DK Metcalf

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I will add I think TO is a better route runner. TO also ran a much better 20 yard shuttle. I see the comp based on size/speed and ability to break tackles. You gotta throw in his injury history, which has been a problem as well. I like him just not drafting a WR over an edge rusher.

You say just move down and take him, okay that's cool who you then taking at EDGE? I think the drop off at pass rusher is pretty clear after say the top 10 or so vs I feel like there will be a pretty damn good WR sitting there at 36. Kyle has shown he can take a WR and make them good BUT you need real talent at edge.

Also, don't forget we have free agency. We have EDGE options there, how about signing Tre Flowers/Houston/Fowler? Then, we take an EDGE in the 2nd? That should boost up our pass rushing capability quite a bit right?

Or someone just reminded me of another WR choice who will be there at 36 and actually excites me more than Deebo or AJ. How about N-Keal Harry?

Originally posted by Rascal:
I can't see it, not after his combine performance. I am telling you, those complaints about his 3-cone drill is BS, teams won't care about that because he has so many upsides , his 40, vertical and bench press were off the charts. Then, you combine that with his height, size and strength?

I will tell you something else too. Before Metcalf blew up the combine, Jeremiah had him as the 16th best player on his big board, so worst case scenario he should be gone by mid 1st round.

Like I said, unless the Cards take Bosa, I just can't see it. It will also require Shanny to grow some balls in order to trade down to get him plus not to confine himself to his smaller shiftier WRs.

It's not BS, if you can't change directions quickly it limits the routes you can run affectively. I'm sure a team will fall for the measurables and body, I'll bet money it won't be SF unless he drops.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Ok, enough with, "T.O. says he looks like him" you've said that about 12 times.

Calvin didn't fit the criteria. He had 731 receptions and 11,619 yards. While megatron was a dominant player, if we're looking at statistical performance he's not even close to those guys on that list.

The biggest difference between T.O. and Metcalf was that T.O. wasn't nearly as big as he was later on coming out of college. Owens wasn't drafted for his muscle, he was drafted because he was a great route runner and had a good frame. The weight and muscle came later.

His 1997 trading card had him at 213 lbs whereas by the time he got to the Cowboys he was 224.

How could you possibly say that?!! Megatron retired early, that is not to say he was worse, if he had carried on playing he would be up there too.

As for T.O. I have only said it like twice? And you called that 12 times? LOL. But, since we are on the subject, I might as well post the actual clip:

Never said he was worse. I said he didn't fit the criteria of statistical performance. I was looking at the greatest receivers of all time. Over 1k receptions at about or over 14k yards.(I did about because Chris Carter and Boldin were both less than 250 yards shy of 14k).

Why did Johnson retire early? He was dealing with some injury problems and his body breaking down(hmmmm Metcalf already has had injury problems too).

My point is that the vast majority of great receivers are great route runners with high agility and quick feet. NOT big giants.

Metcalf becoming a great player would be a far exception, not the rule.

I was beating the Mike Williams drum a couple years ago and was making comparisons of him to T.O.

He's been meh. He's a nice RZ target, I'll give you that. But he had less than 700 yards receiving last year. Hardly worth a 1st round pick.

Just to point out, I would consider Fitz to fit the big, tall, and fast mold.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Also, don't forget we have free agency. We have EDGE options there, how about signing Tre Flowers/Houston/Fowler? Then, we take an EDGE in the 2nd? That should boost up our pass rushing capability quite a bit right?

Or someone just reminded me of another WR choice who will be there at 36 and actually excites me more than Deebo or AJ. How about N-Keal Harry?

We will see about FA. Flowers by all reports is heading to Miami or possibly Detroit. Also not all about paying him $17 million per. Harry or Harmon in the 2nd are possibilities. Harmon is a very good route-runner and catches everything. I haven't watch much of Harry because he seemed slow as dirt and not a great route-runner.

I'm telling ya, Kyle values a couple things at WR. Route-running/ability to separate, speed, quickness, blocking. There's a reason why he loves him some OBJ and we tried trading for him last yr.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Okay, well if you're not a fan of OBJ, Nuk, and AB (as a player) then I guess we got nothing to talk about. Nuk IMO is the best WR in the NFL. Those 3 combined over the course of 4 yrs have 117TDs, so I don't want to debate about having to have size to score TDs. Not sure why size is such a thing for you? I don't want munchkin WRs, but they don't have to be 6-3+ to be f**king good.

Difference between Juilo and DK is not only is Juilo big and fast dude is a top end route-runner with great change of direction...he ran a 6.66 3-cone, which is the 90% percentile. DK ran a 7.38 3-cone which is in the 2nd percentile. He will be limited on what he can do at the next level, doesn't mean he will be awful at all but he will be limited.

OBJ is a munchkin. Why do I like bigger guys? Even if they are not big, I am used to watching taller guys catching deep balls outside of the numbers most of the time. My ideal height is 6'4", but 6'2" and above are OK. Am I the only dude in the world who prefers taller, bigger WRs? You don't think typically outside WRs tend to be taller and bigger while slot WRs are smaller?? And teams tend to pay a higher premium for outside WRs?

As for DK's route running ability, guess who is our WR coach these days? Wes Welker, I am pretty sure Wes will be able to turn him into a stud.

DK's 10 yard split of 1.45 might be the fastest ever. What he lacks in agility, change of direction he makes up in explosiveness.

I'll say it again he's not my pick I'm Bosa all the way but I don't see him failing barring injury.

Originally posted by Rascal:
OBJ is a munchkin. Why do I like bigger guys? Even if they are not big, I am used to watching taller guys catching deep balls outside of the numbers most of the time. My ideal height is 6'4", but 6'2" and above are OK. Am I the only dude in the world who prefers taller, bigger WRs? You don't think typically outside WRs tend to be taller and bigger while slot WRs are smaller?? And teams tend to pay a higher premium for outside WRs?

As for DK's route running ability, guess who is our WR coach these days? Wes Welker, I am pretty sure Wes will be able to turn him into a stud.

sound like a size queen big or small all I care about is if you can get open. AB caught more deep balls on the outside then anyone and is 5-10 Hopkins catches every damn ball that is throw to him and is 6-1.

It's not as simple as saying someone can teach him, he simply might not be able to do it at a high level. If he would have tested better at the quickness/agility drills and actually looked good in the other catching drills, I bet SF would have been all over him in a trade down. I don't think it's gonna happen though. sorry my man.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It's not BS, if you can't change directions quickly it limits the routes you can run affectively. I'm sure a team will fall for the measurables and body, I'll bet money it won't be SF unless he drops.

It is BS in the context of he totally blew up the combine with his other drills. Not everyone is perfect, so teams will overlook his cones time because there are so many other upsides.

Well, Jeremiah has him going at 9 to the Bills. And even before he blew up the combine, he was 16th on his big board.

Alright tell me, where would you rank him on your big board and when do you think he should be taken then?

Of course the chances are we won't take him because Shanahan confines himself to these shiftier WRs which is his detriment as we have already seen. He has to learn that he can actually mix and match. Plus like I've already said before, he has to learn to appreciate the advantage of height, size, speed, reach and strength.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Ok, enough with, "T.O. says he looks like him" you've said that about 12 times.

Calvin didn't fit the criteria. He had 731 receptions and 11,619 yards. While megatron was a dominant player, if we're looking at statistical performance he's not even close to those guys on that list.

The biggest difference between T.O. and Metcalf was that T.O. wasn't nearly as big as he was later on coming out of college. Owens wasn't drafted for his muscle, he was drafted because he was a great route runner and had a good frame. The weight and muscle came later.

His 1997 trading card had him at 213 lbs whereas by the time he got to the Cowboys he was 224.

How could you possibly say that?!! Megatron retired early, that is not to say he was worse, if he had carried on playing he would be up there too.

As for T.O. I have only said it like twice? And you called that 12 times? LOL. But, since we are on the subject, I might as well post the actual clip:

Never said he was worse. I said he didn't fit the criteria of statistical performance. I was looking at the greatest receivers of all time. Over 1k receptions at about or over 14k yards.(I did about because Chris Carter and Boldin were both less than 250 yards shy of 14k).

Why did Johnson retire early? He was dealing with some injury problems and his body breaking down(hmmmm Metcalf already has had injury problems too).

My point is that the vast majority of great receivers are great route runners with high agility and quick feet. NOT big giants.

Metcalf becoming a great player would be a far exception, not the rule.

I was beating the Mike Williams drum a couple years ago and was making comparisons of him to T.O.

He's been meh. He's a nice RZ target, I'll give you that. But he had less than 700 yards receiving last year. Hardly worth a 1st round pick.

Just to point out, I would consider Fitz to fit the big, tall, and fast mold.

Fitzgerald ran a 4.48 40.

As of right now wr might be a bigger need then edge rusher. Lots of guys in the draft and in free agency.wr on the other hand not so much. We may have the worst group of wrs in the NFL. The few guys we do have are hurt on a daily.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rascal:

I can't see it, not after his combine performance. I am telling you, those complaints about his 3-cone drill is BS, teams won't care about that because he has so many upsides , his 40, vertical and bench press were off the charts. Then, you combine that with his height, size and strength?

I will tell you something else too. Before Metcalf blew up the combine, Jeremiah had him as the 16th best player on his big board, so worst case scenario he should be gone by mid 1st round.

Like I said, unless the Cards take Bosa, I just can't see it. It will also require Shanny to grow some balls in order to trade down to get him plus not to confine himself to his smaller shiftier WRs.

It's not BS, if you can't change directions quickly it limits the routes you can run affectively. I'm sure a team will fall for the measurables and body, I'll bet money it won't be SF unless he drops.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Rascal:
It is BS in the context of he totally blew up the combine with his other drills. Not everyone is perfect, so teams will overlook his cones time because there are so many other upsides.

Well, Jeremiah has him going at 9 to the Bills. And even before he blew up the combine, he was 16th on his big board.

Alright tell me, where would you rank him on your big board and when do you think he should be taken then?

Of course the chances are we won't take him because Shanahan confines himself to these shiftier WRs which is his detriment as we have already seen. He has to learn that he can actually mix and match. Plus like I've already said before, he has to learn to appreciate the advantage of height, size, speed, reach and strength.

Oh I'm not saying he sucks or anything. I'm saying the 3-cone and 20 yard shuttle are very important drills for WRs and really just about any position group outside of QB.

I think he's a top 10 player, been saying it well before the combine...now it will depend on his health which has been a red flag all through college.

Shanny did meet with him at the combine FWIW

Originally posted by NYniner85:
We will see about FA. Flowers by all reports is heading to Miami or possibly Detroit. Also not all about paying him $17 million per. Harry or Harmon in the 2nd are possibilities. Harmon is a very good route-runner and catches everything. I haven't watch much of Harry because he seemed slow as dirt and not a great route-runner.

I'm telling ya, Kyle values a couple things at WR. Route-running/ability to separate, speed, quickness, blocking. There's a reason why he loves him some OBJ and we tried trading for him last yr.

That is why I said Shanahan is shooting himself in the foot. Because he played WR, so he only focused on those things that you mentioned and completely ignored the advantage of height, size, reach and strength. He pulls the same stunt on our O-line too, but let's not go there as a lot of people are mega pis*ed about losing Trent Brown.

Just look at Pettis and Goodwin, they are too small and skinny and can't take the hits, let alone dominate. Please don't trade for OBJ for cry out loud!!

his dad was soo much fun to watch play. kind of a malcontent but exciting

Originally posted by Rascal:

That is why I said Shanahan is shooting himself in the foot. Because he played WR, so he only focused on those things that you mentioned and completely ignored the advantage of height, size, reach and strength. He pulls the same stunt on our O-line too, but let's not go there as a lot of people are mega pis*ed about losing Trent Brown.

Just look at Pettis and Goodwin, they are too small and skinny and can't take the hits, let alone dominate. Please don't trade for OBJ for cry out loud!!

Shanny's o's in Houston, Atlanta >>>> Washington, SF. I'm not saying Shanny needs a talented big receiver but I'm not going to poo poo the idea of getting one.