Bradley Chubb DE North Carolina State

Originally posted by Giedi:

I dunno, on offense, you can do that. Kyle is a master player evaluator on the offensive side. He can make dirt look like pure gold - with his offensive coaching skills. Defensively is another matter. What I'm worried about is - yes, say we trade down, and we get an Andre Carter instead of a Dwight Freeny. Yeck. Andre was nowhere near the player Freeny was. That's my fear.

Carter went #7 in the draft. How are you sure that Chubb won't be another Carter?



There is risk with all of these players and when you move up for a guy you are further amping up the consequences if they bust on you.



I just don't think they are in a good position to go all in on any one player. Don't let the Garoppolo Effect fool you, this team doesn't have close to a playoff caliber roster right now.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I dunno, on offense, you can do that. Kyle is a master player evaluator on the offensive side. He can make dirt look like pure gold - with his offensive coaching skills. Defensively is another matter. What I'm worried about is - yes, say we trade down, and we get an Andre Carter instead of a Dwight Freeny. Yeck. Andre was nowhere near the player Freeny was. That's my fear.

Lets not get to crazy here. Offense was not looking good before Jimmy G.

Originally posted by Jcool:
Lets not get to crazy here. Offense was not looking good before Jimmy G.

This. If you become over-dependent on your QB to make everything work, you wind up like the Colts or Packers who underwent a complete collapse when their QB's went down. I want to see them continue to add talent throughout the entire roster, defense, offense, special teams.

Originally posted by Giedi:

I think you are not valuing the kind of scheme Kyle uses. Keep in mind the ZBS needs smaller quicker linemen. Kyle's linemen don't need to be road graders, they just need to be mobile tree stumps. Basically they just need to get in the way of the D Linemen for this offense to work.

But for defense, it's a different matter. The whole 4-3 under relies on that talented elite Edge rusher. It's been that way since Seifert's days as a DC. Get that elite edge rusher right, and we have a dynasty with Jimmy at QB and elite edge rusher at LEO.

Actually I know it's not in his DNA to take him but I feel he will and of course if nelsons not there there's some second round guys I think would do very well in our offense but I'm going by my gut I say somehow we end up with Nelson with our first unless he's taken in the top 4 which I feel the browns might go qb at 1 and Nelson at 4

Originally posted by Hardcoreniner559:
Actually I know it's not in his DNA to take him but I feel he will and of course if nelsons not there there's some second round guys I think would do very well in our offense but I'm going by my gut I say somehow we end up with Nelson with our first unless he's taken in the top 4 which I feel the browns might go qb at 1 and Nelson at 4

I and it seems like a whole lot of Browns fans feel its far more logical for them to take Chubb at #4. No reason to take Nelson when they have two pretty good starting guards already. Putting Chubb opposite of Garrett would give them quite the bookend duo for the next 4 years at least and would be a perfect fit for him as the strongside end.

I think its either going to be Barkley, Chubb or a trade down at #4, especially now that they've acquired Randall and FS isn't a pressing need for them.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

I and it seems like a whole lot of Browns fans feel its far more logical for them to take Chubb at #4. No reason to take Nelson when they have two pretty good starting guards already. Putting Chubb opposite of Garrett would give them quite the bookend duo for the next 4 years at least and would be a perfect fit for him as the strongside end.

I think its either going to be Barkley, Chubb or a trade down at #4, especially now that they've acquired Randall and FS isn't a pressing need for them.

Yea looking at it that way Chubb should be the pick and I hope it is as I don't think there is any elite pass rushers in this draft and I would rather us take Nelson

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I think he'll be good. I like Landry more, because I think he's more likely to generate quick pressures at the NFL level. I also think Chubb is more of a big end than a LEO.

Chubb is a pass rusher, would be a wasted at big end in our scheme.

Chubb has versatility, but playing the LEO role would actually be easier for him.

Granted Landry would get to the QB slightly quicker if he won, I'd much rather take Chubb getting there more often. Number of pressures is better than the speed of them.

Chubb is a monster. I think he is elite, I've just got Myles Garrett tinted glassses when evaluating elite rushers.

I don't think that you and I have the same understanding of this defensive scheme. The big end primarily lines up at an outside shade of the tackle and plays the C gap, but can also be asked to 2 gap the tackle. On passing downs, the big tackle can move inside to rush, like Michael Bennett, or he can stay outside and rush from his edge. Chubb's ability to rush the passer would not be affected by positioning him at big end on base downs.

The LEO, however, is a lighter, quicker, faster DE who is tasked with penetrating and disrupting the backfield more than holding a point. I don't think that this fits Chubb's talent or skill set.

He has explosive power and dynamic hands, which allow him to soften the edge rather than bend around it. That's great, and I actually believe he'll be a pretty good edge rusher. It's just hard for me to see him dominating in the NFL. I don't think he'll run through people like he did in college. I think he'll push the pocket and generate some pressure, but he'll have a sharp learning curve against OL with better leverage and athleticism. I think he's definitely a better edge rusher than Solly, but I think Landry is superior to Chubb as an edge rusher.

Originally posted by Hardcoreniner559:
Yea looking at it that way Chubb should be the pick and I hope it is as I don't think there is any elite pass rushers in this draft and I would rather us take Nelson

To me it makes sense, that would really take their defense up to another level since Ogbah isn't really anything special at DE and would be very good depth instead.

no chance in hell at getting chubb or nelson

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I don't think that you and I have the same understanding of this defensive scheme. The big end primarily lines up at an outside shade of the tackle and plays the C gap, but can also be asked to 2 gap the tackle. On passing downs, the big tackle can move inside to rush, like Michael Bennett, or he can stay outside and rush from his edge. Chubb's ability to rush the passer would not be affected by positioning him at big end on base downs.

The LEO, however, is a lighter, quicker, faster DE who is tasked with penetrating and disrupting the backfield more than holding a point. I don't think that this fits Chubb's talent or skill set.

He has explosive power and dynamic hands, which allow him to soften the edge rather than bend around it. That's great, and I actually believe he'll be a pretty good edge rusher. It's just hard for me to see him dominating in the NFL. I don't think he'll run through people like he did in college. I think he'll push the pocket and generate some pressure, but he'll have a sharp learning curve against OL with better leverage and athleticism. I think he's definitely a better edge rusher than Solly, but I think Landry is superior to Chubb as an edge rusher.

His 3 cone time is one of my concerns. Its one of the best predictors of overall pass rush success off the edge in the NFL, really helps you to determine a guy's change of direction ability.

Chubb ran a 7.37, compared to Von Miller at 6.7, Joey Bosa at 6.89, Cliff Avril at 6.90, Vic Beasley at 6.91, Melvin Ingram at 6.83, Khalil Mack at 7.07, Aaron Donald at 7.11, Chandler Jones at 7.07.

Guys like Ngakoue and Lawrence had slowish 3 cone times as well but mostly the 3 cone seems to be a good predictor of pass rush potential for the NFL, not a guarantee obviously since guys with good and bad times flop all the time.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

To me it makes sense, that would really take their defense up to another level since Ogbah isn't really anything special at DE and would be very good depth instead.

Also there new gm loves to build defenses and always does a great job he did with our and Seattles

Originally posted by Hardcoreniner559:
Also there new gm loves to build defenses and always does a great job he did with our and Seattles

Dorsey is the GM but McCloughan is in his best possible role, as the helper, which is what he was when the 49ers and Seattle put together some very good drafts. Overall the Browns have put together a pretty good front office so I'm fully expecting them to make a ton of improvement, especially after they Hue Without A Clue.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Carter went #7 in the draft. How are you sure that Chubb won't be another Carter?

There is risk with all of these players and when you move up for a guy you are further amping up the consequences if they bust on you.

I just don't think they are in a good position to go all in on any one player. Don't let the Garoppolo Effect fool you, this team doesn't have close to a playoff caliber roster right now.

Absolutely. If a good trade offer comes at 9 they absolutely should take it.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Hardcoreniner559:
Also there new gm loves to build defenses and always does a great job he did with our and Seattles

Dorsey is the GM but McCloughan is in his best possible role, as the helper, which is what he was when the 49ers and Seattle put together some very good drafts. Overall the Browns have put together a pretty good front office so I'm fully expecting them to make a ton of improvement, especially after they Hue Without A Clue.

Crap owner, though. He could axe everyone if Hue continues to stink.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I don't think that you and I have the same understanding of this defensive scheme. The big end primarily lines up at an outside shade of the tackle and plays the C gap, but can also be asked to 2 gap the tackle. On passing downs, the big tackle can move inside to rush, like Michael Bennett, or he can stay outside and rush from his edge. Chubb's ability to rush the passer would not be affected by positioning him at big end on base downs.

The LEO, however, is a lighter, quicker, faster DE who is tasked with penetrating and disrupting the backfield more than holding a point. I don't think that this fits Chubb's talent or skill set.

He has explosive power and dynamic hands, which allow him to soften the edge rather than bend around it. That's great, and I actually believe he'll be a pretty good edge rusher. It's just hard for me to see him dominating in the NFL. I don't think he'll run through people like he did in college. I think he'll push the pocket and generate some pressure, but he'll have a sharp learning curve against OL with better leverage and athleticism. I think he's definitely a better edge rusher than Solly, but I think Landry is superior to Chubb as an edge rusher.

His 3 cone time is one of my concerns. Its one of the best predictors of overall pass rush success off the edge in the NFL, really helps you to determine a guy's change of direction ability.

Chubb ran a 7.37, compared to Von Miller at 6.7, Joey Bosa at 6.89, Cliff Avril at 6.90, Vic Beasley at 6.91, Melvin Ingram at 6.83, Khalil Mack at 7.07, Aaron Donald at 7.11, Chandler Jones at 7.07.

Guys like Ngakoue and Lawrence had slowish 3 cone times as well but mostly the 3 cone seems to be a good predictor of pass rush potential for the NFL, not a guarantee obviously since guys with good and bad times flop all the time.

That's fair. I didn't expect Chubb to have a great time, but I wouldn't have been surprised if it was faster. He seems pretty athletic, and I was willing to accept his apparent rigidity as a preference of power over speed rush. Now it would seem that Chubb's style is due to necessity, rather than preference. It's always a big deal. Aldon Smith had a bad 3-cone (not as bad as Chubb, but pretty bad), but he softened the edge with his hand technique, much like Chubb does. I see Chubb as less athletic than Aldon (Smith accelerated to the QB after clearing contact as well as anyone I can remember) and more rigid than Landry.

I fully expected Landry to post a great 3-cone and he did. That bend had to show up on the clock. With him self-reporting that he actually trained himself to bend like that (very difficult), I would expect him to be able to elevate his hand game considerably (not difficult). I coach defensive line, and improving hand technique is the easiest part of my job.

edit: it's NOT always a big deal