Sam Darnold

Originally posted by jcs:
20 year old sophomore...he has time to refine all of that...

How long as he been playing football? Those motor patterns are ingrained deep into his nervous system. That long setup stems from his baseball background. He is what he is in this regard. Darnold conceded to trying to work on it during the offseason, but it clearly had no impact whatsoever. His mechanics are still as terrible as they were the year prior.

You can make slight mechanical modifications at the NFL level(ie Aaron Rodgers changing his ball carriage point), but overhauling a player's mechanics at the NFL level is almost insurmountable. Retraining human motor patterns is an arduous undertaking. It takes years to reprogram bad motor patterns for athletes. There simply isn't enough time, especially in modern football with the CBA.

Originally posted by okdkid:
Welp, a QB prospect with the single worst mechanics in NFL draft history was taken #10 overall this past draft. Mechanics matter little.

Mahomes' tools are substantially better than Darnold's. Mahomes has an elite arm; Darnold does not.

Production and promise is all that matters.

Tim Tebow would have gone #1 if that was the case.

But it's not.

Doesn't Phillip Rivers have an awkward delivery? Don't mess with their mechanics!

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by okdkid:
Welp, a QB prospect with the single worst mechanics in NFL draft history was taken #10 overall this past draft. Mechanics matter little.

Production and promise is all that matters.

Tim Tebow would have gone #1 if that was the case.

But it's not.

Tebow never had the promise of Darnold nor Mahomes.

I don't have a dog in this fight. Not a USC fan, nor a fan of any other QB prospect. But it seems pretty obvious that Darnold is the QB1 in this draft thus far.

Maybe that changes over the next three months. But as of today, he's in his own tier. Through three weeks -- Darnold and Rosen have the look of guys you can bet the franchise on. The other guys are dudes who are available every single year.

How many accounts does Kap have on this site. Keep reading mechanics don't matter.....

Originally posted by bonafidejonb:
Doesn't Phillip Rivers have an awkward delivery? Don't mess with their mechanics!

Rivers has an unorthodox arm slot/release, not delivery. His actual delivery is relatively smooth.



Compare that delivery to this:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How many accounts does Kap have on this site. Keep reading mechanics don't matter.....

Won't matter at draft time. He'll be taken top 3, perhaps #1 overall.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by jcs:
20 year old sophomore...he has time to refine all of that...

How long as he been playing football? Those motor patterns are ingrained deep into his nervous system. That long setup stems from his baseball background. He is what he is in this regard. Darnold conceded to trying to work on it during the offseason, but it clearly had no impact whatsoever. His mechanics are still as terrible as they were the year prior.

You can make slight mechanical modifications at the NFL level(ie Aaron Rodgers changing his ball carriage point), but overhauling a player's mechanics at the NFL level is almost insurmountable. Retraining human motor patterns is an arduous undertaking. It takes years to reprogram bad motor patterns for athletes. There simply isn't enough time, especially in modern football with the CBA.

"I also contacted NFL Films football guru Greg Cosell about the possibility of altering the mechanics of a quarterback and he immediately said "yes".

Cosell expanded on his answer by stating that "anything that is mechanical can be altered, anything that is a function of a movement can be altered. There are four parts to throwing the football: legs, hips, shoulders and arm, which comes along for the ride when the others are done right."

http://thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/can-quarterbacks-mechanics-be-altered

Walsh refined both Montana and Young. There is a great interview on KNBR with S.Young this summer that you can listen to that has him speak about this very thing. How he heard Walsh repeat and repeat the mechanics of his pass so many times in practice that he would dream about it.

Originally posted by okdkid:
Won't matter at draft time. He'll be taken top 3, perhaps #1 overall.

You're right. Since teams desperate for a quarterback, a guy like Sam will go early. But this stuff matters, particularly to the head coach of the 49ers.

I'm merely pointing out the obvious. I'm not making this stuff up. These are objective observations. QB is a damn crapshoot. Nobody knows. If teams knew, there wouldn't be such overwhelming number of busts.

Originally posted by jcs:
"I also contacted NFL Films football guru Greg Cosell about the possibility of altering the mechanics of a quarterback and he immediately said "yes".

Cosell expanded on his answer by stating that "anything that is mechanical can be altered, anything that is a function of a movement can be altered. There are four parts to throwing the football: legs, hips, shoulders and arm, which comes along for the ride when the others are done right."

http://thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/can-quarterbacks-mechanics-be-altered

Walsh refined both Montana and Young. There is a great interview on KNBR with S.Young this summer that you can listen to that has him speak about this very thing. How he heard Walsh repeat and repeat the mechanics of his pass so many times in practice that he would dream about it.

Do you have evidence of what Steve Young changed? I've heard Steve talk learning footwork, not overhauling his mechanics. I've never him him say he had to rehaul his upper and lower body mechanics.

You also referenced the article that uses Aaron Rodgers as it's focal point, except they only changed his ball carriage point.That's a trivial change compared to what needs to happen for Darnold.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by okdkid:
Won't matter at draft time. He'll be taken top 3, perhaps #1 overall.

You're right. Since teams desperate for a quarterback, a guy like Sam will go early. But this stuff matters, particularly to the head coach of the 49ers.

I'm merely pointing out the obvious. I'm not making this stuff up. These are objective observations. QB is a damn crapshoot. Nobody knows. If teams knew, there wouldn't be such overwhelming number of busts.

Of course. That's the breaks in drafting 1st round QBs. But of all the prospects potentially coming out this year, Darnold's accuracy, ability to read the entire field, poise, playmaking ability, pocket awareness, mobility, clutchness, anticipation and leadership are what make him QB1 at this point. Rosen is close.

Originally posted by okdkid:
Of course. That's the breaks in drafting 1st round QBs. But of all the prospects potentially coming out this year, Darnold's accuracy, ability to read the entire field, poise, playmaking ability, pocket awareness, mobility, clutchness, anticipation and leadership are what make him QB1 at this point. Rosen is close.

Fair enough

Just keep in mind that the best QBs throughout the history of the game(Montana, Brady, Manning, etc) all had excellent mechanics in addition to the aforementioned traits.

He is Starting to become my number 1 QB, him and Rudolph are my favorite so far..Darnold just seems to get it..aware of blitzes, coverages, and gets the ball out fast..

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by jcs:
20 year old sophomore...he has time to refine all of that...

How long as he been playing football? Those motor patterns are ingrained deep into his nervous system. That long setup stems from his baseball background. He is what he is in this regard. Darnold conceded to trying to work on it during the offseason, but it clearly had no impact whatsoever. His mechanics are still as terrible as they were the year prior.

You can make slight mechanical modifications at the NFL level(ie Aaron Rodgers changing his ball carriage point), but overhauling a player's mechanics at the NFL level is almost insurmountable. Retraining human motor patterns is an arduous undertaking. It takes years to reprogram bad motor patterns for athletes. There simply isn't enough time, especially in modern football with the CBA.

"I also contacted NFL Films football guru Greg Cosell about the possibility of altering the mechanics of a quarterback and he immediately said "yes".

Cosell expanded on his answer by stating that "anything that is mechanical can be altered, anything that is a function of a movement can be altered. There are four parts to throwing the football: legs, hips, shoulders and arm, which comes along for the ride when the others are done right."

http://thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/can-quarterbacks-mechanics-be-altered

Walsh refined both Montana and Young. There is a great interview on KNBR with S.Young this summer that you can listen to that has him speak about this very thing. How he heard Walsh repeat and repeat the mechanics of his pass so many times in practice that he would dream about it.

I'm going to agree to disagree...there is more than enough proof out there from the guys that did it or coached it to say that throwing mechanics can be evolved and changed. You have numerous examples like Brady, Brees, Rodgers in the league today as guys who all changed their throwing mechanics after turning pro. Just because you have guys like Kap and Bortles that haven't doesn't mean it can't be done but may have more to do with the work ethic or specialized training these guys get.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Boldjames:
Worth skipping Kirk Cousins?

Not if they can sign Cousins outright next offseason.

That seems to be the "smart" move.