Patrick Mahomes QB

I see a lot of Collin Kaepernick in this guy. Kind of like cam Newton as well. They have happy feet in the pocket and they do not go through their progressions that well. They have great arms but again always looking to run or move around and throw. This is not a natural passer we do not need him. We cannot deal with another Colin Kaepernick even if he is a little Better of a passer it's still the same s**t different toilet.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Jcool:
Not it doesn't. Matt Ryan threw 19 INTs (31 TDs) as a senior and was the first QB taken in the draft (#3 overall). Jameis Winston went #1 overall throwing 18 INTs (25 TDs) as a sophomore.

+ Show all quotes

Never said it was the absolute way of picking a qb. You have to dive deeper than just looking at those, otherwise nothing but air raid qb's would be picked.

Wanna know a funny coincidence? RBs and WR's taken first usually have the most yards or touchdowns. Defenders will usually have the most tackles, sacks or picks in their position. O line will usually have the least sacks given up and so on.

throwing Watson and Ryan's stats doesn't make sense both of them came from pro style offenses not an air raid offense huge difference regarding TDs,yards, and INTs IMO.

Kinda disagree about players with the highest stats are usually the higher picks though.

Damn NY, I was just about to post that about Ryan and Winston.

omg, you guys think Winston's offense was a "pro style offense" lol

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

omg, you guys think Winston's offense was a "pro style offense" lol

https://www.google.com/amp/www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-state-seminoles/chopping-block/os-fsu-offense-complex-pro-20150511-post,amp.html?client=safari

Yeah okay lol

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/jameis-winston?id=2552485

Bottom Line

"Winston is a big, highly competitive pocket passer who played in a pro-style offense and showed an ability to anticipate throwing windows, scan the entire field and make the NFL throws. His wind-up delivery and marginal mobility outside the pocket are reminiscent of Byron Leftwich, but his arm talent and issues with decision making are more in line with Eli Manning's. Winston's football potential is clearer than so-called "system" or "one-read" quarterbacks, but every stone must be overturned in an attempt to piece together a predictive character profile on Winston. Winston's supreme confidence might be considered arrogance by some, but even that trait will be alluring to teams who need to find a franchise quarterback."

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Draftology:
I'm sorry. I just don't see it with this guy. He reminds me a lot of Vince Young - very similar throwing motion. I've yet to see him actually go through a full progression. He gets happy feet in the pocket and bails whenever he gets a chance. I wouldn't take him in the first three rounds.

totally agree!

I agree..Weird mechanics, throwes football up for grabs., strange footwork..

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
omg, you guys think Winston's offense was a "pro style offense" lol

https://www.google.com/amp/www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-state-seminoles/chopping-block/os-fsu-offense-complex-pro-20150511-post,amp.html?client=safari

Yeah okay lol

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/jameis-winston?id=2552485

Bottom Line

"Winston is a big, highly competitive pocket passer who played in a pro-style offense and showed an ability to anticipate throwing windows, scan the entire field and make the NFL throws. His wind-up delivery and marginal mobility outside the pocket are reminiscent of Byron Leftwich, but his arm talent and issues with decision making are more in line with Eli Manning's. Winston's football potential is clearer than so-called "system" or "one-read" quarterbacks, but every stone must be overturned in an attempt to piece together a predictive character profile on Winston. Winston's supreme confidence might be considered arrogance by some, but even that trait will be alluring to teams who need to find a franchise quarterback."

your proof of Winston's college offense being Pro-style is a fluff homer piece? lol

Go look at any clip of FSU, its a Spread offense

A more athletic Neil Lomax......That's right, I said NEIL LOMAX, of run and shoot fame.

Here is a good description of the Spread variances. Winston comes from the "pro-style" spread, but IMO that name is a total misnomer, a more accurate name is "multiple" spread.

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2016/5/6/11606684/the-4-main-schools-of-spread-offense-smashmouth-option-air-raid-pro-style

As you will also see, the main calling card of Air Raid is the use of short passes, typically in 4-Wide sets that eliminates the run game. And the Air Raid is actually a variation of WCO, and it really empowers weak armed QBs. So often you will see weak armed, but accurate, QBs look amazing in an Air Raid. They flop in the NFL because they don't have the arm strength and release speed to hit timing routes and tight windows.

So when assessing an Air Raid QB, you have to throw out a lot of their stats, completion percentage etc out the window because it doesn't tell you anything about a QB in the NFL when they complete a 5 yard dump off pass who runs it 50 yards. I've said this repeatedly about Peterman and many of the same Mahomes haters say Peterman is being smart with the ball lol. You guys are using total double standards.

What sets Mahomes apart from other Air Raid QBs is the type of throws he is making and his arm. Most Air Raid QBs don't have cannon arms (ie Nick Foles).

And I'm willing to bet most NFL scouts/GMs would agree with my assessments. Its why Goff went #1. Him coming from an Air Raid didn't mean much. And ofcourse Goff struggled his first year but just watch him improve quite a bit with a decent HC now.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
your proof of Winston's college offense being Pro-style is a fluff homer piece? lol

Go look at any clip of FSU, its a Spread offense

And yet you didn't even read it and just called it a fluff piece cause it proved you wrong

From Koetter....

"Heck, Florida State was probably installing more stuff per day [this spring] than we do," Koetter told reporters at the Bucs' rookie camp on Monday. "I've known about Jimbo Fisher and his style of offense for a long time, they truly do run an NFL-style system. They ask a lot of their guys, mentally.

"Koetter was not the first member of the Bucs' franchise to laude FSU's system as a helpful tool to gauge how a quarterback could adapt to a pro-style offense in the NFL.

"Playing in a pro-style system helped," Tampa Bay coach Lovie Smith said the night the Bucs drafted Winston. "You look at, Jimbo did a great job at Florida State, and we saw him in a lot of the same situations that you'll see him in in the NFL. That was just a part of it."

Fisher's offensive philosophy has often been described as complex; his quarterbacks are asked to make several reads and checks on passing plays, and receivers are required to know how to run a full route tree and usually have different options on what patterns to run based on what a defense does in coverage. The sophistication of this offense increased under Winston, who had the innate ability to quickly learn concepts and then properly apply them."

And don't tell me to go watch clips I've been a Noles fan for 15+ yrs... it is not a straight out spread offense there are plenty of pro-style elements to it. More than most college programs.

Originally posted by elguapo:
I see a lot of Collin Kaepernick in this guy. Kind of like cam Newton as well. They have happy feet in the pocket and they do not go through their progressions that well. They have great arms but again always looking to run or move around and throw. This is not a natural passer we do not need him. We cannot deal with another Colin Kaepernick even if he is a little Better of a passer it's still the same s**t different toilet.

They seem like completely different QBs to me. Kap would never try to make the throws Mahomes attempts. Just because they both have strong arms doesn't make them similar QBs.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by elguapo:
I see a lot of Collin Kaepernick in this guy. Kind of like cam Newton as well. They have happy feet in the pocket and they do not go through their progressions that well. They have great arms but again always looking to run or move around and throw. This is not a natural passer we do not need him. We cannot deal with another Colin Kaepernick even if he is a little Better of a passer it's still the same s**t different toilet.

They seem like completely different QBs to me. Kap would never try to make the throws Mahomes attempts. Just because they both have strong arms doesn't make them similar QBs.

He is more of a taller Wilson to me. He scrambles and looks to throw instead of tucking and running it.

Would love this guy in the second round

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by elguapo:
I see a lot of Collin Kaepernick in this guy. Kind of like cam Newton as well. They have happy feet in the pocket and they do not go through their progressions that well. They have great arms but again always looking to run or move around and throw. This is not a natural passer we do not need him. We cannot deal with another Colin Kaepernick even if he is a little Better of a passer it's still the same s**t different toilet.

They seem like completely different QBs to me. Kap would never try to make the throws Mahomes attempts. Just because they both have strong arms doesn't make them similar QBs.

Exactly....absolutely polar opposite QBs. The feel that Mahomes has both in the pocket and out and for when to throw a laser and when/how to use touch is something only Kap can dream about. No doubt Mahomes must clean up his footwork, but so did Joe, Steve and Jeff when then came to the Niners. It's a learnable thing, but his arm talent and intuitive feel for playing the position is something you're either born with or not.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by elguapo:

I see a lot of Collin Kaepernick in this guy. Kind of like cam Newton as well. They have happy feet in the pocket and they do not go through their progressions that well. They have great arms but again always looking to run or move around and throw. This is not a natural passer we do not need him. We cannot deal with another Colin Kaepernick even if he is a little Better of a passer it's still the same s**t different toilet.

They seem like completely different QBs to me. Kap would never try to make the throws Mahomes attempts. Just because they both have strong arms doesn't make them similar QBs.

Exactly....absolutely polar opposite QBs. The feel that Mahomes has both in the pocket and out and for when to throw a laser and when/how to use touch is something only Kap can dream about. No doubt Mahomes must clean up his footwork, but so did Joe, Steve and Jeff when then came to the Niners. It's a learnable thing, but his arm talent and intuitive feel for playing the position is something you're either born with or not.

I don't agree at all. From watching some of his games and all of his highlights he does do a lot of things Kaepernick does. He's very questionable with his progressions. He does have a strong arm he runs around a lot that sounds almost exactly like Collin Kaepernick. Collin Kaepernick made a lot of laser throws and great throws his first two years starting so I think that is wrong when you say he wouldn't attempt the same throws. You will see when he gets into the NFL and starts some games that he looks to run quite a bit, doesn't go through his reads all that well, but has a very strong arm. Very similar to Kaepernick. If we draft him I don't think he will be good at all or even have a year like Collin did in 2012 but I hope I'm wrong.

People see what they want to see, or what experience has conditioned them to see. Here's a mixed, athletic kid with a big arm who scrambles, so he must be a Kap clone. Nevermind that he scrambles to pass, runs less, throws more, looks off safeties, drops touch passes in the cover 2 hole, and changes throwing platforms to avoid deflection by pass rushers. There are numerous examples of him going through progressions (Google is your friend), changing plays at the LOS, and manipulating coverage. Look harder.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

People see what they want to see, or what experience has conditioned them to see. Here's a mixed, athletic kid with a big arm who scrambles, so he must be a Kap clone. Nevermind that he scrambles to pass, runs less, throws more, looks off safeties, drops touch passes in the cover 2 hole, and changes throwing platforms to avoid deflection by pass rushers. There are numerous examples of him going through progressions (Google is your friend), changing plays at the LOS, and manipulating coverage. Look harder.

I looked plenty hard thanks and people want to be in denial sometimes when they like a player. They can't simply state that.... well he does a few things different than another player so the comparison must be wrong? No not at all. There are many similarities, quite a bit actually. There are also some differences.

But overall there are plenty of times Kaepernick went through his progressions and threw a ridiculous touch pass over Earl Thomas or against the Rams which was two of the best throws by any quarterback that whole year. So I guess people, if they don't necessarily like a quarterback don't want people to compare him to a college quarterback that they feel is different. That's OK. You're right Google is your friend and so is his game film. I suggest you rewatch his college games like I have or if you don't have time watch his highlights. So like you said, some people should look a lot harder and study the game film. It's OK if quarterbacks have similar traits to other quarterbacks. Not the end of the world.