Patrick Mahomes QB

Can we all agree that QBs are different?? They are special and will always get the bump up in the draft because if you don't have one your dead! Pat is going in the top 2 rounds and that's just fact.
If a guy has elite traits and work ethic to be great, you find away to get him on your team. This is the 49ers were our history is, we nurture and develop quarterbacking. There should be and is an expectation that Kyle and his staff can and will develop, guide, and mold a young QBs. I don't care at this point if it's Pat or not but if this staff can't develop a guy with elite tools and want to, then why the hell are they in charge??
Some say Pat hasn't shown much of this or much of that, but if he has the traits.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Rodgers was a 1st round rebuild project. If Mahomes is a rare talent, which I believe he is, it is (imo) worth the draft capital and years to develop a generational arm talent with a competitive streak, great work ethic, and tremendous innate feel for the game. I would expect his throwing at the combine and pro day to show the improved (not perfect, just improved) footwork he's been working on, which should indicate that he's a worthwhile project. If he's a top 10 QB in 5 years or a top 5 guy in 10 years, who will care what amount of draft capital was spent on him? I'm of the risk/reward angle on QBs, especially in a rebuild. A solid QB is nice. A special QB is worth the risk of busting.

This (except I never played). Mahomes is just smooth and cool, imo. He throws great passes with good location when he has a free rusher in his face. He competes on 3rd down. He routinely delivers passes that split defenders, vertically and horizontally. I think there is a lot to work with there, well beyond his physical traits. I am WAY more excited about him as a prospect than I was about Kaepernick, because of his flexibility, poise, and commitment to throw. He's a natural thrower with incredible potential and remarkable off-platform accuracy (like Favre). He could certainly bust, but I don't see another QB in this draft with more tools (physical or not) to be truly special. My $.02.

I'm sorry you have no idea Rogers was a 1st rd project...he could have very well just came in and started day 1 there's no proof to say he couldn't.

We aren't asking him to play some chip Kelly offense we're asking him to take balls from under center, 3,5,7 drop steps all based around timing, we're asking him to remember 15 word long plays( which took matt Ryan a yr to figure out), we're asking him to actually stay in the pocket,read a defense, and go through progressions etc...

Most of that doesn't equate with his currenr film to me...he's gonna be a project with upside no doubt, but I'm not drafting him in the 1st three rds because of it.

We don't have to agree on this is what it is...

Grantland: Creating the New Joe Cool

While a lot of credit is given to Rodger's work ethic and will to be great, the article discusses McCarthy rebuilding him from the ground up, to include arm mechanics, release, carry point, footwork, and reads. If he was a day one starter, he'd have logged thousands of practice and game repetitions of the same flawed mechanics, making it less likely he'd become the QB he is now. I think he was a long term project who worked out, as he went from a QB McCarthy didn't want as the 49er OC to arguably the most dangerous QB in the NFL. Again, I never said that I thought Mahomes could start day one. In fact, I think that'd be a mistake. I think he could develop into a dominant QB worth waiting for, and I don't see that in any other QB in the class (I like Watson's guts, competitive streak, but he;s not nearly the same thrower). I think 3 years from now, Mahomes could be the best QB in the class, and I think Kyle Shanahan is one of the limited number of coaches who could realize his potential.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Grantland: Creating the New Joe Cool

While a lot of credit is given to Rodger's work ethic and will to be great, the article discusses McCarthy rebuilding him from the ground up, to include arm mechanics, release, carry point, footwork, and reads. If he was a day one starter, he'd have logged thousands of practice and game repetitions of the same flawed mechanics, making it less likely he'd become the QB he is now. I think he was a long term project who worked out, as he went from a QB McCarthy didn't want as the 49er OC to arguably the most dangerous QB in the NFL. Again, I never said that I thought Mahomes could start day one. In fact, I think that'd be a mistake. I think he could develop into a dominant QB worth waiting for, and I don't see that in any other QB in the class (I like Watson's guts, competitive streak, but he;s not nearly the same thrower). I think 3 years from now, Mahomes could be the best QB in the class, and I think Kyle Shanahan is one of the limited number of coaches who could realize his potential.

We got a Brett favre to play in front of him for three years until he figures out how to play real NFL football

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Grantland: Creating the New Joe Cool

While a lot of credit is given to Rodger's work ethic and will to be great, the article discusses McCarthy rebuilding him from the ground up, to include arm mechanics, release, carry point, footwork, and reads. If he was a day one starter, he'd have logged thousands of practice and game repetitions of the same flawed mechanics, making it less likely he'd become the QB he is now. I think he was a long term project who worked out, as he went from a QB McCarthy didn't want as the 49er OC to arguably the most dangerous QB in the NFL. Again, I never said that I thought Mahomes could start day one. In fact, I think that'd be a mistake. I think he could develop into a dominant QB worth waiting for, and I don't see that in any other QB in the class (I like Watson's guts, competitive streak, but he;s not nearly the same thrower). I think 3 years from now, Mahomes could be the best QB in the class, and I think Kyle Shanahan is one of the limited number of coaches who could realize his potential.

We got a Brett favre to play in front of him for three years until he figures out how to play real NFL football

That was a playoff team with high expectations. We're a damn mess with no expectations and a HC/GM combo with new, 6 year contracts. Either way, you still have time to let the new QB sit and develop.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Grantland: Creating the New Joe Cool

While a lot of credit is given to Rodger's work ethic and will to be great, the article discusses McCarthy rebuilding him from the ground up, to include arm mechanics, release, carry point, footwork, and reads. If he was a day one starter, he'd have logged thousands of practice and game repetitions of the same flawed mechanics, making it less likely he'd become the QB he is now. I think he was a long term project who worked out, as he went from a QB McCarthy didn't want as the 49er OC to arguably the most dangerous QB in the NFL. Again, I never said that I thought Mahomes could start day one. In fact, I think that'd be a mistake. I think he could develop into a dominant QB worth waiting for, and I don't see that in any other QB in the class (I like Watson's guts, competitive streak, but he;s not nearly the same thrower). I think 3 years from now, Mahomes could be the best QB in the class, and I think Kyle Shanahan is one of the limited number of coaches who could realize his potential.

We got a Brett favre to play in front of him for three years until he figures out how to play real NFL football

That was a playoff team with high expectations. We're a damn mess with no expectations and a HC/GM combo with new, 6 year contracts. Either way, you still have time to let the new QB sit and develop.

If you're drafting a QB to sit for 3 yrs and be totally rebuilt (like Rogers) you'd better have a good QB ahead of him...especially if you're gonna burn a top 34 pick on him instead of getting a player that could be a day one starter at a different position. IMO let him be some other team's project for that type of draft pick required to get him.

Is he still a first round talent? I have a good feeling about him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Grantland: Creating the New Joe Cool

While a lot of credit is given to Rodger's work ethic and will to be great, the article discusses McCarthy rebuilding him from the ground up, to include arm mechanics, release, carry point, footwork, and reads. If he was a day one starter, he'd have logged thousands of practice and game repetitions of the same flawed mechanics, making it less likely he'd become the QB he is now. I think he was a long term project who worked out, as he went from a QB McCarthy didn't want as the 49er OC to arguably the most dangerous QB in the NFL. Again, I never said that I thought Mahomes could start day one. In fact, I think that'd be a mistake. I think he could develop into a dominant QB worth waiting for, and I don't see that in any other QB in the class (I like Watson's guts, competitive streak, but he;s not nearly the same thrower). I think 3 years from now, Mahomes could be the best QB in the class, and I think Kyle Shanahan is one of the limited number of coaches who could realize his potential.

We got a Brett favre to play in front of him for three years until he figures out how to play real NFL football

That was a playoff team with high expectations. We're a damn mess with no expectations and a HC/GM combo with new, 6 year contracts. Either way, you still have time to let the new QB sit and develop.

If you're drafting a QB to sit for 3 yrs and be totally rebuilt (like Rogers) you'd better have a good QB ahead of him...especially if you're gonna burn a top 34 pick on him instead of getting a player that could be a day one starter at a different position. IMO let him be some other team's project for that type of draft pick required to get him.

Are we winning the SB in the next two years? That's the only goal, imo. I'd take 2-3 years of 6-10 to 9-7 football under a journeyman vet to have a legitimate shot at competing regularly for SBs. Schaub, Hoyer, Romo, etc... are guys who can give you steady production and a chance to win some games while the QBOTF, and the rest of the roster, develops. If Mahomes could emerge as a top-10 QB after 2-3 years and lead the team as a top-10/top-5 QB for ~10 years, wouldn't that be worth the wait? Is anyone else in this draft giving you a sense that they could be that guy? I just don't see another guy with that superstar potential in this draft. I get it: potential is tricky. You need the right coach (I think we have it), the right supporting talent (I think they'll get it before he's pressed into starting duty), the QB in question to have a tremendous work ethic/love of the game/desire to be great/football and general intelligence (check all those blocks, by all accounts), and you need time. All those elements have to work together, but I think all of those elements could be here, as long as Shanahan thinks Mahomes is a project worth taking on. I certainly don't think Shanahan will be shy if he thinks Mahomes can be the dude.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Are we winning the SB in the next two years? That's the only goal, imo. I'd take 2-3 years of 6-10 to 9-7 football under a journeyman vet to have a legitimate shot at competing regularly for SBs. Schaub, Hoyer, Romo, etc... are guys who can give you steady production and a chance to win some games while the QBOTF, and the rest of the roster, develops. If Mahomes could emerge as a top-10 QB after 2-3 years and lead the team as a top-10/top-5 QB for ~10 years, wouldn't that be worth the wait? Is anyone else in this draft giving you a sense that they could be that guy? I just don't see another guy with that superstar potential in this draft. I get it: potential is tricky. You need the right coach (I think we have it), the right supporting talent (I think they'll get it before he's pressed into starting duty), the QB in question to have a tremendous work ethic/love of the game/desire to be great/football and general intelligence (check all those blocks, by all accounts), and you need time. All those elements have to work together, but I think all of those elements could be here, as long as Shanahan thinks Mahomes is a project worth taking on. I certainly don't think Shanahan will be shy if he thinks Mahomes can be the dude.

We can turn this team around much quicker with smart draft picks and good FAs....that's been proven in today's NFL.

What your saying is all a bunch of "what ifs"...I want guys that can play with early picks not guys that will sit the bench in learn for 2-3 yrs, haven't we had enough of that already?

I'm pretty sure our coaching staff wants to win sooner than later that's what they get paid to do...if he drops sure that's when you draft a guy to develop and hold the clip board for multiple seasons not a top 34 pick.

If you're whole reasoning to draft him is to have him learn for 2-3 yrs no way in hell are you drafting him in the top 50. IMO not smart at all. I'm sorry we are already chalk full of developmental players

Based on KS comments today, I don't think they are looking to draft a QB that can start immediately. It sounds like they are far more interested in potential than day 1 starting material.

KS said something along the lines of the QB needing to be a long term solution, not a short term solution.

I would not be surprised at all if we draft a QB, and have them sit, and sign someone like Hoyer to start next year. Whatever KS does, I doubt he will start a rookie QB next year.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Are we winning the SB in the next two years? That's the only goal, imo. I'd take 2-3 years of 6-10 to 9-7 football under a journeyman vet to have a legitimate shot at competing regularly for SBs. Schaub, Hoyer, Romo, etc... are guys who can give you steady production and a chance to win some games while the QBOTF, and the rest of the roster, develops. If Mahomes could emerge as a top-10 QB after 2-3 years and lead the team as a top-10/top-5 QB for ~10 years, wouldn't that be worth the wait? Is anyone else in this draft giving you a sense that they could be that guy? I just don't see another guy with that superstar potential in this draft. I get it: potential is tricky. You need the right coach (I think we have it), the right supporting talent (I think they'll get it before he's pressed into starting duty), the QB in question to have a tremendous work ethic/love of the game/desire to be great/football and general intelligence (check all those blocks, by all accounts), and you need time. All those elements have to work together, but I think all of those elements could be here, as long as Shanahan thinks Mahomes is a project worth taking on. I certainly don't think Shanahan will be shy if he thinks Mahomes can be the dude.

We can turn this team around much quicker with smart draft picks and good FAs....that's been proven in today's NFL.

What your saying is all a bunch of "what ifs"...I want guys that can play with early picks not guys that will sit the bench in learn for 2-3 yrs, haven't we had enough of that already?

I'm pretty sure our coaching staff wants to win sooner than later that's what they get paid to do...if he drops sure that's when you draft a guy to develop and hold the clip board for multiple seasons not a top 34 pick.

If you're whole reasoning to draft him is to have him learn for 2-3 yrs no way in hell are you drafting him in the top 50. IMO not smart at all. I'm sorry we are already chalk full of developmental players

The Packers got two HOF, SB-winning QBs that way. Favre was acquired for a 1st round pick, IIRC, and he was there to sit and learn behind Majkowski. Rodgers was drafted in the first round to sit behind Favre. IMO, there isn't a single QB in this draft who should start in 2017. Getting the most talent, along with a smooth gunslinger demeanor to develop makes a lot of sense to me, even if he needs to sit another year or two. Shoot, the 49ers gave up a 2nd and a 4th for Young to develop behind Montana, after TB drafted Testaverde to replace him. Young was drafted #1 overall in the 1984 supplemental draft of USFL and CFL players, ahead of Reggie White and Gary Zimmerman, based on crazy potential. A guy with the right demeanor, mentality, and sensational talent is worth the capital it takes to secure him and the time it takes to develop him. QB value is different than value at any other position, especially when the guy has traits that could allow him to be great.

Watched two games of this kid, and watch more YOUTUBE...

while talented, I think he reminds me so much of Jim McMahon...

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

The Packers got two HOF, SB-winning QBs that way. Favre was acquired for a 1st round pick, IIRC, and he was there to sit and learn behind Majkowski. Rodgers was drafted in the first round to sit behind Favre. IMO, there isn't a single QB in this draft who should start in 2017. Getting the most talent, along with a smooth gunslinger demeanor to develop makes a lot of sense to me, even if he needs to sit another year or two. Shoot, the 49ers gave up a 2nd and a 4th for Young to develop behind Montana, after TB drafted Testaverde to replace him. Young was drafted #1 overall in the 1984 supplemental draft of USFL and CFL players, ahead of Reggie White and Gary Zimmerman, based on crazy potential. A guy with the right demeanor, mentality, and sensational talent is worth the capital it takes to secure him and the time it takes to develop him. QB value is different than value at any other position, especially when the guy has traits that could allow him to be great.

The issue is we need help everywhere and there will be very good talent in the 2nd rd that can help with building this team...like you said GB was already a playoff team and had a HOF qb, they could afford to draft Rogers and let him develop. We need talent and can't be throwing picks away for more developmental guys. We are chalk full of "upside" and "developmental" players imo.

If he drops to the 3rd then maybe...we see this totally differently which is coo, I see a huge project you see upside and what ifs.

If I'm picking between him and a pass rusher at 34 I'm going with the pass rusher

This kid reminds me of favre

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
The Packers got two HOF, SB-winning QBs that way. Favre was acquired for a 1st round pick, IIRC, and he was there to sit and learn behind Majkowski. Rodgers was drafted in the first round to sit behind Favre. IMO, there isn't a single QB in this draft who should start in 2017. Getting the most talent, along with a smooth gunslinger demeanor to develop makes a lot of sense to me, even if he needs to sit another year or two. Shoot, the 49ers gave up a 2nd and a 4th for Young to develop behind Montana, after TB drafted Testaverde to replace him. Young was drafted #1 overall in the 1984 supplemental draft of USFL and CFL players, ahead of Reggie White and Gary Zimmerman, based on crazy potential. A guy with the right demeanor, mentality, and sensational talent is worth the capital it takes to secure him and the time it takes to develop him. QB value is different than value at any other position, especially when the guy has traits that could allow him to be great.

The issue is we need help everywhere and there will be very good talent in the 2nd rd that can help with building this team...like you said GB was already a playoff team and had a HOF qb, they could afford to draft Rogers and let him develop. We need talent and can't be throwing picks away for more developmental guys. We are chalk full of "upside" and "developmental" players imo.

If he drops to the 3rd then maybe...we see this totally differently which is coo, I see a huge project you see upside and what ifs.

All good

Fair enough. I'd rather have a QB project who is developing in the wings while the GM/HC figure out the roster and build the roster. I don't think there's another player available that could have the long-term impact of a HOF-type QB. I certainly don't know that Mahomes will be that guy, but I don't see another guy in this draft who could be that guy. Josh Allen could be that guy in 2018 or 2019, but he's more wild than Mahomes, and there's nothing saying the 49ers would be in a position to draft him. The 49ers are more likely to get lucky turning a 4th round WR (or LB, LEO, RB, etc...) into a player that produces like a 2nd rounder than they are to luckily stumble into a HOF QB after the 2nd, imo. It's one pick, and QB's always the most acceptable risk to take, IMO.

We seem to be fixed on opposite sides of the fence on this one. It's cool.

Go Niners!

Originally posted by rathman4481:
This kid reminds me of favre

Me too, in a lot of ways. I loved (hated) Favre's confidence, daring, and ability to use his rocket arm to capitalize on both. I hated that he seemed like a lazy-ass in the meeting/film room until he was 30+. He'd take his backup's QB quizzes to hand in to Holmgren/Mooch, because he didn't do his own. When he finally started doing the film work and study, he commented publicly how much easier the game seemed. Imagine if he started studying like that in his early 20s? BY all accounts, Mahomes also loves football, but he studies it, too. He's completely out of touch with the system, I'd imagine, but he'll have the opportunity to demonstrate how quicly he can learn the mechanics when he meets with teams at the combine and through the pre-draft process. He'll be able to demonstrate his ability to learn the footwork at the combine and at his pro day. If he's perfect, he's a damn unicorn. If he's passable, it shows the ability is there and he just needs more time than the few months of draft pageantry.