Patrick Mahomes QB

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
How was the offense complex? It was a lot of typical air raid routes...

It's a modified Erhardt-perkins system that can easily adjust based on matchup or outcome during a game. Considering it's been the base of offense for Brady's entire career it's no wonder that he can use it like a scaple against anybody.

Originally posted by tankle104:
If you really believed in any of these Qbs, to the point where they could be top Qbs in this league, you should want to take a QB with whatever pick it is necessary. If we find our QBOTF, then Cousins isn't coming here.

I personally think there is a ton of potential pro bowlers in this draft, but if Watson/Trubisky/whoever is going to be a pro bowler and lead our team to the playoffs every year, then I'd rather have that over anyone. I'm just saying if Kyle/Lynch believe in a QB in this draft, use whatever picks necessary to land him. Building up a team is a hell of a lot easier when you have a franchise QB.

Sure, I agree. But I see more needs needing to be addressed first. Go look back, I was pushing hard for Mahomes.. even at 34. I want him, but with your logic and being that QB is a necessity I'd be forced to find a trade at a more reasonable spot or settle for grabbing him at 2(no way in f*ck). Every player has a point where his worth is questioned, I'm just questioning if Mahomes is going to be worth the moves I expect we'd have to make to get him. In case my point was missed, I've lost a little desire for QB there because I don't know if he'll be there(34).. So I moved on to watchin a lot of Peterman film and I really like the kid. He was originally a 4th rounder for me and many others.. now conversation him going in the 2nd? Hell, I'd rather have Mahomes if I'm forced to snatch Peterman in the 2nd, Mahomes has the highest ceiling of any of the QBs for me.. even slightly above Trubisky.
I don't know if drafting a QB means we don't bring in Cousins though, honestly don't know if I want it to either.. but I don't want to pay what Cousins is going to get.

You're right, if ShanaLynch like a QB and they take him, then to hell with my predraft opinion.. I expect him to become the best QB in the class. Faith in the QB guru.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

By the way, for those people that think the Air Raid isn't "NFL style", please tell me how the below was not an Air Raid offense:



Tom Brady threw 62 times in what was virtually an Air Raid offense. Yet if a college kid throws 62 times in an Air Raid, its the touch of death

Yah that's great and all but umm Shanahan doesn't run the same offense that McDaniels runs and I'm pretty sure Patriots fans would laugh in my face if I called their offense the Air Raid.

Seriously how many Mobile-Spread QBs do you see being successful in the NFL on a consistent basis. How's this I'll take back what I said about Mahomes coming from the Air Raid, which is only half his problem anyway. But the fact that he lacks footwork, mechanics and the experience to go through his reads while taking a 3, 5 or 7 step drop are reasons for me to say pass. Those are basics fundamentals of a NFL QB, that most college QBs who don't have experience tend to struggle to just learn that - see Jared Goff, also notice the progression of Carson Wentz. Wentz is light years better than Goff right now, I think he worries more about a NFL playbook than the footwork or mechanics from taking snaps and passing from under center.

To each his own I will leave you with that, but again, notice the top 10 passers every year and tell me what you think they have in common?

Mahomes a Nate Davis clone?

Originally posted by jcs:

It's a modified Erhardt-perkins system that can easily adjust based on matchup or outcome during a game. Considering it's been the base of offense for Brady's entire career it's no wonder that he can use it like a scaple against anybody.

That was the base offense in like 2005 lol

I think it's funny you don't see the air raid in the SB

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Yah that's great and all but umm Shanahan doesn't run the same offense that McDaniels runs and I'm pretty sure Patriots fans would laugh in my face if I called their offense the Air Raid.

Seriously how many Mobile-Spread QBs do you see being successful in the NFL on a consistent basis. How's this I'll take back what I said about Mahomes coming from the Air Raid, which is only half his problem anyway. But the fact that he lacks footwork, mechanics and the experience to go through his reads while taking a 3, 5 or 7 step drop are reasons for me to say pass. Those are basics fundamentals of a NFL QB, that most college QBs who don't have experience tend to struggle to just learn that - see Jared Goff, also notice the progression of Carson Wentz. Wentz is light years better than Goff right now, I think he worries more about a NFL playbook than the footwork or mechanics from taking snaps and passing from under center.

To each his own I will leave you with that, but again, notice the top 10 passers every year and tell me what you think they have in common?

Most QBs fail in the NFL, regardless of system

And again I've points out time and time again RW is a spread QB who at 23 had 1 year at WI. Mahomes is 21

Mariota right now is doing well, and Winston is from a spread

Most every QB drafted in the past 5 years played in a spread variation

Goff may fail but that doesn't mean it's due to being from an air raid. He won't be the 1st QB in history to fail. I think more of the problem is he plays for the Rams...

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Yah that's great and all but umm Shanahan doesn't run the same offense that McDaniels runs and I'm pretty sure Patriots fans would laugh in my face if I called their offense the Air Raid.

Seriously how many Mobile-Spread QBs do you see being successful in the NFL on a consistent basis. How's this I'll take back what I said about Mahomes coming from the Air Raid, which is only half his problem anyway. But the fact that he lacks footwork, mechanics and the experience to go through his reads while taking a 3, 5 or 7 step drop are reasons for me to say pass. Those are basics fundamentals of a NFL QB, that most college QBs who don't have experience tend to struggle to just learn that - see Jared Goff, also notice the progression of Carson Wentz. Wentz is light years better than Goff right now, I think he worries more about a NFL playbook than the footwork or mechanics from taking snaps and passing from under center.

To each his own I will leave you with that, but again, notice the top 10 passers every year and tell me what you think they have in common?

Most QBs fail in the NFL, regardless of system

And again I've points out time and time again RW is a spread QB who at 23 had 1 year at WI. Mahomes is 21

Mariota right now is doing well, and Winston is from a spread

Most every QB drafted in the past 5 years played in a spread variation

Goff may fail but that doesn't mean it's due to being from an air raid. He won't be the 1st QB in history to fail. I think more of the problem is he plays for the Rams...

Russell Wilson is far from a spread QB most if not 90% of his experience is from a pro style offense in college. Please stop with that there's already a video that proves it.

Mariota, it's funny you guys keep bringing him up. Yes he's been good, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's anything to write home about him being the #24 rated passer. Jury still out on him to see if he's one of those that can help guide his team to the playoffs year in and year out or be top 10 or 15 rated passer on a consistent basis.

As for Winston, I'd say he's more of a pocket passer than a runner or mobile QB. And he's no read option QB by any means either.

And btw noticed I used the term mobile-spread or option QBs. I know QBs have come from variations of the spread, that's not my argument at all.

Goff failing or if he does, is not my argument either. I only brought up the fact that he's struggled with the fundamentals of being a QB in the Pros. Not sure how anyone can disagree with that. I also think he'll be a pretty decent QB but I think it's gonna take some time.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Russell Wilson is far from a spread QB most if not 90% of his experience is from a pro style offense in college. Please stop with that there's already a video that proves it.

Mariota, it's funny you guys keep bringing him up. Yes he's been good, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's anything to write home about him being the #24 rated passer. Jury still out on him to see if he's one of those that can help guide his team to the playoffs year in and year out or be top 10 or 15 rated passer on a consistent basis.

As for Winston, I'd say he's more of a pocket passer than a runner or mobile QB. And he's no read option QB by any means either.

And btw noticed I used the term mobile-spread or option QBs. I know QBs have come from variations of the spread, that's not my argument at all.

Goff failing or if he does, is not my argument either. I only brought up the fact that he's struggled with the fundamentals of being a QB in the Pros. Not sure how anyone can disagree with that. I also think he'll be a pretty decent QB but I think it's gonna take some time.

Of the top ten QBs, most are over 30. Wilson, Luck, and Cam (if you include all of them) are 27-28. Mariota is 23. I bet he'll continue to develop. QB takes time and patience. Fans, media and owners act like petulant children when a guy isn't top 10 out o the box. It's not a coincidence that all the best QBs are older. It's experience and development.

Wilson absolutely was in the spread for most of his college career. He was only at Wisconsin for a year, and NC State for 4 years. NC state ran the spread. And he was absolutely a mobile, scrambling QB.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Russell Wilson is far from a spread QB most if not 90% of his experience is from a pro style offense in college. Please stop with that there's already a video that proves it.

Mariota, it's funny you guys keep bringing him up. Yes he's been good, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's anything to write home about him being the #24 rated passer. Jury still out on him to see if he's one of those that can help guide his team to the playoffs year in and year out or be top 10 or 15 rated passer on a consistent basis.

As for Winston, I'd say he's more of a pocket passer than a runner or mobile QB. And he's no read option QB by any means either.

And btw noticed I used the term mobile-spread or option QBs. I know QBs have come from variations of the spread, that's not my argument at all.

Goff failing or if he does, is not my argument either. I only brought up the fact that he's struggled with the fundamentals of being a QB in the Pros. Not sure how anyone can disagree with that. I also think he'll be a pretty decent QB but I think it's gonna take some time.

Marriota was the #10 rated passer with nobody (top WR was Rishard Matthews) to throw to: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

What are you talking about with RW? Did you watch him play at NC State?

"With the Wolfpack, Wilson ran a variation of the spread offense"
http://www.chicagonow.com/locker-room/2011/09/why-russell-wilson-will-be-successful-at-wisconsin/

"It'll be a huge change from being the main playmaker in a spread, passing oriented offense to a set-up man in a potent rushing, drop back offense"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/761761-leaving-the-wolfpack-to-be-a-badger-breaking-down-russell-wilsons-potential

Mike Glennon played in a similar offense (although it was modified to be more "conventional") and 69% of his plays were from shotgun and majority had 7-8 yard step drops. Stats per PFF (https://www.profootballfocus.com/qbs-in-focus-mike-glennon/)

I can't find a full game but here is RW highlights:



The line between what is Spread and what is "pro style" is also incredibly blurred. You can point to several NFL teams that run a lot of spread elements

Next you're going to tell me Cam Newton's offense at Auburn under Guz Malzahn was pro-style and not spread

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Russell Wilson is far from a spread QB most if not 90% of his experience is from a pro style offense in college. Please stop with that there's already a video that proves it.

Mariota, it's funny you guys keep bringing him up. Yes he's been good, but that's about it. I wouldn't say it's anything to write home about him being the #24 rated passer. Jury still out on him to see if he's one of those that can help guide his team to the playoffs year in and year out or be top 10 or 15 rated passer on a consistent basis.

As for Winston, I'd say he's more of a pocket passer than a runner or mobile QB. And he's no read option QB by any means either.

And btw noticed I used the term mobile-spread or option QBs. I know QBs have come from variations of the spread, that's not my argument at all.

Goff failing or if he does, is not my argument either. I only brought up the fact that he's struggled with the fundamentals of being a QB in the Pros. Not sure how anyone can disagree with that. I also think he'll be a pretty decent QB but I think it's gonna take some time.

Marriota was the #10 rated passer with nobody (top WR was Rishard Matthews) to throw to: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

What are you talking about with RW? Did you watch him play at NC State?

"With the Wolfpack, Wilson ran a variation of the spread offense"
http://www.chicagonow.com/locker-room/2011/09/why-russell-wilson-will-be-successful-at-wisconsin/

"It'll be a huge change from being the main playmaker in a spread, passing oriented offense to a set-up man in a potent rushing, drop back offense"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/761761-leaving-the-wolfpack-to-be-a-badger-breaking-down-russell-wilsons-potential

Mike Glennon played in a similar offense (although it was modified to be more "conventional") and 69% of his plays were from shotgun and majority had 7-8 yard step drops. Stats per PFF (https://www.profootballfocus.com/qbs-in-focus-mike-glennon/)

I can't find a full game but here is RW highlights:



The line between what is Spread and what is "pro style" is also incredibly blurred. You can point to several NFL teams that run a lot of spread elements

Next you're going to tell me Cam Newton's offense at Auburn under Guz Malzahn was pro-style and not spread

I'm not sure why you're disputing me saying college spread QB's can't transition to the NFL. You totally missed on my argument, no where did I say that, matter of fact I even stated some of the college spread QB's who have transitioned well in the QB thread in ninertalk. That's not my argument at all.

Hmm Jon Gruden and Russell Wilson himself says he was in a west coast offense, don't know who the heck that guy is in your link:



But of course you'll try to dispute what they say because it's hard admitting you're wrong.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
That was the base offense in like 2005 lol

I think it's funny you don't see the air raid in the SB

That's been the base offense for Brady since he's been there. It's what McDaniels runs.

I think he is going way earlier than people think. Somewhere in the teens or early twenties. Expect a surge of momentum in the next month

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I'm not sure why you're disputing me saying college spread QB's can't transition to the NFL. You totally missed on my argument, no where did I say that, matter of fact I even stated some of the college spread QB's who have transitioned well in the QB thread in ninertalk. That's not my argument at all.

Hmm Jon Gruden and Russell Wilson himself says he was in a west coast offense, don't know who the heck that guy is in your link:



But of course you'll try to dispute what they say because it's hard admitting you're wrong.

It's WCO in the same way that Harbaugh's offense was WCO and NE's offense in the SB was E-P. It's the terminology and play-calling system. Every passing offense in the NFL and College (and most in HS) has WCO concepts, but any ofense that uses the WCO playcalling system is WCO. Harbaugh ran a gap/power, PA passing offense w/plays called using WCO nomenclature. It wasn't pure WCO, from a philosophical or play selection standpoint, but they called the plays by using WCO names. NE won the SB using a load of spread passing plays, which they called using the terminology of the E-P system. It doesn't make them E-P plays. Dana Bible, the OC for NC State when Wilson was there, was a long-time WCO disciple, who adapted the offense to take advantage of the easy reads, open WRs, pre-snap certainty, and available YAC yards available to spread offenses. They called the plays using WCO terminology, but those were certainly spread plays. Maybe Wilson had an advantage calling plays in the huddle, based on the use of WCO terms, but that didn't make him any more developed as a passer than Luke Falk or Jared Goff.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think he is going way earlier than people think. Somewhere in the teens or early twenties. Expect a surge of momentum in the next month

I think his basement is 25 to the Texans. He could easily go ten picks before that if he knocks out his private workouts.