DK Metcalf

Wait, Rascal are you advocating that the 9ers should take Metcalf #2 overall?

Originally posted by Rascal:
That's all relative. To me, 5'11" is just average size, I prefer 6'3" type WRs. I am not saying Deebo Samuel is crap, I think he is great in terms of run after the catch. But, he isn't much different to the type of WRs we have. No, I want that tall, big, outside WR who can be a match-up nightmare and legit red zone weapon.

So you wouldn't like OBJ, Nuk, Adams, Keenan Allen, AB (as a player) etc on our team? None of them are 6-3+

Deebo is vastly different from any of the WRs we currently have on this team not sure how you can say that? A guy like Deebo is a matchup nightmare, you can use him at all three spots and even line him up in the backfield if you really want. He also had 11 Tds this past yr, he knows how to get in the RZ.

The whole you need to be big to score in the RZ is so over blown. People acting like teams throw fades or some s**t all the time

Again I do like me some DK special athlete, I think someone like Deebo or hell even AJ Brown would do real well in Kyle's scheme.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rascal:
That is precisely Shanahan's problem. In my view, he totally underestimates the advantage of height, strength and reach. You can learn to run better routes, but if you are born skinny, you are never going to be a DK Metcalf. So, he picks guys like Pettis who is as thin as a piece of paper or signs a guy like Goodwin who is soft, both of whom not only cannot outmuscle the DBs, they can't take the hits from the DBs and ends up getting injured and taking time off.

I strongly believe we need a true No.1 WR that has height, size, strength and reach. A guy even when being double-teamed can still go up and get it and bounce off the DBs. We haven't had a red zone weapon for the longest time and Metcalf could be that guy. Well, at least T.O. says DK is like him. LOL.

You don't wake up and magically know how to run routes...that takes yrs and stuff you need to do on your own. Also sometimes you body simply can't make the sudden movement and quick changes needed to be a top end route-runner. DK's body frame might not allow that to happen, hence why he failed at the 3-cone and shuttle.

I agree you can't teach length/speed. You also don't have to be 230lbs to be a good WR. I mean I'm a fan of his, kinda reminds me of TO. Metcalf did look pretty crappy in position drills as well, dropping balls and not crisp. All said I don't see them spending a top 10 pick required to get DK. EDGE is by far a more pressing need and there's pro-bowl talent at the top.

I think we will get a high quality WR in the top of the 2nd end of the day

That's where I'm at. You also can't teach fluidity of hips and quick feet. Everyone wants that big giant, outmuscle receiver, but how many times have we seen teams pick guys like this off measureables and then end up, meh.

I don't think Shanny believes it's not advantageous to have a #1. He just wants a guy that can be a great route runner above everything. If that guy is big, tall and strong too, awesome. But, he's not going to go get a guy just because he's big strong and can out-muscle. That guy also have to be able to run precise routes. The two don't go hand in hand very often. But, let's look at some of the greatest receivers to every play the game.
Jerry Rice
Randy Moss
T.O.
Chris Carter
Larry Fitzgerald
Isaac Bruce
Tim Brown
Steve Smith
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Andre Johnson
Anquan Boldin

Those are all the guys with over 1k receptions and close to or over 14k yards.
The only guys that fit that, tall, big and strong mold are T.O. and Andre Johnson.

What's the common thread among every other receiver? Great route runners. Also, Andre and T.O. were great route runners too.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You don't wake up and magically know how to run routes...that takes yrs and stuff you need to do on your own. Also sometimes you body simply can't make the sudden movement and quick changes needed to be a top end route-runner. DK's body frame might not allow that to happen, hence why he failed at the 3-cone and shuttle.

I agree you can't teach length/speed. You also don't have to be 230lbs to be a good WR. I mean I'm a fan of his, kinda reminds me of TO. Metcalf did look pretty crappy in position drills as well, dropping balls and not crisp. All said I don't see them spending a top 10 pick required to get DK. EDGE is by far a more pressing need and there's pro-bowl talent at the top.

I think we will get a high quality WR in the top of the 2nd end of the day

Well, there is one thing that you said which is already enough. He reminds you of T.O., actually I am sure you must have read the article too, even T.O. himself says Metcalf is like him. LOL. If that is not good enough then I don't know what is. Just saying.

Sure, Metcalf might not be the shiftiest guy in terms of change of direction, but the dude not only has size, he runs a 4.33 which means he can burn DBs or even say if some fast DBs could hang with him, the dude can jump a 40 1/2" vertical which means he will totally dominate and tower over the DBs. Last but not least, have you seen his body? The dude is massive and strong AF with 27 reps of 225lbs bench press. The dude is like a bull.

If Bosa is there at 2, sure we will take him. But if the Cards ends up taking Bosa instead of Murray then what? Just take Allen at 2? I think we can consider trading down to take Metcalf and an EDGE. I think there is a drop-off after Bosa and I don't think Allen is worth the 2 pick. There are a ton of EDGE and/or D-linemen in this draft. We can kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Wait, Rascal are you advocating that the 9ers should take Metcalf #2 overall?

No, but if the Cards end up taking Bosa, I think we should at least think about trading down to take Metcalf and an EDGE lower down. I think there is a drop-off in terms of EDGE after Bosa and I don't think Allen is worth the 2 pick plus this draft is full of EDGE and/or D-linemen.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So you wouldn't like OBJ, Nuk, Adams, Keenan Allen, AB (as a player) etc on our team? None of them are 6-3+

Deebo is vastly different from any of the WRs we currently have on this team not sure how you can say that? A guy like Deebo is a matchup nightmare, you can use him at all three spots and even line him up in the backfield if you really want. He also had 11 Tds this past yr, he knows how to get in the RZ.

The whole you need to be big to score in the RZ is so over blown. People acting like teams throw fades or some s**t all the time

Again I do like me some DK special athlete, I think someone like Deebo or hell even AJ Brown would do real well in Kyle's scheme.

Actually, teams do throw fades all the time.

I am not a fan of OBJ and all those WRs you mentioned. If one day the 9ers decide to break the bank to trade for an elite WR, I would pick Julio over anyone. But, that's just me, it is my preference. I never like skinny guys like OBJ. Guys like that are one hit away from injury.

I think Deebo and AJ Brown are both OK, but if you are looking for a game changer then Metcalf is your guy.

Football is like this, one deep ball or massive chunk play can change the momentum of the entire game which is Metcalf's specialty. AJ is his teammate right? You've seen his highlights right? How many deep plays did you see on AJ? Next to none. And you know why? Because Metcalf is Ole Miss's go-to guy for all the deep routes.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rascal:
That is precisely Shanahan's problem. In my view, he totally underestimates the advantage of height, strength and reach. You can learn to run better routes, but if you are born skinny, you are never going to be a DK Metcalf. So, he picks guys like Pettis who is as thin as a piece of paper or signs a guy like Goodwin who is soft, both of whom not only cannot outmuscle the DBs, they can't take the hits from the DBs and ends up getting injured and taking time off.

I strongly believe we need a true No.1 WR that has height, size, strength and reach. A guy even when being double-teamed can still go up and get it and bounce off the DBs. We haven't had a red zone weapon for the longest time and Metcalf could be that guy. Well, at least T.O. says DK is like him. LOL.

You don't wake up and magically know how to run routes...that takes yrs and stuff you need to do on your own. Also sometimes you body simply can't make the sudden movement and quick changes needed to be a top end route-runner. DK's body frame might not allow that to happen, hence why he failed at the 3-cone and shuttle.

I agree you can't teach length/speed. You also don't have to be 230lbs to be a good WR. I mean I'm a fan of his, kinda reminds me of TO. Metcalf did look pretty crappy in position drills as well, dropping balls and not crisp. All said I don't see them spending a top 10 pick required to get DK. EDGE is by far a more pressing need and there's pro-bowl talent at the top.

I think we will get a high quality WR in the top of the 2nd end of the day

That's where I'm at. You also can't teach fluidity of hips and quick feet. Everyone wants that big giant, outmuscle receiver, but how many times have we seen teams pick guys like this off measureables and then end up, meh.

I don't think Shanny believes it's not advantageous to have a #1. He just wants a guy that can be a great route runner above everything. If that guy is big, tall and strong too, awesome. But, he's not going to go get a guy just because he's big strong and can out-muscle. That guy also have to be able to run precise routes. The two don't go hand in hand very often. But, let's look at some of the greatest receivers to every play the game.
Jerry Rice
Randy Moss
T.O.
Chris Carter
Larry Fitzgerald
Isaac Bruce
Tim Brown
Steve Smith
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Andre Johnson
Anquan Boldin

Those are all the guys with over 1k receptions and close to or over 14k yards.
The only guys that fit that, tall, big and strong mold are T.O. and Andre Johnson.

What's the common thread among every other receiver? Great route runners. Also, Andre and T.O. were great route runners too.

First of all, just for your info, even T.O. himself says Metcalf is like him for what is worth.

Also, what about Megatron? He is not tall, big and strong?

I'm still hoping he falls and we can possibly jump up and get him. As unlikely as that sounds last year all the big receivers dropped like crazy.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rascal:
That is precisely Shanahan's problem. In my view, he totally underestimates the advantage of height, strength and reach. You can learn to run better routes, but if you are born skinny, you are never going to be a DK Metcalf. So, he picks guys like Pettis who is as thin as a piece of paper or signs a guy like Goodwin who is soft, both of whom not only cannot outmuscle the DBs, they can't take the hits from the DBs and ends up getting injured and taking time off.

I strongly believe we need a true No.1 WR that has height, size, strength and reach. A guy even when being double-teamed can still go up and get it and bounce off the DBs. We haven't had a red zone weapon for the longest time and Metcalf could be that guy. Well, at least T.O. says DK is like him. LOL.

You don't wake up and magically know how to run routes...that takes yrs and stuff you need to do on your own. Also sometimes you body simply can't make the sudden movement and quick changes needed to be a top end route-runner. DK's body frame might not allow that to happen, hence why he failed at the 3-cone and shuttle.

I agree you can't teach length/speed. You also don't have to be 230lbs to be a good WR. I mean I'm a fan of his, kinda reminds me of TO. Metcalf did look pretty crappy in position drills as well, dropping balls and not crisp. All said I don't see them spending a top 10 pick required to get DK. EDGE is by far a more pressing need and there's pro-bowl talent at the top.

I think we will get a high quality WR in the top of the 2nd end of the day

That's where I'm at. You also can't teach fluidity of hips and quick feet. Everyone wants that big giant, outmuscle receiver, but how many times have we seen teams pick guys like this off measureables and then end up, meh.

I don't think Shanny believes it's not advantageous to have a #1. He just wants a guy that can be a great route runner above everything. If that guy is big, tall and strong too, awesome. But, he's not going to go get a guy just because he's big strong and can out-muscle. That guy also have to be able to run precise routes. The two don't go hand in hand very often. But, let's look at some of the greatest receivers to every play the game.
Jerry Rice
Randy Moss
T.O.
Chris Carter
Larry Fitzgerald
Isaac Bruce
Tim Brown
Steve Smith
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Andre Johnson
Anquan Boldin

Those are all the guys with over 1k receptions and close to or over 14k yards.
The only guys that fit that, tall, big and strong mold are T.O. and Andre Johnson.

What's the common thread among every other receiver? Great route runners. Also, Andre and T.O. were great route runners too.

First of all, just for your info, even T.O. himself says Metcalf is like him for what is worth.

Also, what about Megatron? He is not tall, big and strong?

Ok, enough with, "T.O. says he looks like him" you've said that about 12 times.

Calvin didn't fit the criteria. He had 731 receptions and 11,619 yards. While megatron was a dominant player, if we're looking at statistical performance he's not even close to those guys on that list.

The biggest difference between T.O. and Metcalf was that T.O. wasn't nearly as big as he was later on coming out of college. Owens wasn't drafted for his muscle, he was drafted because he was a great route runner and had a good frame. The weight and muscle came later.

His 1997 trading card had him at 213 lbs whereas by the time he got to the Cowboys he was 224.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I'm still hoping he falls and we can possibly jump up and get him. As unlikely as that sounds last year all the big receivers dropped like crazy.

I can't see it, not after his combine performance. I am telling you, those complaints about his 3-cone drill is BS, teams won't care about that because he has so many upsides , his 40, vertical and bench press were off the charts. Then, you combine that with his height, size and strength?

I will tell you something else too. Before Metcalf blew up the combine, Jeremiah had him as the 16th best player on his big board, so worst case scenario he should be gone by mid 1st round.

Like I said, unless the Cards take Bosa, I just can't see it. It will also require Shanny to grow some balls in order to trade down to get him plus not to confine himself to his smaller shiftier WRs.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok, enough with, "T.O. says he looks like him" you've said that about 12 times.

Calvin didn't fit the criteria. He had 731 receptions and 11,619 yards. While megatron was a dominant player, if we're looking at statistical performance he's not even close to those guys on that list.

The biggest difference between T.O. and Metcalf was that T.O. wasn't nearly as big as he was later on coming out of college. Owens wasn't drafted for his muscle, he was drafted because he was a great route runner and had a good frame. The weight and muscle came later.

His 1997 trading card had him at 213 lbs whereas by the time he got to the Cowboys he was 224.

How could you possibly say that?!! Megatron retired early, that is not to say he was worse, if he had carried on playing he would be up there too.

As for T.O. I have only said it like twice? And you called that 12 times? LOL. But, since we are on the subject, I might as well post the actual clip:

Originally posted by Rascal:
Well, there is one thing that you said which is already enough. He reminds you of T.O., actually I am sure you must have read the article too, even T.O. himself says Metcalf is like him. LOL. If that is not good enough then I don't know what is. Just saying.

Sure, Metcalf might not be the shiftiest guy in terms of change of direction, but the dude not only has size, he runs a 4.33 which means he can burn DBs or even say if some fast DBs could hang with him, the dude can jump a 40 1/2" vertical which means he will totally dominate and tower over the DBs. Last but not least, have you seen his body? The dude is massive and strong AF with 27 reps of 225lbs bench press. The dude is like a bull.

If Bosa is there at 2, sure we will take him. But if the Cards ends up taking Bosa instead of Murray then what? Just take Allen at 2? I think we can consider trading down to take Metcalf and an EDGE. I think there is a drop-off after Bosa and I don't think Allen is worth the 2 pick. There are a ton of EDGE and/or D-linemen in this draft. We can kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

I will add I think TO is a better route runner. TO also ran a much better 20 yard shuttle. I see the comp based on size/speed and ability to break tackles. You gotta throw in his injury history, which has been a problem as well. I like him just not drafting a WR over an edge rusher.

You say just move down and take him, okay that's cool who you then taking at EDGE? I think the drop off at pass rusher is pretty clear after say the top 10 or so vs I feel like there will be a pretty damn good WR sitting there at 36. Kyle has shown he can take a WR and make them good BUT you need real talent at edge.

I think Gordon is a better comparison than TO. TO was a college b ball player. Uber athlete all around. With Gordon you have a guy with a small college track record, and even in the pros had a limited route tree. Still a beast.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Actually, teams do throw fades all the time.

I am not a fan of OBJ and all those WRs you mentioned. If one day the 9ers decide to break the bank to trade for an elite WR, I would pick Julio over anyone. But, that's just me, it is my preference. I never like skinny guys like OBJ. Guys like that are one hit away from injury.

I think Deebo and AJ Brown are both OK, but if you are looking for a game changer then Metcalf is your guy.

Football is like this, one deep ball or massive chunk play can change the momentum of the entire game which is Metcalf's specialty. AJ is his teammate right? You've seen his highlights right? How many deep plays did you see on AJ? Next to none. And you know why? Because Metcalf is Ole Miss's go-to guy for all the deep routes.

Okay, well if you're not a fan of OBJ, Nuk, and AB (as a player) then I guess we got nothing to talk about. Nuk IMO is the best WR in the NFL. Those 3 combined over the course of 4 yrs have 117TDs, so I don't want to debate about having to have size to score TDs. Not sure why size is such a thing for you? I don't want munchkin WRs, but they don't have to be 6-3+ to be f**king good.

Difference between Juilo and DK is not only is Juilo big and fast dude is a top end route-runner with great change of direction...he ran a 6.66 3-cone, which is the 90% percentile. DK ran a 7.38 3-cone which is in the 2nd percentile. He will be limited on what he can do at the next level, doesn't mean he will be awful at all but he will be limited.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok, enough with, "T.O. says he looks like him" you've said that about 12 times.

Calvin didn't fit the criteria. He had 731 receptions and 11,619 yards. While megatron was a dominant player, if we're looking at statistical performance he's not even close to those guys on that list.

The biggest difference between T.O. and Metcalf was that T.O. wasn't nearly as big as he was later on coming out of college. Owens wasn't drafted for his muscle, he was drafted because he was a great route runner and had a good frame. The weight and muscle came later.

His 1997 trading card had him at 213 lbs whereas by the time he got to the Cowboys he was 224.

How could you possibly say that?!! Megatron retired early, that is not to say he was worse, if he had carried on playing he would be up there too.

As for T.O. I have only said it like twice? And you called that 12 times? LOL. But, since we are on the subject, I might as well post the actual clip:

Never said he was worse. I said he didn't fit the criteria of statistical performance. I was looking at the greatest receivers of all time. Over 1k receptions at about or over 14k yards.(I did about because Chris Carter and Boldin were both less than 250 yards shy of 14k).

Why did Johnson retire early? He was dealing with some injury problems and his body breaking down(hmmmm Metcalf already has had injury problems too).

My point is that the vast majority of great receivers are great route runners with high agility and quick feet. NOT big giants.

Metcalf becoming a great player would be a far exception, not the rule.

I was beating the Mike Williams drum a couple years ago and was making comparisons of him to T.O.

He's been meh. He's a nice RZ target, I'll give you that. But he had less than 700 yards receiving last year. Hardly worth a 1st round pick.