Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I mean, if we're talking conventional NT, then yeah, its a pretty s**tty pick. But if you're talking about an NT that can affect the game in so many ways, its a whole other story. Williams is a better prospect than Buckner was, if Williams develops into an even better NFL player, how do you stop those two? You're not running up the middle and your QB is going to have to deal with constant pressure up the gut. You'll have to allocate more blockers to try to hold up against the interior rush to the benefit of your guys on the outside, meaning you don't necessarily need a Von Miller out there, just someone with a high motor that is going to be able to take advantage of regular 1 on 1 matchups.

I get what you're saying, and initially the thought of another DT sounded ridiculous to me too but Williams is clearly the second best player in the class and the stuff that he can do could elevate this defense to another level, even without dominant pass rushers. Sign Graham or Fowler, draft Winovich, Ximenes or Ferguson and take another developmental edge prospect later on in the draft, I think you would have the structure of a defensive line that would give offenses nightmares.

I'm not gonna argue Q is probably the 2nd (could be the top) player in this draft, I'm saying we're chalk full of quality young talent in the interior. IF QW is this dominant force we should have no problem moving down a couple spots imo.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I mean, if we're talking conventional NT, then yeah, its a pretty s**tty pick. But if you're talking about an NT that can affect the game in so many ways, its a whole other story. Williams is a better prospect than Buckner was, if Williams develops into an even better NFL player, how do you stop those two? You're not running up the middle and your QB is going to have to deal with constant pressure up the gut. You'll have to allocate more blockers to try to hold up against the interior rush to the benefit of your guys on the outside, meaning you don't necessarily need a Von Miller out there, just someone with a high motor that is going to be able to take advantage of regular 1 on 1 matchups.

I get what you're saying, and initially the thought of another DT sounded ridiculous to me too but Williams is clearly the second best player in the class and the stuff that he can do could elevate this defense to another level, even without dominant pass rushers. Sign Graham or Fowler, draft Winovich, Ximenes or Ferguson and take another developmental edge prospect later on in the draft, I think you would have the structure of a defensive line that would give offenses nightmares.

I'm not gonna argue Q is probably the 2nd (could be the top) player in this draft, I'm saying we're chalk full of quality young talent in the interior. IF QW is this dominant force we should have no problem moving down a couple spots imo.

That doesn't make sense - if he's this dominant force - teams will be looking to trade up for him.

Another example of his hand use letting him go right past blockers.

Originally posted by mayo49:
That doesn't make sense - if he's this dominant force - teams will be looking to trade up for him.

Teams don't usually move up for DT's. Even for Bosa it isn't likely that anyone will move up for him.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I disagree it reduces the need...great we can get interior pressure, QBs can move out of the pocket if the edge rushers can't contain the QB then what?

ya'll acting like our interior DL sucks or something. They have 3 1st rd players and another 3 draft picks dedicated to the DL.

The offense only has so many guys it can block at once. If you need to double team Buckner and Williams, it stands to reason that one of your guys on the outside are going to get quite a few matchups going up against TE's or RBs. At that point what you need most is someone with a lot of speed, someone better than Marsh. You could sign a Graham or Fowler and draft another of many 2nd/3rd round edge rushers in this draft to cover that need.

Ultimately its about who creates the best mismatches. If you can get Bosa, then obviously you get Bosa because he instantly fills that need on the outside but if he's gone, I don't see a problem with taking Williams. The talent level and the potential matchup issues he creates are very tantalizing.

Phoenix you're absolutely right, NY knows this because it's what he argued when he argued for Solomon Thomas, you won't get him to change his mind because he knows Quinnen signals the end of Solly.

I think it's unanimous that a trade is the preferred but unless you have an agenda you can't argue against the benefits of Quinnen Williams.

It takes big balls to admit when you were wrong, if this situation presents itself I hope Lynch is man enough to take Quinnen and trade Solly.

Originally posted by mayo49:
NY, who do you want us taking at #2 or #3?

Honestly at this pt I don't have a real answer it's Dec IMO it's all about waiting for the trade offers (I'm a fan of Burns/Metcalf/Murphy in a trade down). IF we're unable to move down I'm looking a Jonah Williams (as much as it hurts to say it). He's the best tackle by a mile in this class and will be a day 1 RG that will take over for Joe. At least there isn't a log jam on the OL for him to come into.

I want to be very clear I think QW is a monster. I'm just done with the DT position, at some pt you gotta develop who you have and start getting talent at other positions.

Originally posted by mayo49:
That doesn't make sense - if he's this dominant force - teams will be looking to trade up for him.

Hence why we can move down (because a team wants to trade up for him).

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by mayo49:
That doesn't make sense - if he's this dominant force - teams will be looking to trade up for him.

Teams don't usually move up for DT's. Even for Bosa it isn't likely that anyone will move up for him.

Why don't teams move up? is it because the position overall isn't worth it?

IF SF is asking for the moon that's one thing, but they don't have to. What if Oakland is in love with him at 4? I'll gladly take their 35th pick.

Saints gave up a 2019 1st rd pick to move up and get Davenport last yr.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
NY, who do you want us taking at #2 or #3?

Honestly at this pt I don't have a real answer it's Dec IMO it's all about waiting for the trade offers (I'm a fan of Burns/Metcalf/Murphy in a trade down). IF we're unable to move down I'm looking a Jonah Williams (as much as it hurts to say it). He's the best tackle by a mile in this class and will be a day 1 RG that will take over for Joe. At least there isn't a log jam on the OL for him to come into.

I want to be very clear I think QW is a monster. I'm just done with the DT position, at some pt you gotta develop who you have and start getting talent at other positions.

I hear you - I personally want us to take an ER. But, if not Bosa I like Allen, but #2 or #3, might be too high for him. So, I'm guessing QWill is the next best option.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Phoenix you're absolutely right, NY knows this because it's what he argued when he argued for Solomon Thomas, you won't get him to change his mind because he knows Quinnen signals the end of Solly.

I think it's unanimous that a trade is the preferred but unless you have an agenda you can't argue against the benefits of Quinnen Williams.

It takes big balls to admit when you were wrong, if this situation presents itself I hope Lynch is man enough to take Quinnen and trade Solly.

I like Thomas a lot, I also supported the team drafting him but based on what he's shown, he's never going to give you a whole lot as a pass rusher. I think he can be a solid player inside but if you think that Williams can be an All Pro level NT, Thomas, and especially Armstead, shouldn't even enter the equation. Thomas can play big end and do a very good job at that along with getting some snaps inside as part of a rotation. Armstead, can go somewhere else. He's best suited as a 3-4 DE and will never give you much as a pass rusher.

If you're drafting #2, unless some team blows you away with an amazing tradedown offer, you want to walk away with a GREAT player and to me, outside of Bosa, Williams gives you the best chance for a guy that can be great. You don't have to move him anywhere, you play him at nose tackle right alongside Buckner and let him do his thing.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why don't teams move up? is it because the position overall isn't worth it?

IF SF is asking for the moon that's one thing, but they don't have to. What if Oakland is in love with him at 4? I'll gladly take their 35th pick.

Saints gave up a 2019 1st rd pick to move up and get Davenport last yr.

Teams usually only pay up for QBs historically. Also teams don't want to miss out on the true elite prospects by trading down.

None of this matters because bosa is dropping to us at number 2

Originally posted by rathman4481:
None of this matters because bosa is dropping to us at number 2

Which would be the ideal situation and what I think most are hoping for but if not Bosa, then what do you do? If no team is giving you a decent tradedown offer, then you have to draft someone, in which case, I think either Williams from Bama should be up at the top of the list.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Phoenix you're absolutely right, NY knows this because it's what he argued when he argued for Solomon Thomas, you won't get him to change his mind because he knows Quinnen signals the end of Solly.

I think it's unanimous that a trade is the preferred but unless you have an agenda you can't argue against the benefits of Quinnen Williams.

It takes big balls to admit when you were wrong, if this situation presents itself I hope Lynch is man enough to take Quinnen and trade Solly.

I already said if you're thought process is to get QW then ya trade Thomas and AA while you're at it. I'm fine with that.

BUT in the real world that s**t probably doesn't happen.... instead we have a f**king log jam of interior DL $30+ million in cap space (maybe more if Buck gets a extension) for 4 players that can all play damn near the same role

FYI I've never seen you change your opinion much either brother.

oh and we still can't rush from the outside all said and done.

Originally posted by rathman4481:
None of this matters because bosa is dropping to us at number 2

I'd cream my pants if he fell to us.