Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama

Originally posted by theduke85:

This is looking way too far into the future. Shelf life in the NFL is very short. What are the chances that Buckner and QW are both dominant players in 2025 (QW will be under contract through 2024, including his fifth-year option)?

Go and look at the 2013 49ers roster. I'm pretty sure there isn't a single remaining player on the team today from the 2013 roster (I could be wrong, just scanned the roster quickly). Worrying about contract logistics that far into the future is putting the cart wayyy before the horse.

Unless both of them are being paid a huge money, it's not really an issue. Our focus should be "we have two potential wrecking ball interior linemen" because that's what's relevant now... being apprehensive about contracts is being so far in the forest that you we see the trees.

Obviously a team should always have long-term interests in mind, but contract problems in 2025 are fringe considerations, not ones that dictate 2019 draft decisions.

Forest and trees analogy spot on. Investments need to be made at premium positions, corner, safety, MLB, and IDL is a part of that of course. What your missing is, when you can upgrade the interior with QW on 5 year rookie deal, you don't extend a 100m+ contract to a player who is 2nd best in the same spot. Haven't even cosidered contracts for OT, Staley is a steal right now, WR, Kittle on and on. If lynch drafts QW, there is no extending Buckner, it just can't happen. So the time is ripe now to flip him for the biggest return.

Originally posted by bopicksix:
Forest and trees analogy spot on. Investments need to be made at premium positions, corner, safety, MLB, and IDL is a part of that of course. What your missing is, when you can upgrade the interior with QW on 5 year rookie deal, you don't extend a 100m+ contract to a player who is 2nd best in the same spot. Haven't even cosidered contracts for OT, Staley is a steal right now, WR, Kittle on and on. If lynch drafts QW, there is no extending Buckner, it just can't happen. So the time is ripe now to flip him for the biggest return.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. This position is more defensible. I thought you were saying the team couldn't justify paying both QW and Buckner simultaneously on huge contracts.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 4ML:

seems like Cards will pick between Q and Bosa.

Or Murray.

And, if Kingsbury by chance has decided on Rosen, who just needs a great QB coach, then he can offload that #1 pick to Gruden and get a pair of 1s, with luck a pair of 2s, maybe a 3rd,....a six pack or close is in the mix here, as this IS the #1 pick, a potential ELITE QB is in play, and the Draft calculator is turned off for these kind of deals. Then at #4, they get Q, who is really who they needed on LOS, plus another 1st rd pick , maybe a pair of 2s. Just depends on exactly how much Gruden agrees to get squeezed.

And if that should happen, whether kingsbury takes Murray or trades with Gruden, and lightens the RAIDS high picks by a bunch....we get Bosa.

It just seems hard to believe after AZ's GM hacking off their best coach in yrs, by not taking Mahommes, and then losing Arians, that AZ GM would take Bosa, when they need Interior DLs, not DEs. They have a good one already. But if kingsbury is iffy on murray, he will lreally score on a trade with the RAIDS and still get the guy they need, Q. I don't think Rosen has been coached well yet, and kingsbury was Mahommes coach.

There I think it was QB talent not the college coach, but AZ GM thinks otherwise. Right now i am guessing he is 60/40 going for murray, but can't get the "six pack " out of his mind, especially if he thinks he can coach up Rosen. If he doesn't, then he takes murray.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 4ML:
seems like Cards will pick between Q and Bosa.

Murray will be going #1 not sure how people still don't get this

I think if Raiders don't offer a godfather offer to Cardinals - Cardinals will just stay at 1 and pick between Q and Bosa.

At least that is what's being reported by their local beat reporter. I think they hyped up Murray at no. 1 to get a massive offer. So far, Raiders have not bought it and I can see Raiders feeling that they can get Murray by trading to no. 2 or 3 as well because if Cardinals were in complete awe of Murray - they wouldn't be dangling the no. 1 pick to someone who wants Murray as well.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
And, if Kingsbury by chance has decided on Rosen, who just needs a great QB coach, then he can offload that #1 pick to Gruden and get a pair of 1s, with luck a pair of 2s, maybe a 3rd,....a six pack or close is in the mix here, as this IS the #1 pick, a potential ELITE QB is in play, and the Draft calculator is turned off for these kind of deals. Then at #4, they get Q, who is really who they needed on LOS, plus another 1st rd pick , maybe a pair of 2s. Just depends on exactly how much Gruden agrees to get squeezed.

And if that should happen, whether kingsbury takes Murray or trades with Gruden, and lightens the RAIDS high picks by a bunch....we get Bosa.

It just seems hard to believe after AZ's GM hacking off their best coach in yrs, by not taking Mahommes, and then losing Arians, that AZ GM would take Bosa, when they need Interior DLs, not DEs. They have a good one already. But if kingsbury is iffy on murray, he will lreally score on a trade with the RAIDS and still get the guy they need, Q. I don't think Rosen has been coached well yet, and kingsbury was Mahommes coach.

There I think it was QB talent not the college coach, but AZ GM thinks otherwise. Right now i am guessing he is 60/40 going for murray, but can't get the "six pack " out of his mind, especially if he thinks he can coach up Rosen. If he doesn't, then he takes murray.

...and what if Raiders aren't willing to offer anywhere close to that?

What if Raiders feel - we can make the deal with Niners or Jets at no. 2 or 3. It has been rumored that Giants like Haskins anyway - so they wouldn't trade up for Murray. What if, Raiders really don't feel like they need to go to no.1 pick to get Murray.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 4ML:
seems like Cards will pick between Q and Bosa.

Or Murray.

Naah...I think Murray was just a ploy to get a big offer for no.1 pick. It doesn't look like it has worked so far. Still time left though...

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 4ML:

seems like Cards will pick between Q and Bosa.

Or Murray.

Naah...I think Murray was just a ploy to get a big offer for no.1 pick. It doesn't look like it has worked so far. Still time left though...

The Cardinals are morons if they pass on Murray. No other player gives them a chance to really become relevant. Trading Rosen also gives them more picks to add to their depth or lack there of.

Allen is my favorite but williams is a nice consolation prize.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 4ML:
seems like Cards will pick between Q and Bosa.

Or Murray.

Naah...I think Murray was just a ploy to get a big offer for no.1 pick. It doesn't look like it has worked so far. Still time left though...

The Cardinals are morons if they pass on Murray. No other player gives them a chance to really become relevant. Trading Rosen also gives them more picks to add to their depth or lack there of.

Depends on how they internally feel about Rosen. They can feel that Rosen will be great in the new system as well and we can add a dominant defensive player next to Chandler Jones.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 4ML:

seems like Cards will pick between Q and Bosa.

Or Murray.

Naah...I think Murray was just a ploy to get a big offer for no.1 pick. It doesn't look like it has worked so far. Still time left though...

That's what i thot early on, just chumming for bait...er, Gruden. But the longer this goes the more i wonder about kingsbury. It all boils down to how kingsbury likes Rosen. IF he thinks he just needs a good QB coach, then they stay put, and Murray is there for them to acquire riches. i know Gruden has to be feeling heat, as they were dreadful this yr. Your question is a good one and depends on how much Kingsbury and Gruden each like murray. And that we have to wait on.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
That's what i thot early on, just chumming for bait...er, Gruden. But the longer this goes the more i wonder about kingsbury. It all boils down to how kingsbury likes Rosen. IF he thinks he just needs a good QB coach, then they stay put, and Murray is there for them to acquire riches. i know Gruden has to be feeling heat, as they were dreadful this yr. Your question is a good one and depends on how much Kingsbury and Gruden each like murray. And that we have to wait on.

I'm still learning about the air raid offense so I'll leave it to the experts to correct me if I'm wrong, but it's based loosely around the WCO, but simplified for college level. In Kingsbury's offense, a guy like Rosen who's not very mobile and doesn't have that rocket launcher that Murray has, is less valuable than a very mobile QB with a Rocket Launcher of an arm. We all remember Joe and Steve being very mobile and using their legs and getting first downs when the defense was in nickel or dime defense. And so, if I'm Kingsbury and comparing Rosen to Murray's skill set in a basic Air Raid scheme - hands down Murray's skill set is worth a lot of draft capital. Secondly, Rosen didn't impress the front office either last year - and I think that includes the GM that drafted him too.

Originally posted by 4ML:

I think if Raiders don't offer a godfather offer to Cardinals - Cardinals will just stay at 1 and pick between Q and Bosa.

At least that is what's being reported by their local beat reporter. I think they hyped up Murray at no. 1 to get a massive offer. So far, Raiders have not bought it and I can see Raiders feeling that they can get Murray by trading to no. 2 or 3 as well because if Cardinals were in complete awe of Murray - they wouldn't be dangling the no. 1 pick to someone who wants Murray as well.

Only beat report I'm seeing that is saying Murray isn't a strong possibility is some dude with 6.5k followers and he said its a "hunch" nothing more.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Depends on how they internally feel about Rosen. They can feel that Rosen will be great in the new system as well and we can add a dominant defensive player next to Chandler Jones.

Kliff likes to play 11 on 11 football...he wants his qb to be able to be a threat in the running game.

There's been reports tha Rosen has rubbed people the wrong way in the locker room and the fact that he hasn't even been around the team...

Behind all of this is the worst-kept secret in media: Rosen was never fired up about moving to and living in Arizona, from the moment he was drafted until now. From what we've heard, we don't believe those feelings have manifested themselves in his attitude or work ethic in season - Kingsbury praised his toughness and resiliency in the face of adversity on the field many times in his Combine presser - but now that the season is over, Rosen's attention has turned to a bevy of offseason activities that don't necessarily incorporate copious amounts of football into his routine.

They need to put asses in the seats...

Owner Michael Bidwill likes him a lot, and especially likes the idea that Murray's exhilarating style of play will put fans back in the seats, something that was an issue last year as a losing campaign endured

Still, one motivation has trumped all. There is increasing pressure from ownership in Arizona to make a move that will be perceived as a splash, even to the point of rendering null their first round franchise quarterback from a year ago. It is no secret that Bidwill has always been a very hands-on owner, and this situation has brought that into focus more than ever before. It's not fair to say Arizona's decision-makers are divided on the prospect of drafting Murray, but Bidwill has been a late-driving force behind their interest in the Oklahoma quarterback. Still, nothing has been set in stone just yet, so here we are, waiting for a trade that seems to be becoming more inevitable by the day.

QW is a true game changer, I think it will be hard for us to pass on him #2 overall.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

QW is a true game changer, I think it will be hard for us to pass on him #2 overall.

But his 3-cone