Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Adams is the best SS which he proves on film, not because he was voted to the pro bowl. You don't have to say that he's not good to prove Thomas was a good pick. Or maybe you do?

So how was Thomas BPA if a position of need when we had Buckner and Armstead? We had nothing at FS and Hooker was much more productive in college.

No I liked Mahomes, Hooker and Adams. Not Watson. Lol I'm great at self patting. Come on you know I'm never gonna live thi down cause you said Mahomes was notose to Watson as a QB.

Boy you're so dead set on calling me out with Thomas huh? That's like your mission in here I guess....I simply don't think Adams is some game changing S. He's good, but I like my safeties to get turnovers ( I also wanted to keep Reid) also you damn well know the pro-bowl is a popularly contest. I did like Hooker, but again show me all the FS drafted top 3 in the history of the NFL. He had his warts just as well and injuries were a thing with him (and still are). In a bigger trade down I would have been cool with it.

Armstead was trash and at that point offered nothing in 3 yrs, he couldn't even stay on the field. He wasn't part of this FO and IMO is a better 3-4 DE (I still stand by that). Thomas was regarded as a top 5 talent, was he not?? Go look at analysts' big boards all over the place and mock drafts from that yr...he was tops as a run defender and graded out as a top 6 interior pass rusher his senior yr. Stop acting like he sucked in college.

IF you told me the plan was to make him an edge rusher for over a yr in a half, then yup I'd say he wasn't gonna be successful. He's had 5 solid games to play the position that made him a top 5 prospect and holy s**t players around him are doing better and he damn well was a big part of that Seattle win. IF you don't have patience with a player or think they can improve that's your business

FWIW I ate a big pile crow on Mahomes...I didn't believe he was a day 1 starter based on his lack of knowledge in a pro offense ( I still stand by that as well), he went to the perfect situation.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Right...So how was Thomas BPA of position of need? If you actually believed that the pick would have been Hooker or Lattimore. If you knew Thomas could only rush from the inside why all the hate for trying to get that same idea in Quinnen? You have said repeatedly that he can't rush from the outside so why is a run stopping big end a position of need? We all knew we needed outside rusher not outside run stoppers.

BPA and position of need because we literally had no one on that DL besides Buck. AA at that point had done NOTHING and couldn't even stay on the field. Our other interior DL were Quinton Dial and Glenn Dorsey I don't think Thomas is just a run stopping big end I do think he's a 3-tech that can rush the passer next to buck in nickel packages...and it's currently happening (the sacks will come at some pt).

Latt IMO was the only other guy that made sense if we stand at 3...he was also always injured, looking back it makes sense to take him because he plays a impact position. I NEVER said Thomas should be a full time edge rusher, so not sure what that's about. What edge rusher were we suppose to take? there wasn't s**t. IMO this draft has better options then in 2017.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Right...So how was Thomas BPA of position of need? If you actually believed that the pick would have been Hooker or Lattimore. If you knew Thomas could only rush from the inside why all the hate for trying to get that same idea in Quinnen? You have said repeatedly that he can't rush from the outside so why is a run stopping big end a position of need? We all knew we needed outside rusher not outside run stoppers.

BPA and position of need because we literally had no one on that DL besides Buck. AA at that point had done NOTHING and couldn't even stay on the field. Our other interior DL were Quinton Dial and Glenn Dorsey I don't think Thomas is just a run stopping big end I do think he's a 3-tech that can rush the passer next to buck in nickel packages...and it's currently happening (the sacks will come at some pt).

Latt IMO was the only other guy that made sense if we stand at 3...he was also always injured, looking back it makes sense to take him because he plays a impact position. I NEVER said Thomas should be a full time edge rusher, so not sure what that's about. What edge rusher were we suppose to take? there wasn't s**t. IMO this draft has better options then in 2017.

That's bull, AA (when healthy) had shown every bit as much as Solomon, people (not me) had argued that Buck & AA meant you shouldn't draft Solly, you argued (really strongly) that he was so disruptive he needed to be picked. Well he hasn't been, and Quinnen is. We must trade, but the trade could be moving Solly or AA.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Right...So how was Thomas BPA of position of need? If you actually believed that the pick would have been Hooker or Lattimore. If you knew Thomas could only rush from the inside why all the hate for trying to get that same idea in Quinnen? You have said repeatedly that he can't rush from the outside so why is a run stopping big end a position of need? We all knew we needed outside rusher not outside run stoppers.

I was mostly against Solly and would of cut off my left nut sack for Garrett or for a trade that year. Unfortunately the qb class that's leading 3 playoff teams was seen as garbage. There were no great picks that year for us.

The difference with Solly is we had a new scheme/ coaches coming in. You could at least make the argument that AA who cares, Buckner at 3 is an experiment. Buckner is a beast at 3, Solly is Shanny's pick at big end.

Hopefully we don't run into the same scenario this year and either Bosa or the trade down is there for us.

The only way I'd be ok with drafting QW would be if Lynch admitted his mistake in Thomas and moved him to another team similar to the scenario we had last year with the McGlinchy pick and subsequent Brown trade. If Lynch drafts QW he HAS to account for Thomas disappointing after 2 seasons imo. If we draft QW and go into the season with Thomas, QW, Buck, AA all on the team i'd be pretty frustrated unless they hit a slam dunk in some other way for effective edge rush, and plenty of it.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Right...So how was Thomas BPA of position of need? If you actually believed that the pick would have been Hooker or Lattimore. If you knew Thomas could only rush from the inside why all the hate for trying to get that same idea in Quinnen? You have said repeatedly that he can't rush from the outside so why is a run stopping big end a position of need? We all knew we needed outside rusher not outside run stoppers.

I was mostly against Solly and would of cut off my left nut sack for Garrett or for a trade that year. Unfortunately the qb class that's leading 3 playoff teams was seen as garbage. There were no great picks that year for us.

The difference with Solly is we had a new scheme/ coaches coming in. You could at least make the argument that AA who cares, Buckner at 3 is an experiment. Buckner is a beast at 3, Solly is Shanny's pick at big end.

Hopefully we don't run into the same scenario this year and either Bosa or the trade down is there for us.

I'm 100% with you on a trade (up or down) but you've illustrated why we couldn't trade two years ago, if that's the situation again what do you do?

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

I'm 100% with you on a trade (up or down) but you've illustrated why we couldn't trade two years ago, if that's the situation again what do you do?

My thoughts that year was take the 3 qb's and scout them up and down. If you miss you're f'd but Shanny and a hit is a grand slam. Now I'm thinking take the ends and scout them up and down every inch. I'd rather miss there then move sideways. There's other positions too to look at. If one of the ot's shines you can grab Staley's replacement.

I was all over the map that year though and at times was ok with Solly. This year I think our interior is just too solid to even consider a prospect.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

That's bull, AA (when healthy) had shown every bit as much as Solomon, people (not me) had argued that Buck & AA meant you shouldn't draft Solly, you argued (really strongly) that he was so disruptive he needed to be picked. Well he hasn't been, and Quinnen is. We must trade, but the trade could be moving Solly or AA.

Oh please...AA didn't do s**t for 3 yrs dude played in 16 games over the course of two seasons and when he did play, he did exactly what he did in college plug holes and run defend. pass rush was never there, same as in college. Throw in we were coming off a historically bad yr vs the run grabbing th best interior run defender in college football made some sense...The only person arguing that AA to was good was SY and he flip flopped about 100xs

Yeah I argued that he should be an interior rusher, even Shaw stated that's where he should play. Imo he was a better prospect then our 3rd yr injury prone raw DT in AA & like I said we didn't have any young talent outside of Buck

But he got thrown into a horrible position for most of his nfl career playing on the outside. Dude is 285lbs with shorter arms and a tight hips and you want him to beat tackles all day lol? What the f**k!? That's not Thomas' fault for failing out there and you know it.

You act like I was the only person in the whole world that said he was a top 5 talent in that draft, which is a bunch of horse s**t.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

I'm 100% with you on a trade (up or down) but you've illustrated why we couldn't trade two years ago, if that's the situation again what do you do?

My thoughts that year was take the 3 qb's and scout them up and down. I like Jimmy but we'd be better off with Mahomes all things considered. Now I'm thinking take the ends and scout them up and down every inch. If you can legit say they all suck and are unworthy only then would I take a position not of need.

I see where you're coming from, but we know what a top 5 pass rusher looks like, they give tackles fits beating them in multiple ways, and are either double teamed constantly or really productive, they have elite traits, either super athletic, or crazy strong.

Bosa fits, Allen might do, don't think the others have got it.

Originally posted by WINiner:
The only way I'd be ok with drafting QW would be if Lynch admitted his mistake in Thomas and moved him to another team similar to the scenario we had last year with the McGlinchy pick and subsequent Brown trade. If Lynch drafts QW he HAS to account for Thomas disappointing after 2 seasons imo. If we draft QW and go into the season with Thomas, QW, Buck, AA all on the team i'd be pretty frustrated unless they hit a slam dunk in some other way for effective edge rush, and plenty of it.

With that lineup, they could try moving everyone around to create different looks.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Boy you're so dead set on calling me out with Thomas huh? That's like your mission in here I guess....I simply don't think Adams is some game changing S. He's good, but I like my safeties to get turnovers ( I also wanted to keep Reid) also you damn well know the pro-bowl is a popularly contest. I did like Hooker, but again show me all the FS drafted top 3 in the history of the NFL. He had his warts just as well and injuries were a thing with him (and still are). In a bigger trade down I would have been cool with it.

Armstead was trash and at that point offered nothing in 3 yrs, he couldn't even stay on the field. He wasn't part of this FO and IMO is a better 3-4 DE (I still stand by that). Thomas was regarded as a top 5 talent, was he not?? Go look at analysts' big boards all over the place and mock drafts from that yr...he was tops as a run defender and graded out as a top 6 interior pass rusher his senior yr. Stop acting like he sucked in college.

IF you told me the plan was to make him an edge rusher for over a yr in a half, then yup I'd say he wasn't gonna be successful. He's had 5 solid games to play the position that made him a top 5 prospect and holy s**t players around him are doing better and he damn well was a big part of that Seattle win. IF you don't have patience with a player or think they can improve that's your business

FWIW I ate a big pile crow on Mahomes...I didn't believe he was a day 1 starter based on his lack of knowledge in a pro offense ( I still stand by that as well), he went to the perfect situation.

You just continue to dodge my question. Was Thomas the BPA at a position of need?


How was big end without the ability to passrush plus a 2 down 3tech our biggest need?! We had no corners or FS at all at that point.

You keep downplaying AA yet he had more sacks and qb hits per game than Thomas has. AA was much more raw as well and Thomas was supposed to be a plug and play player. Don't give me the Thomas played outside hes had plenty of inside snaps and hes produced one sack this year... one. I believe that lone sack of his was a cleanup sack as well. The bigger impact wasn't going from AA to ST it was going from Mitchell to Jones. Not to mention we started playing worse offenses down the stretch. It's a joke you're claiming Thomas is the reason the whole defense is better acting like he is Justin Smith. He forced one double team you act like he is the cowboy it's embarrassing.

I like your posts but I think you're being hypocritical with this whole Thomas thing and it's now influencing your ability to think about this draft because you want to be proven right.

My main point: Passing on Quinnen Williams because he's not a need contradicts your thought that Thomas was a position of need with AA already on the team. You can't claim that AA did nothing so we needed an interior rusher than say Thomas has done something when the film and stats say AA was better first two years. It's deja vu all over again with Thomas in year two yet you're not ready to give up on him like you were AA.

One sack and you keep claiming he's an interior rusher. IDGAF if he played SS he should have more than one sack come on!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

That's bull, AA (when healthy) had shown every bit as much as Solomon, people (not me) had argued that Buck & AA meant you shouldn't draft Solly, you argued (really strongly) that he was so disruptive he needed to be picked. Well he hasn't been, and Quinnen is. We must trade, but the trade could be moving Solly or AA.

Oh please...AA didn't do s**t for 3 yrs dude played in 16 games over the course of two seasons and when he did play, he did exactly what he did in college plug holes and run defend. pass rush was never there, same as in college. Throw in we were coming off a historically bad yr vs the run grabbing th best interior run defender in college football made some sense...The only person arguing that AA to was good was SY and he flip flopped about 100xs

Yeah I argued that he should be an interior rusher, even Shaw stated that's where he should play. Imo he was a better prospect then our 3rd yr injury prone raw DT in AA & like I said we didn't have any young talent outside of Buck

But he got thrown into a horrible position for most of his nfl career playing on the outside. Dude is 285lbs with shorter arms and a tight hips and you want him to beat tackles all day lol? What the f**k!? That's not Thomas' fault for failing out there and you know it.

You act like I was the only person in the whole world that said he was a top 5 talent in that draft, which is a bunch of horse s**t.

For starters it was only 2 years, AA racked up some really good pressures, took on double teams but was not productive, sound like anyone? Only real difference is injuries.

The arguments for drafting Q are exactly the same as your arguments for drafting Solly two years ago.

Look, I don't want another interior lineman, but I'm not ignoring value for the sake of Solomon Thomas, he simply hasn't earned that type of loyalty.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

For starters it was only 2 years, AA racked up some really good pressures, took on double teams but was not productive, sound like anyone? Only real difference is injuries.

The arguments for drafting Q are exactly the same as your arguments for drafting Solly two years ago.

Look, I don't want another interior lineman, but I'm not ignoring value for the sake of Solomon Thomas, he simply hasn't earned that type of loyalty.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

For starters it was only 2 years, AA racked up some really good pressures, took on double teams but was not productive, sound like anyone? Only real difference is injuries.

The arguments for drafting Q are exactly the same as your arguments for drafting Solly two years ago.

Look, I don't want another interior lineman, but I'm not ignoring value for the sake of Solomon Thomas, he simply hasn't earned that type of loyalty.

I didn't want Solly two years ago. He was redundant to AA as QW will be to them. Hey if it only takes us 5 years to fill up two positions that only leaves 21 more to go.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

I didn't want Solly two years ago. He was redundant to AA as QW will be to them. Hey if it only takes us 5 years to fill up two positions that only leaves 21 more to go.

We're not trying to fill up any positions, we're trying to out the best team we possibly can on the field.

You take a position off your draft board when you're set, QB & FB gone, 1st string TE, gone, RB close to gone. All over positions are on the table.

When you have an obvious deficiency (Edge Rush, Safety) that position gets a bump, but you can't just turn down studs for average players, gets you nowhere.