dude misses the easy throw and reads all the time...he opts for the "big play" and improvises wayyy too much. His footwork is trash. He's a project with huge upside but his floor is very low.
His best chance at success is holding a clip board for a yr of two then taking it over. Going somewhere that has an established Qb at the backend of his career would suit him best. He's gonna get over drafted based off those "wow" plays and people will over look the simple things he's misses on the regular.
He doesn't look like a WCO qb to me...somewhere like Pitt or zona would be a better fit IMO.
I think the term "WCO QB" is so overused. It's not some esoteric set of qualities. Basically, anybody with good accuracy, a quick release, a good football mind, and decent athleticism can be a good WCO qb. Almost every QB needs to learn a new system in the NFL, and a good thete can learn the footwork.
Nearly every scout or position coach I've talked to, read, or heard speak says something to the tune of, "Scout what he can do, not what he was asked to do." Mahomes' wasnt asked to discipline his footworh at TT, but his footwork looked drastically improved at the combine, and I would expect him to display a lot of drop backs at his pro day. When he was protected, he threw on time, and he looks off safeties and reads progressions. He throws with anticipation and displays an incredible feel for the game. Why can't he thrive in a WCO again?
Mahomes made a lot of late-in-the-down improvisational plays, and many of them were unnecessary. He would often be impatient in the pocket. It will be difficult to replicate those plays in the NFL. The foundation of playing quarterback in the NFL starts in the pocket, and Mahomes will initially struggle with the disciplines of playing under center. He'll have to be coached hard if he is to become a quality NFL starter. But how difficult will it be to lose that freewheeling gunslinger mentality?
Mahomes has talent but not much consistency with fundamentals and execution; he's like a Jay Cutler but far less disciplined. He left a lot of throws on the field by not progression reading and isolating the right throw within the timing of the route combination. Leaving throws on the field was a recurring theme in his game tape. Field vision could be an issue for him. As is playing with timing and rhythm.
There's no question some NFL coaches will love his overall talent, but he will need to be re-trained in many ways. He has a wide range of outcomes based on so many variables – it's hard to project a quarterback based on his ability to make plays outside of the structure of an offense. That's too risky. But there is physical talent here, there's no question about that.
I think the term "WCO QB" is so overused. It's not some esoteric set of qualities. Basically, anybody with good accuracy, a quick release, a good football mind, and decent athleticism can be a good WCO qb. Almost every QB needs to learn a new system in the NFL, and a good thete can learn the footwork.
Nearly every scout or position coach I've talked to, read, or heard speak says something to the tune of, "Scout what he can do, not what he was asked to do." Mahomes' wasnt asked to discipline his footworh at TT, but his footwork looked drastically improved at the combine, and I would expect him to display a lot of drop backs at his pro day. When he was protected, he threw on time, and he looks off safeties and reads progressions. He throws with anticipation and displays an incredible feel for the game. Why can't he thrive in a WCO again?
I'm not saying he can't but he's not gonna be that imo for two yrs....most qbs can throw well when protected. From what I've seen he misses the easy positive play a lot. He's impatient especially from the pocket and improvises when he doesn't have to... He's got the tools no question but you need to have some discipline when playing the WCO and he's just doesn't look like that from his game tape, maybe he's changed in a matter of a couple months and can do all the 3 and 5 step drops and go through all his progressions. That's asking a lot from a guy who didn't have to do a ton of that in college.
I'd love to draft him in say the 3rd because that's what I think he's value is at his pt...from the sounds of it he's gonna it over drafted and we simply need more NFL ready talent at other positions.
I'm not saying he can't but he's not gonna be that imo for two yrs....most qbs can throw well when protected. From what I've seen he misses the easy positive play a lot. He's impatient especially from the pocket and improvises when he doesn't have to... He's got the tools no question but you need to have some discipline when playing the WCO and he's just doesn't look like that from his game tape, maybe he's changed in a matter of a couple months and can do all the 3 and 5 step drops and go through all his progressions. That's asking a lot from a guy who didn't have to do a ton of that in college.
I'd love to draft him in say the 3rd because that's what I think he's value is at his pt...from the sounds of it he's gonna it over drafted and we simply need more NFL ready talent at other positions.
Winston, luck, peterman this yr sometimes ( and I'm not comparing him to them). I agree not many qb prospects are ready for the NFL...that said I don't see it with him as a WCO qb that relies on footwork and timing....at least not for a couple yrs. I like the prospect of him but not in the 1st two rds there's just too much more pro ready talent elsewhere that is a need.
It's just my opinion your gonna disagree I don't need to get into some long debate just have a difference of opionion
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Mar 19, 2017 at 6:52 AM ]
Mahomes made a lot of late-in-the-down improvisational plays, and many of them were unnecessary. He would often be impatient in the pocket. It will be difficult to replicate those plays in the NFL. The foundation of playing quarterback in the NFL starts in the pocket, and Mahomes will initially struggle with the disciplines of playing under center. He'll have to be coached hard if he is to become a quality NFL starter. But how difficult will it be to lose that freewheeling gunslinger mentality?
Mahomes has talent but not much consistency with fundamentals and execution; he's like a Jay Cutler but far less disciplined. He left a lot of throws on the field by not progression reading and isolating the right throw within the timing of the route combination. Leaving throws on the field was a recurring theme in his game tape. Field vision could be an issue for him. As is playing with timing and rhythm.
There's no question some NFL coaches will love his overall talent, but he will need to be re-trained in many ways. He has a wide range of outcomes based on so many variables – it's hard to project a quarterback based on his ability to make plays outside of the structure of an offense. That's too risky. But there is physical talent here, there's no question about that.
Farve was not a WCO type of QB when GB and whats his name traded for him from the Falcons. In the end KS will have to decide if he can be molded into a franchise QB. I do like the idea of moving back into the first to get a fifth year option if they decide they like him. However, that is providing we can move back from number two to get extra picks. A lot of the posturing, I like that we are a mystery this year, no one knows how we think, there is no precedent, now just gotta hope a lot of players in the top ten blow off the doors on people and make others fall in love to move up.
Looking back at it, the Browns were smart to take Brock and buy that second rounder. Question though, are they only responsible for this years salary? What about the subsequent years. AB123, do you know? Anybody.
Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
Why is he the top rated QB?
Arm strength primarily since he's the shortest of the top QBs with the smallest hands and he's coming from an air raid offense. He's also surprisingly accurate considering he attempts ridiculous throws and doesn't always set his feet.
Watson has mediocre arm strength and struggles to see defenders over the middle of the field.
Trubisky only has one year of starting experience and struggled in whiteboard sessions.
Kizer has great size and an elite arm, but has terrible footwork and comes across as a little self-absorbed/introverted like Kaepernick.
Mahomes has an elite arm, but has small hands, is a gunslinger, is inconsistent, and is coming from an air raid offense.
I still think Mahomes is the #4 QB in the class and Trubisky is the top QB, but they're all pretty close. It wouldn't really surprise me if the Browns sit back at 12 and still get their pick of the QBs. Just can't see anyone trading up into the top 5 for any of these guys and don't know if the Jets will pick one at 6.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Winston, luck, peterman this yr sometimes ( and I'm not comparing him to them). I agree not many qb prospects are ready for the NFL...that said I don't see it with him as a WCO qb that relies on footwork and timing....at least not for a couple yrs. I like the prospect of him but not in the 1st two rds there's just too much more pro ready talent elsewhere that is a need.
It's just my opinion your gonna disagree I don't need to get into some long debate just have a difference of opionion
Peterman does not take 3 or 5 step drops in a more NFL fashion then other college QBs. Peterman's offense is unconventional by NFL standards.
I just picked a game at random
1st pass - Shotgon shovel pass
2nd pass - designed roll out from shotgun
3rd pass (he scrambles on) - play aciton designed roll out
4th pass - play action 7 step drop
5th pass -shotgun roll out (well not quite a roll out, but design for him to run outside pocket)
6th pass - play action 5 step drop
7th pass - play action 7 step drop
8th pass - shotgun 3 step drop (one thing I'm picking up on is on short step drops he studders his feet quite a bit, on this play he threw off balance but the pick was the WRs fault, but the ball came out late, the WR had already made his cut and finished the hook)
9th pass - shotgun shovel pass
10th pass -seven step drop, it looks like
11th pass - screen pass
12th pass - umm about a 10 yard step drop? lol, i think it was a broken play, the timing was off with no fake to WR #5
13th pass - another non-traditionall shotgun step drop where they have have move directly to the side he is throwing
14th pass - 3 step drop, he scrambled and ran
15th pass - another shotgun shovel pass
I'm telling you guys, he doesn't run a traditional offense. Everytime I look at the offense, they are moving the pocket to the side of the field he is throwing and making it so he has 1 or 2 progressions/keys to read. And then I read about you guys complaining about how the Air Raid does that. Yes he takes snaps under center but its practically NEVER simply a 3 or 5 drop pass, if he is throwing its play action. The vast majority of his throws are shotgun roll outs. It makes no sense to say Peterman's offense is similar to the NFL.
Mahomes v. West Virginia (picked randomly) (all plays shotgun)
1st pass - 3 step drop on play action, incomplete, leads WR about 6 inches too much on slant
2nd pass - audibles at line, 3 step drop and dumps off to RB
3rd pass - 3 step drop, overthrows WR
4th pass - 3 step drop, dumps off to RB
5th pass - play action, sacked
6th pass - 3 step drop, leaves pocket, throws across body, dangerous pass, incomplete
7th pass - audibles at line, 3 step drop, scrambles for a few yards
8th pass - play changed by sidelines, 3 step drop, he scrambles to extend play, makes deep completion
9th pass - play action (zero step?), completes short pas
10th pass - screen pass
11th pass - looks like a designed 3 step drop (although Mahomes steps are often hardly that), incomplete pass
12th pass - 3 step drop, scrambles to evade pressure on key 3rd down, deep completion (I believe its called by OL penalty)
13th pass - 7 step drop, 3rd and 29, completes for TD
14th pass - 3 step drop, hits inside slant perfectly
15th pass - WR swing pass
[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Mar 20, 2017 at 10:05 AM ]
