DK Metcalf

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Willie Mcginest is the outlier when it comes to
Bosa though. He's literally the only person worth mentioning to knock him like that from anything I've seen on tv or social media. Everyone otherwise generally thinks he will be great.

I love DK, but I could never draft him over the top 3 defenders while also knowing how bad our defense was last year.

Bro, you could say the same thing about Solomon Thomas too. You need to learn to read between the lines if you will. That is how busts slip through the fingers.

When you draft a guy at 2, there is huge expectations on the player and quite rightly so. Like I said, I am not against picking an EDGE at 2 if there was truly a monster. If Bosa was Von Miller, it would be a no-brainer and I wouldn't even debate with anyone and just grab him at 2. Bosa is not Von Miller. Let me ask you this, do you think Bosa is as good as Von Miller??

As for DK, what I will say is this, I wouldn't draft him at 2 neither. But, at 6 or lower I am pulling the pin and I would take an EDGE in the teens.

But, if you are saying you don't give a damn and will not draft DK over the top 3 defenders which Willie wouldn't even put Bosa at, then, just take Q and be done with it.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Willie Mcginest is the outlier when it comes to
Bosa though. He's literally the only person worth mentioning to knock him like that from anything I've seen on tv or social media. Everyone otherwise generally thinks he will be great.

I love DK, but I could never draft him over the top 3 defenders while also knowing how bad our defense was last year.

Bro, you could say the same thing about Solomon Thomas too. You need to learn to read between the lines if you will. That is how busts slip through the fingers.

When you draft a guy at 2, there is huge expectations on the player and quite rightly so. Like I said, I am not against picking an EDGE at 2 if there was truly a monster. If Bosa was Von Miller, it would be a no-brainer and I wouldn't even debate with anyone and just grab him at 2. Bosa is not Von Miller. Let me ask you this, do you think Bosa is as good as Von Miller??

As for DK, what I will say is this, I wouldn't draft him at 2 neither. But, at 6 or lower I am pulling the pin and I would take an EDGE in the teens.

But, if you are saying you don't give a damn and will not draft DK over the top 3 defenders which Willie wouldn't even put Bosa at, then, just take Q and be done with it.

I think Bosa is the best edge in this draft. I think he's the best player in this draft with QW in that conversation. The way things are right now we are guaranteed one of them. One is still a big need. Both are a big upgrade. With Bosa you know what you're getting. Von Miller is basically HOF caliber. It's not a relevant comparison. It's only right to compare Bosa to the rest of the players in this draft.

Thomas was considered a high pick pre draft, but he's more the mold of DK or Gary - because of his potential and athleticism. Also Thomas has been greatly misused by us so I never really harshly criticize him.

We do agree overall on DK for sure. In a trade down like you said he'd be my guy. If we get Bosa at two I promise you'll be happy come November

Originally posted by Rascal:

He would an overdraft in my opinion. He ain't no Von Miller. Bosa hasn't even broken 8.5 sacks a season in his entire college career. Just so that you have some sort of idea, Von Miller had 17 sacks in 2009 playing for Texas A&M. In terms of my personal evaluation of Bosa, I am with Willie McGinest, as in he isn't a top 3 player. Is he a good defensive player? Sure he is, but not to the degree of a must-draft at the No.2 overall pick.

Listen up, we need to learn our lesson. People in a way did warn us about Solomon Thomas about him being a "tweener", although he ended up being much worse than a tweener, for what is worth it was at least a doubt that a good number of analysts had casted, but Lynch pulled the Stanford alum card and chose to ignore it and the guy busted out.

For the No.2 overall pick, we really can't afford to fxxk up again. You need to look at everything with a microscope. Why only 8.5 sacks? You have to be inquisitive and ask questions. Don't just follow the hype, as in well everyone say he is good then he must be good. Not everyone. Why would Willie pick Q instead of Bosa for us? Willie isn't a scout, the guy played the position, well OLB at a high level for his entire career. May be he knows a thing or two about pass rushers? You can't just be biased and shove a negative analysis to the side just because you are blinded by your preference. Let's have some sort of objectivity, shall we?

This is what I think and I didn't say this myself, like everyone have noted, this draft class is a good year for pass rushers. Agree? There are a good number of pretty good pass rushers. Agree? However, that doesn't mean Bosa is some monster or force of nature that you must draft him as high as No.2 overall. My assessment is, you wouldn't go too much wrong as long as you pick an EDGE within the 1st round. But, at 2? I would say he would be overdrafted. This isn't a diss on Bosa, I think he is a pretty good player, but he is not an exceptional player, that is the difference.

If you truly don't want to trade down (I can't see why) and if you want to take a player disregard of need, then take Q and we will stop talking about Metcalf.

Bosa isn't a tweener. There's no comparing him to Solomon Thomas. We'd draft him to play edge and that's where he's going to play. The lesson with Solly has nothing to do with people seeing him as a safe pick with a high floor pre draft. It's not safe to convert a defensive tackle to defensive end. That's risky as f no matter what his sparq is. I argued extensively that he'd be a bust if we tried him at leo. We did and no shock he sucks at it. Unfortunately no one here knows for sure how the coach would play the guy and everyone had a different vision of him. That's a tweener issue but not an issue with Nick.

Bosa's lack of production is no different than Metcalf which you're conveniently ignoring. They both were held back as sophmores Bosa for depth/ Metcalf in a 1d offense, they both got hurt their junior season.

You shouldn't care if Bosa is Von Miller. Von Miller/ Khalil Mack are special players. Chances are Metcalf won't be Calvin or TO either. The question is can he be a Justin Smith, Joey Bosa. Someone you pair up with Ford and the d line is elite. I think that's the easiest call we ever had.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Rascal:
He would an overdraft in my opinion. He ain't no Von Miller. Bosa hasn't even broken 8.5 sacks a season in his entire college career. Just so that you have some sort of idea, Von Miller had 17 sacks in 2009 playing for Texas A&M. In terms of my personal evaluation of Bosa, I am with Willie McGinest, as in he isn't a top 3 player. Is he a good defensive player? Sure he is, but not to the degree of a must-draft at the No.2 overall pick.

Listen up, we need to learn our lesson. People in a way did warn us about Solomon Thomas about him being a "tweener", although he ended up being much worse than a tweener, for what is worth it was at least a doubt that a good number of analysts had casted, but Lynch pulled the Stanford alum card and chose to ignore it and the guy busted out.

For the No.2 overall pick, we really can't afford to fxxk up again. You need to look at everything with a microscope. Why only 8.5 sacks? You have to be inquisitive and ask questions. Don't just follow the hype, as in well everyone say he is good then he must be good. Not everyone. Why would Willie pick Q instead of Bosa for us? Willie isn't a scout, the guy played the position, well OLB at a high level for his entire career. May be he knows a thing or two about pass rushers? You can't just be biased and shove a negative analysis to the side just because you are blinded by your preference. Let's have some sort of objectivity, shall we?

This is what I think and I didn't say this myself, like everyone have noted, this draft class is a good year for pass rushers. Agree? There are a good number of pretty good pass rushers. Agree? However, that doesn't mean Bosa is some monster or force of nature that you must draft him as high as No.2 overall. My assessment is, you wouldn't go too much wrong as long as you pick an EDGE within the 1st round. But, at 2? I would say he would be overdrafted. This isn't a diss on Bosa, I think he is a pretty good player, but he is not an exceptional player, that is the difference.

If you truly don't want to trade down (I can't see why) and if you want to take a player disregard of need, then take Q and we will stop talking about Metcalf.

Bosa isn't a tweener. There's no comparing him to Solomon Thomas. We'd draft him to play edge and that's where he's going to play. The lesson with Solly has nothing to do with people seeing him as a safe pick with a high floor pre draft. It's not safe to convert a defensive tackle to defensive end. That's risky as f no matter what his sparq is. I argued extensively that he'd be a bust if we tried him at leo. We did and no shock he sucks at it. Unfortunately no one here knows for sure how the coach would play the guy and everyone had a different vision of him. That's a tweener issue but not an issue with Nick.

Bosa's lack of production is no different than Metcalf which you're conveniently ignoring. They both were held back as sophmores Bosa for depth/ Metcalf in a 1d offense, they both got hurt their junior season.

You shouldn't care if Bosa is Von Miller. Von Miller/ Khalil Mack are special players. Chances are Metcalf won't be Calvin or TO either. The question is can he be a Justin Smith, Joey Bosa. Someone you pair up with Ford and the d line is elite. I think that's the easiest call we ever had.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I think Bosa is the best edge in this draft. I think he's the best player in this draft with QW in that conversation. The way things are right now we are guaranteed one of them. One is still a big need. Both are a big upgrade. With Bosa you know what you're getting. Von Miller is basically HOF caliber. It's not a relevant comparison. It's only right to compare Bosa to the rest of the players in this draft.

Thomas was considered a high pick pre draft, but he's more the mold of DK or Gary - because of his potential and athleticism. Also Thomas has been greatly misused by us so I never really harshly criticize him.

We do agree overall on DK for sure. In a trade down like you said he'd be my guy. If we get Bosa at two I promise you'll be happy come November

I don't think the Von Miller example is irrelevant at all. At the time of the draft, did anyone actually think he was going to end up as a HOFer? I highly doubt that. LOL. But, what I wanted to say about Von Miller is, the dude looked right on the field and he had the stats to back him up in order to warrant to be drafted (also) at No.2 overall. In comparison, Bosa simply doesn't have the same quality CV. Surely, you have to agree with that?

Also, I disagree the analysts viewed Solomon Thomas more similar to DK and Gary. If my memory serves me right, Solomon Thomas was quite well regarded by the majority of the analysts and was projected to go at 2 to the 9ers in many mock drafts at the time although the "tweener" issue was raised by a good number of analysts too. So far, only 1 mock has DK going to the 9ers and none for Gary. So, your comparison is definitely off base.

Unlike you, there is no way I can call Bosa the best player in this draft in good conscience because I would be blatantly lying.

Tell me something, if Bosa is the best player in your eyes, what kind of performance are you expecting from him? How many sacks are you looking at ? Give me a number.

My vision of "happiness" come October would be seeing a lesser EDGE such as Ferrell for example killing it for us in partnership with Dee Ford while opposing CBs are constantly getting raped and injured trying to cover DK. LOL.

Originally posted by Rascal:
I don't think the Von Miller example is irrelevant at all. At the time of the draft, did anyone actually think he was going to end up as a HOFer? I highly doubt that. LOL. But, what I wanted to say about Von Miller is, the dude looked right on the field and he had the stats to back him up in order to warrant to be drafted (also) at No.2 overall. In comparison, Bosa simply doesn't have the same quality CV. Surely, you have to agree with that?

Also, I disagree the analysts viewed Solomon Thomas more similar to DK and Gary. If my memory serves me right, Solomon Thomas was quite well regarded by the majority of the analysts and was projected to go at 2 to the 9ers in many mock drafts at the time although the "tweener" issue was raised by a good number of analysts too. So far, only 1 mock has DK going to the 9ers and none for Gary. So, your comparison is definitely off base.

Unlike you, there is no way I can call Bosa the best player in this draft in good conscience because I would be blatantly lying.

Tell me something, if Bosa is the best player in your eyes, what kind of performance are you expecting from him? How many sacks are you looking at ? Give me a number.

My vision of "happiness" come October would be seeing a lesser EDGE such as Ferrell for example killing it for us in partnership with Dee Ford while opposing CBs are constantly getting raped and injured trying to cover DK. LOL.

Solomon was regarded as a high end DT prospect. Issue was he weighed 273 lbs...he was gonna require time to get bigger and for whatever reason they forced him to play vs OTs off the c gap, which he's never done in college. He can't win there and he needs to play the position that did have him regarded as a top 5 player.

There is ZERO question what Bosa will do and what position he will play at the next level. He's a 4-3 DE and is painfully obvious if you watch.

By looking at stats as the end all be all then DK shouldn't even be a 1st rd pick and Sutton Smith should be the first edge off the board. Only that's not real life. Also why are you comparing him to Von? They're different players, that win differently. Von was 20lbs lighter that Bosa and was regarded as a OLB not a DE. We have Von Miller (ford who's a speed rusher), now we need Bradley Chubb on the other side.

I know you didn't ask me, but I envision the same s**t as his brother his rookie yr with 10 sacks. Go look at LA with Ingram and Bosa. Only difference is we actually have a stud interior DL on top of it.

I think every yr you and I go through these debates because you're obsessed with offense. You want flashy skilled players even if they haven't put up the stats you want, yet you use the same principle (stats) to put down someone like Bosa

Give me Bosa and BPA WR at 36. There are some VERY good WRs that will get pushed down because this draft's strength is defense.

When I see Bosa I think a better version of Brandon Graham. Constant pressures, but maybe not the elite sack totals. You pair that up with Ford and Buckner and it boggles my mind that people are second guessing the pick. I like offense as much as the next guy but I'll take the Pittsburgh route of constant 2-4th round picks. Look at the receivers they've found and developed over the years.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

When I see Bosa I think a better version of Brandon Graham. Constant pressures, but maybe not the elite sack totals. You pair that up with Ford and Buckner and it boggles my mind that people are second guessing the pick. I like offense as much as the next guy but I'll take the Pittsburgh route of constant 2-4th round picks. Look at the receivers they've found and developed over the years.

Don't want to make this a Bosa thread, but I agree, I think graham is a good floor comp for Bosa. While Graham doesn't get the elite sexy sack stats, he's been terrorizing QBs for awhile...been near the top in QB pressures for yrs. I also believe he'd have higher sacks numbers if he had an elite speed rusher opposite him like Ford

all this top 5 talk is crazy to me. Even top 10 is too rich for my blood. I understand the upside/projection, but I also am not sold he's that special. I'm not even sure he's the best WR prospect in the draft.

Originally posted by OsBoogie:
I'm not even sure he's the best WR prospect from Ole Miss

fixed

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

When I see Bosa I think a better version of Brandon Graham. Constant pressures, but maybe not the elite sack totals. You pair that up with Ford and Buckner and it boggles my mind that people are second guessing the pick. I like offense as much as the next guy but I'll take the Pittsburgh route of constant 2-4th round picks. Look at the receivers they've found and developed over the years.

Don't want to make this a Bosa thread, but I agree, I think graham is a good floor comp for Bosa. While Graham doesn't get the elite sexy sack stats, he's been terrorizing QBs for awhile...been near the top in QB pressures for yrs. I also believe he'd have higher sacks numbers if he had an elite speed rusher opposite him like Ford

Great comp. I love Graham as a player and badly wanted him here for years. He's not an explosive athlete and at times it prevents him from finishing, but he is one of the best at making QB's uncomfortable and moving them off their spot with mostly technique and power. This is the same reason I loved Chubb and when paired with other threats like Miller/Wolfe, Chubb can now turn some of those pressures into sacks because the QB has no where to go.

I still think Q will have a bigger impact than Bosa, but anyone doubting his fit on this team is . I'd lose my mind if DK were picked over him and would be just as disappointed with even a trade down if we passed on either Q or Bosa to move down and select DK, unless we got something ridiculous like 3 first.

Originally posted by babarvaart:
fixed

true

For the last several years I have been begging that this team drafts a WR like this. 6-3, 228, and 4.3 40. However, I have accepted that this isn't Shanny's type of WR. It just isn't. I can see no scenario - trade back or otherwise - in which DK Matcalf would be drafted by the 49ers, even if he fell to us at the top of the 2nd round. I just don't think Shanny values these type of WR's.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
For the last several years I have been begging that this team drafts a WR like this. 6-3, 228, and 4.3 40. However, I have accepted that this isn't Shanny's type of WR. It just isn't. I can see no scenario - trade back or otherwise - in which DK Matcalf would be drafted by the 49ers, even if he fell to us at the top of the 2nd round. I just don't think Shanny values these type of WR's.

Yep.

We'll see if it works out I guess. But I am not counting on it.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
For the last several years I have been begging that this team drafts a WR like this. 6-3, 228, and 4.3 40. However, I have accepted that this isn't Shanny's type of WR. It just isn't. I can see no scenario - trade back or otherwise - in which DK Matcalf would be drafted by the 49ers, even if he fell to us at the top of the 2nd round. I just don't think Shanny values these type of WR's.

KS before last years draft:

"There aren't many (elite guys)," Shanahan said, via the official website. "If there's a Julio (Jones) available and you have the opportunity to get him, you go get him. It's worth it. Whatever the price is, whatever the draft pick is, go get him. There aren't too many Julio's on this planet. But you don't have to have that to be successful.