a 3rd round pick based on all the other talent at other positons in the top 64 picks...he reminds me of Dak but not as polished.

Definitely not as polished. He has all the physical tools, good elusiveness as well but he's going to need work to become a dependable passer from the pocket.

Originally posted by jersey49er:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:
Honestly, drafting this kid with a 2nd or higher would scare me a bit. Immense talent, but huge risk.

If we acquire Tony Romo, id be okay with grabbing him in the second and having him learn for 2 years.

yeah sitting him a year has to be a definite, Romo isn't even in the cards for me..he will be a bronco or a jet next year..my thinking is hopefully Kap continues to get better and better and stays and Mahomes sits behind him..if Mahomes comes out hes a type of QB Chip will be intrigued by..can be his project..

yeah thatd be the more realistic scenario. Although im hoping Chip doesnt stay too long

Originally posted by Jcool:
Every player says that before the season ends. Coaches are even worse about it, Tom Herman was saying he was staying at Houston and a day later signed with Texas.

This is true

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Definitely not as polished. He has all the physical tools, good elusiveness as well but he's going to need work to become a dependable passer from the pocket.

absolutely that's why he will drop a little...he's got some tools to work with gonna need some time, I think he should leave just so he can start working on his craft cause it's not gonna happen at TTech.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
The QB on the team that you guys love, knew how to run an offense the way Harbaugh favored, and yes he had a strong arm to go along with that. Right now all you're looking at is Mahomes 5,000 passing yards and strong arm. Kliff Kingsbury probably had the best pocket awareness and accurate arm in college football back in 2002 and the dude went in the 6th round. Now all of a sudden Texas tech has a QB with a strong arm, mobile and throws for 5,000 yards and everything you people have said about the Air Raid gets thrown out the window.

Have a nice day.

According to who?

Says the NCAA or did you think Kingsbury earned all those first place stats in 2002 because he plays playstation.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
The QB on the team that you guys love, knew how to run an offense the way Harbaugh favored, and yes he had a strong arm to go along with that. Right now all you're looking at is Mahomes 5,000 passing yards and strong arm. Kliff Kingsbury probably had the best pocket awareness and accurate arm in college football back in 2002 and the dude went in the 6th round. Now all of a sudden Texas tech has a QB with a strong arm, mobile and throws for 5,000 yards and everything you people have said about the Air Raid gets thrown out the window.

Have a nice day.

According to who?

Says the NCAA or did you think Kingsbury earned all those first place stats in 2002 because he plays playstation.

First place stats? In 2002 Tech finished 3rd in the Big 12 South. Chris Brown (RB) won conference player of the year. He also finished 4th in the nation in completions percentage, notable QBs ahead of him Byron Leftwich & Matt Schaub. He was also outside of the top 10 in passer rating & YPA. Having the most yards and TD's doesn't make you the most accurate just means you threw the ball more then anyone else.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
The QB on the team that you guys love, knew how to run an offense the way Harbaugh favored, and yes he had a strong arm to go along with that. Right now all you're looking at is Mahomes 5,000 passing yards and strong arm. Kliff Kingsbury probably had the best pocket awareness and accurate arm in college football back in 2002 and the dude went in the 6th round. Now all of a sudden Texas tech has a QB with a strong arm, mobile and throws for 5,000 yards and everything you people have said about the Air Raid gets thrown out the window.

Have a nice day.

According to who?

Says the NCAA or did you think Kingsbury earned all those first place stats in 2002 because he plays playstation.

Says the NCAA??? He played in an Air Raid offense and you're going to try to use his college stats as evidence that he had the most accurate arm? As others have pointed out, Air Raid QBs typically have completion percentages of 65-70% even if they aren't especially talented. B.J. Symons put up numbers just as good in 2003. Graham Harrell put up better numbers in 2007-2008, but was considered a one-read QB without great deep accuracy coming out of college. No one is going to pick Mahomes in the first 3 rounds because of his stats coming out of that offense - if he declares for the NFL, he'll be taken as a project due to his considerable upside (athleticism, arm strength), but there's no way of knowing if he's NFL ready now coming out of that offense.

For what it's worth, Mahomes' stats as a junior are also much better than Kingsbury's were as a junior or senior. He has more passing yards through 2 fewer games and 8.5 yards per attempt instead of 7.0. He's also a much more effective runner and has a better arm. They aren't really comparable as draft prospects. Mahomes is raw, but looks like a 2nd or 3rd round pick when he chooses to come out. There's plenty of reasons why he should be selected several rounds before Kingsbury was (age, size, athleticism, arm talent, better stats with less supporting talent).

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
The QB on the team that you guys love, knew how to run an offense the way Harbaugh favored, and yes he had a strong arm to go along with that. Right now all you're looking at is Mahomes 5,000 passing yards and strong arm. Kliff Kingsbury probably had the best pocket awareness and accurate arm in college football back in 2002 and the dude went in the 6th round. Now all of a sudden Texas tech has a QB with a strong arm, mobile and throws for 5,000 yards and everything you people have said about the Air Raid gets thrown out the window.

Have a nice day.

According to who?

Says the NCAA or did you think Kingsbury earned all those first place stats in 2002 because he plays playstation.

First place stats? In 2002 Tech finished 3rd in the Big 12 South. Chris Brown (RB) won conference player of the year. He also finished 4th in the nation in completions percentage, notable QBs ahead of him Byron Leftwich & Matt Schaub. He was also outside of the top 10 in passer rating & YPA. Having the most yards and TD's doesn't make you the most accurate just means you threw the ball more then anyone else.

Yes first place stats, he owns 7 that year.

Um look again, Kingsbury has 180 more pass completions than Brian Jones, Leftwich and Schaub. Truly you aren't just gonna use that stat to prove me wrong. smh.

Kingsbury won the Sammy Baugh trophy that year, that alone should pretty much prove my point. And if you want to bring up all his Youtube videos be my guess.

Oh yah didn't I just say pocket awareness too, funny how you don't argue that. my work is done here.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
The QB on the team that you guys love, knew how to run an offense the way Harbaugh favored, and yes he had a strong arm to go along with that. Right now all you're looking at is Mahomes 5,000 passing yards and strong arm. Kliff Kingsbury probably had the best pocket awareness and accurate arm in college football back in 2002 and the dude went in the 6th round. Now all of a sudden Texas tech has a QB with a strong arm, mobile and throws for 5,000 yards and everything you people have said about the Air Raid gets thrown out the window.

Have a nice day.

According to who?

Says the NCAA or did you think Kingsbury earned all those first place stats in 2002 because he plays playstation.

Says the NCAA??? He played in an Air Raid offense and you're going to try to use his college stats as evidence that he had the most accurate arm? As others have pointed out, Air Raid QBs typically have completion percentages of 65-70% even if they aren't especially talented. B.J. Symons put up numbers just as good in 2003. Graham Harrell put up better numbers in 2007-2008, but was considered a one-read QB without great deep accuracy coming out of college. No one is going to pick Mahomes in the first 3 rounds because of his stats coming out of that offense - if he declares for the NFL, he'll be taken as a project due to his considerable upside (athleticism, arm strength), but there's no way of knowing if he's NFL ready now coming out of that offense.

For what it's worth, Mahomes' stats as a junior are also much better than Kingsbury's were as a junior or senior. He has more passing yards through 2 fewer games and 8.5 yards per attempt instead of 7.0. He's also a much more effective runner and has a better arm. They aren't really comparable as draft prospects. Mahomes is raw, but looks like a 2nd or 3rd round pick when he chooses to come out. There's plenty of reasons why he should be selected several rounds before Kingsbury was (age, size, athleticism, arm talent, better stats with less supporting talent).

The fact you are even comparing Mahomes and Kingsbury's stats is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

(If you went back and read my full arguement that is)

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yes first place stats, he owns 7 that year.

Um look again, Kingsbury has 180 more pass completions than Brian Jones, Leftwich and Schaub. Truly you aren't just gonna use that stat to prove me wrong. smh.

Kingsbury won the Sammy Baugh trophy that year, that alone should pretty much prove my point. And if you want to bring up all his Youtube videos be my guess.

Oh yah didn't I just say pocket awareness too, funny how you don't argue that. my work is done here.

I guess you missed when i said just because he passed the ball more doesn't mean he was more accurate. He had more completions because he attempted 712 passes that year. Is David Webb (61.6%) more accurate then Mitch Trubisky (68.9%) because Webb has 101 more completed passes?

As far as the Sammy Baugh trophy... If you can explain to me what exactly "the nation's top college passer" means, i would like to know. Since last years winner Matt Johnson was pretty much out done in every statistical category by Brandon Doughty. Seems they just give it out to whoever puts up big numbers, not whoever lead in the most categories or had the highest accuracy.

With the Pocket awareness claim. If you can explain how he was tops at that i would like to know. Since he last played 14 years ago at a school that was not on TV every week back then and YouTube or live streaming wasn't a thing yet.

FYI this entire argument was about accuracy and pocket awareness not who put up the most stats that year. I think you lost this one.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

The QB on the team that you guys love, knew how to run an offense the way Harbaugh favored, and yes he had a strong arm to go along with that. Right now all you're looking at is Mahomes 5,000 passing yards and strong arm. Kliff Kingsbury probably had the best pocket awareness and accurate arm in college football back in 2002 and the dude went in the 6th round. Now all of a sudden Texas tech has a QB with a strong arm, mobile and throws for 5,000 yards and everything you people have said about the Air Raid gets thrown out the window.

Have a nice day.

According to who?

Says the NCAA or did you think Kingsbury earned all those first place stats in 2002 because he plays playstation.

Says the NCAA??? He played in an Air Raid offense and you're going to try to use his college stats as evidence that he had the most accurate arm? As others have pointed out, Air Raid QBs typically have completion percentages of 65-70% even if they aren't especially talented. B.J. Symons put up numbers just as good in 2003. Graham Harrell put up better numbers in 2007-2008, but was considered a one-read QB without great deep accuracy coming out of college. No one is going to pick Mahomes in the first 3 rounds because of his stats coming out of that offense - if he declares for the NFL, he'll be taken as a project due to his considerable upside (athleticism, arm strength), but there's no way of knowing if he's NFL ready now coming out of that offense.

For what it's worth, Mahomes' stats as a junior are also much better than Kingsbury's were as a junior or senior. He has more passing yards through 2 fewer games and 8.5 yards per attempt instead of 7.0. He's also a much more effective runner and has a better arm. They aren't really comparable as draft prospects. Mahomes is raw, but looks like a 2nd or 3rd round pick when he chooses to come out. There's plenty of reasons why he should be selected several rounds before Kingsbury was (age, size, athleticism, arm talent, better stats with less supporting talent).

The fact you are even comparing Mahomes and Kingsbury's stats is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

(If you went back and read my full arguement that is)

Your argument was that Kingsbury fell to the 6th round due to playing in the Air Raid offense and we aren't penalizing Mahomes enough for playing in that offense.

My argument was that Mahomes is a better prospect across the board than Kingsbury so a 2nd-3rd round grade already incorporates discounting his stats for the type of offense he was in. I only compared their stats because your entire argument that Kingsbury was better (more accurate and had better pocket awareness) was based on his stats and winning an award for those stats in college. Mahomes has better stats in addition to being younger, bigger, and more athletic, and having more arm talent. He also put up those stats without as much talent around him. The QB after Kingsbury was just as good with a very similar roster in 2003.

Factoring in the offense they played in, Kingsbury was a 6th round prospect and Mahomes is a 2nd or 3rd round prospect in my opinion. They are very different prospects.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by tohara3:
Kid has almost 400 yards & 5 TD's in the 1st half tonight. Would love to see this kid in Chip Kelly's offense

Keep in mind a lot of those are YAC. The last TD was 62 yards and 40 of them were after the catch & on the 80 yard TD, 55 were YAC. But it is a nice bounce back game from last week.

Most 62 yard and 80 yard TDs in the nfl are a lot of YAC. Joe's the best ever, and his most famous tangible trait was ball placement that allowed his WRs to catch in stride and maximize YAC.

This. No adjustment to that ball was needed. I suppose this is why I (and probably most 49ers fans) value that trait so much.