Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Also post combine many had him go to the Cardinals? Not sure what's the point there.

If you follow the draft every year QBs get more and more hyped up no matter where they should really go. Teams without a QB will pay high prices to trade up for the one they think can be a franchise QB.

All Kyler Murray did was probably have the greatest single season any college player has ever had while going on to win the Heisman. If you don't think teams would trade up for that I don't think you been paying attention to recent drafts.

I think it's very very unlikely Murray switches to baseball. He would have to wait years in a farm system and then there still is maybe a 50-50 chance he actually gets a good baseball contract. Those aren't great odds. Not to mention I believe, like most people, football is just more fun to play... especially if you can play QB for an NFL team.

There's no reason to believe we wouldn't get a huge haul for Kyler Murray.

Since Arizona has the 1st pick they already likely know what offers are coming in for Murray. Their phone line is open. It really doesn't make sense that Murray falls to 2 and then all the sudden a team calls in with a boat load of picks.

All you have to know is if Murray is their guy... he will be the pick. Teams know that and they will call their bluff. They know if the Cardinals want Murray they won't realistically trade down for anything besides some insane offer.

So if the Cardinals are really trying to trade down then that means he's not their guy. You don't risk the future of your QB position for an extra 3rd round pick during negotiations. You just don't do that knowing you have a franchise QB that fits your new head coach, that helps your offensive line tremendously, and had the greatest single season of any player in college history. That's why I believe the 49ers are in the drivers seat to trade down, if Murray isn't the pick.

But since I do think the Cardinals aren't trading down and will draft Murray. Teams will call the Jets and most likely they will be the ones trading down. There are already reports that the Jets are poised to do that.

Also, not all teams view Murray as the best QB in the draft / best QB for their offense (media hyped the s**t out of Murray). Giants got a woody for Haskins and some other team is prolly falling in love with Lock...

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

All you have to know is if Murray is their guy... he will be the pick. Teams know that and they will call their bluff. They know if the Cardinals want Murray they won't realistically trade down for anything besides some insane offer.

So if the Cardinals are really trying to trade down then that means he's not their guy. You don't risk the future of your QB position for an extra 3rd round pick during negotiations. You just don't do that knowing you have a franchise QB that fits your new head coach, that helps your offensive line tremendously, and had the greatest single season of any player in college history. That's why I believe the 49ers are in the drivers seat to trade down, if Murray isn't the pick.

But since I do think the Cardinals aren't trading down and will draft Murray. Teams will call the Jets and most likely they will be the ones trading down. There are already reports that the Jets are poised to do that.

Some of this I agree with but I don't see how it gets into your point that Arz will take Murray in fear we'll trade down with a boat load of picks. We're in the exact same boat as them. If Arz can't find the boat load of picks for Murray neither can we. Oakland is the team to jump and that makes the Jets the least value trading spot. If a team is willing to give up the mega haul for Murray they'll call Arz.

Cause I'm saying the bidding starts with us and not them.

You're right in the sense the Cardinals would field the same offer or better than us if they traded down. But like I said teams will call their bluff because he's either their guy or he's not. If he's not, why give up more picks when you can trade with us?

Right now the trade point of the draft is with the Jets because of Haskins. As soon as the Cardinals show they want to trade down the trade point moves to us with Murray and Haskins available.

You just don't make decisions based off of a few picks with the direction of your QB position. I know the Cardinals are dumb but they can't be that dumb. If he's their guy they won't seriously think about trading down for any offer.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Cause I'm saying the bidding starts with us and not them.

You're right in the sense the Cardinals would field the same offer or better than us if they traded down. But like I said teams will call their bluff because he's either their guy or he's not. If he's not, why give up more picks when you can trade with us?

Right now the trade point of the draft is with the Jets because of Haskins. As soon as the Cardinals show they want to trade down the trade point moves to us with Murray and Haskins available.

You just don't make decisions based off of a few picks with the direction of your QB position. I know the Cardinals are dumb but they can't be that dumb. If he's their guy they won't seriously think about trading down for any offer.

Your argument applies to us too. Why trade with us when we're not taking him and neither are the Jets. Oakland is the team to jump so if teams are looking to land Murray but don't want to depart with the draft capital they're going to let Q and Bosa get off the board then call NY with a offer.

If there is a bidding war for him Arz is in the perfect spot to land him. The scenario that a team is willing to give up primo picks for him but only at 2 not at 1 really only happens if Arizona says we'd rather take Q/ Bosa or if the Jets aren't fielding calls because they love say Allen. Remember Arz doesn't have to go by the draft value chart too and will have a pretty good idea what teams are offering.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Cause I'm saying the bidding starts with us and not them.

You're right in the sense the Cardinals would field the same offer or better than us if they traded down. But like I said teams will call their bluff because he's either their guy or he's not. If he's not, why give up more picks when you can trade with us?

Right now the trade point of the draft is with the Jets because of Haskins. As soon as the Cardinals show they want to trade down the trade point moves to us with Murray and Haskins available.

You just don't make decisions based off of a few picks with the direction of your QB position. I know the Cardinals are dumb but they can't be that dumb. If he's their guy they won't seriously think about trading down for any offer.

This assumes only one team wants KM. If more than one team is showing interest to move up a bidding war can emerge and you could end up paying the same price it would cost to go to 1. Also one team loses out in a bidding war, and may end up wishing they had just went above us and secured their guy as opposed to taking the risk of just moving up to 1.

Also, what is to say we won't want the cost of moving to 1 for a team to move up to our pick? Perhaps we won't have real interest in moving back barring a massive overpay as we could be set on taking QW/Bosa short of said overpayment.

Originally posted by 4ML:

It has become draft fact that the Arizona Cardinals will select Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick and just figure things out later when it comes to how they'll handle Josh Rosen and possibly trading the quarterback they took with a top-10 pick last year.

Not so fast my friends. CBS Sports Senior NFL Writer Pete Prisco joined me on the Pick Six Podcast Friday and told me the latest buzz out of Arizona has the Cardinals going in a different direction with the first-overall pick.

"I'm starting to get more and more feeling from around people in the know that I don't think it's going to be Murray No. 1 overall," Prisco said.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/pick-six-podcast-why-cardinals-are-moving-away-from-taking-kyler-murray-no-1-overall-might-go-with-surprising-choice/

-----------------

...but the real question is - does Prisco have enough followers? lol

Lol if this doesn't sound like a ploy to push up the trade value for Rosen then I don't know what is

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 4ML:

It has become draft fact that the Arizona Cardinals will select Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick and just figure things out later when it comes to how they'll handle Josh Rosen and possibly trading the quarterback they took with a top-10 pick last year.

Not so fast my friends. CBS Sports Senior NFL Writer Pete Prisco joined me on the Pick Six Podcast Friday and told me the latest buzz out of Arizona has the Cardinals going in a different direction with the first-overall pick.

"I'm starting to get more and more feeling from around people in the know that I don't think it's going to be Murray No. 1 overall," Prisco said.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/pick-six-podcast-why-cardinals-are-moving-away-from-taking-kyler-murray-no-1-overall-might-go-with-surprising-choice/

-----------------

...but the real question is - does Prisco have enough followers? lol

There's no doubt in my mind that the Cardinals will take Murray. Why would the Cardinals give us the chance to trade down for a massive haul like the Rams got years back. That would sway the division forever, certainly if their worried about us getting Bosa wouldn't getting multiple first round picks be worse?

Not to mention Bosa isn't even a great fit for a 3-4. If Allen and Bosa are as close as some people say, wouldn't Allen with his coverage ability be the better pick for them? Or even QW?

All I know is that Bosa should make it to our pick.

Dang, great point Waterbear, "Why should AZ let us be the one to load up on picks? " Hadn't ever thot of that. There are some really good football minds in this thread and a bunch of it has been in these last few pages. Giedi is right, that if Kingsbury really likes a guy who can run and gun, then murray is his guy.

Sorry forgot now who added that if AZ doesn't take murray, Bosa doesn't fit their 3-4, so Allen would fit a lot better. And Q would fit extremely well. There is no There there in AZ land in the middle of the DL. They got their ER, just no interiors.

As an aside, damn shame we got all those interiors and can't trade any of them to AZ. Any one of 4 or 5 of them would start on the interior. We have to trade elsewhere. Cutting some of our interior DTs May have to be done this yr as there are way more than we need, plus we need room at other slots and DTs are taking up my 6, 7, or 8 slots depending on who you count.

So i ahve gone from AZ just chumming for bait, to Murray is a lock to go there, to 'Daaaaaaym, wonder where murray will end up?'

Kinda funny really but what a great thread exchange here last several pages. We have some really sharp guys on the WZ, and recent posts just prove it. A lot of really good projected thinking and why. That's exactly what makes this place so special.

PHX is the guy i really would like to hear out, altho he has already posted an number of times. But he is close to AZ football as it gets, so hope you add in your thots. Lots of folks are changing their minds depending on news of the day...or facts of the day. This goes down to the wire, unless AZ did something stupid like make an official announcement , but no way in He** are they going to do something like that.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Why wouldn't they trade down if there was a massive haul to be had?

Maybe AZ is looking for something outrageous and maybe SF would be more than fine taking one of Oakland's extra 1sts and a future pick

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Cause I'm saying the bidding starts with us and not them.

You're right in the sense the Cardinals would field the same offer or better than us if they traded down. But like I said teams will call their bluff because he's either their guy or he's not. If he's not, why give up more picks when you can trade with us?

Right now the trade point of the draft is with the Jets because of Haskins. As soon as the Cardinals show they want to trade down the trade point moves to us with Murray and Haskins available.

You just don't make decisions based off of a few picks with the direction of your QB position. I know the Cardinals are dumb but they can't be that dumb. If he's their guy they won't seriously think about trading down for any offer.

This assumes only one team wants KM. If more than one team is showing interest to move up a bidding war can emerge and you could end up paying the same price it would cost to go to 1. Also one team loses out in a bidding war, and may end up wishing they had just went above us and secured their guy as opposed to taking the risk of just moving up to 1.

Also, what is to say we won't want the cost of moving to 1 for a team to move up to our pick? Perhaps we won't have real interest in moving back barring a massive overpay as we could be set on taking QW/Bosa short of said overpayment.

IMO Arizona and the Raiders are the only teams in the top 10 I think would be interested in KM. If there is another I would like to know.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Since Arizona has the 1st pick they already likely know what offers are coming in for Murray. Their phone line is open. It really doesn't make sense that Murray falls to 2 and then all the sudden a team calls in with a boat load of picks.

Depends what teams are offering them and what they'd be willing to move for...SF might be willing to move down for less a lot less

I could live with 4, 27 and a future pick. They could still end up with QW at 4.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Why wouldn't they trade down if there was a massive haul to be had?

Maybe AZ is looking for something outrageous and maybe SF would be more than fine taking one of Oakland's extra 1sts and a future pick

If AZ really wants Murray, then that is like us wanting Bosa. No matter the offer, it isn't worth it if both clubs feel each has his man.

Originally posted by Oilcan:

IMO Arizona and the Raiders are the only teams in the top 10 I think would be interested in KM. If there is another I would like to know.

I subscribe to the theory that Oakland has no interest in KM or any QB. They are creating that illusion and assuming like most everyone KM goes 1 and hope to create a trade market at 2/3 to get in front of them pushing one of QW/Bosa to them at 4.

Originally posted by Oilcan:

IMO Arizona and the Raiders are the only teams in the top 10 I think would be interested in KM. If there is another I would like to know.

I could see NY being interested. He'd fit shurmur's scheme like a glove.

Cinci comes to mind as well, really any blah team that wants to make a splash play and doesn't have a FQB.

AZ is still gonna take him one

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Depends what teams are offering them and what they'd be willing to move for...SF might be willing to move down for less a lot less

I could live with 4, 27 and a future pick. They could still end up with QW at 4.

His point was Arz will take Murray in fear we'll get the mega haul. Now I can agree there's scenarios where we can get a trade down for an ok package that Arz passed on. But if there was a mega haul to be had Arz will jump on it was my point.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

If AZ really wants Murray, then that is like us wanting Bosa. No matter the offer, it isn't worth it if both clubs feel each has his man.

I mean SF better not pull a gettleman and shut the phones off when they drafted Barkley. You should always listen to offers. I like Bosa but if someone is throwing out something outrageous you take it.

End of the day I think AZ already has Murray pegged in as the pick and anything else being thrown out (which is leaked by them) right now is to try to get more for Rosen.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

His point was Arz will take Murray in fear we'll get the mega haul. Now I can agree there's scenarios where we can get a trade down for an ok package that Arz passed on. But if there was a mega haul to be had Arz will jump on it was my point.

No doubt agreed.