Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Cause I'm saying the bidding starts with us and not them.

You're right in the sense the Cardinals would field the same offer or better than us if they traded down. But like I said teams will call their bluff because he's either their guy or he's not. If he's not, why give up more picks when you can trade with us?

Right now the trade point of the draft is with the Jets because of Haskins. As soon as the Cardinals show they want to trade down the trade point moves to us with Murray and Haskins available.

You just don't make decisions based off of a few picks with the direction of your QB position. I know the Cardinals are dumb but they can't be that dumb. If he's their guy they won't seriously think about trading down for any offer.

Your argument applies to us too. Why trade with us when we're not taking him and neither are the Jets. Oakland is the team to jump so if teams are looking to land Murray but don't want to depart with the draft capital they're going to let Q and Bosa get off the board then call NY with a offer.

If there is a bidding war for him Arz is in the perfect spot to land him. The scenario that a team is willing to give up primo picks for him but only at 2 not at 1 really only happens if Arizona says we'd rather take Q/ Bosa or if the Jets aren't fielding calls because they love say Allen. Remember Arz doesn't have to go by the draft value chart too and will have a pretty good idea what teams are offering.

I'm not saying it's impossible that someone would trade down with the Cardinals. I just believe we are in the drivers seat based off the fact that's he's either their guy or he's not. It's not about if the team would draft him or not, teams have traded up with teams who obviously wouldn't select the player they are trading up for.

If the Cardinals were at 2 and we were picking first overall (with jimmy G not on the team), I would certainly think teams would be calling the Cardinals to trade up and not us. Add in the fact that you're more likely giving up more to trade up to one, I think teams would rather let the Cardinals choose QW or Bosa first. I just don't think you can put a value on a franchise QB. Realistically, is there a price that the Chiefs would take to trade Mahomes? I don't think so.

So I get what you're saying and I know technically they could trade with the Cardinals at 1 over us, I just don't see that happening this time... in this draft specifically.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Depends what teams are offering them and what they'd be willing to move for...SF might be willing to move down for less a lot less

I could live with 4, 27 and a future pick. They could still end up with QW at 4.

His point was Arz will take Murray in fear we'll get the mega haul. Now I can agree there's scenarios where we can get a trade down for an ok package that Arz passed on. But if there was a mega haul to be had Arz will jump on it was my point.

Like I said I think it's based on teams won't trade up to 1 overall knowing Murray isn't their guy. But hey I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 4ML:
It has become draft fact that the Arizona Cardinals will select Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick and just figure things out later when it comes to how they'll handle Josh Rosen and possibly trading the quarterback they took with a top-10 pick last year.

Not so fast my friends. CBS Sports Senior NFL Writer Pete Prisco joined me on the Pick Six Podcast Friday and told me the latest buzz out of Arizona has the Cardinals going in a different direction with the first-overall pick.

"I'm starting to get more and more feeling from around people in the know that I don't think it's going to be Murray No. 1 overall," Prisco said.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/pick-six-podcast-why-cardinals-are-moving-away-from-taking-kyler-murray-no-1-overall-might-go-with-surprising-choice/

-----------------

...but the real question is - does Prisco have enough followers? lol

Lol if this doesn't sound like a ploy to push up the trade value for Rosen then I don't know what is

Not sure what you're seeing here. If a team wasn't enamored by Rosen till now, don't think Arizona partly wanting to keep him will sway them.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
There's no doubt in my mind that the Cardinals will take Murray. Why would the Cardinals give us the chance to trade down for a massive haul like the Rams got years back.

After the combine many had him around 13th to the Dolphins.

Just wondering what has changed since then to where he is worth a massive haul??

He could still get bored after a couple years and go back to baseball.

Also post combine many had him go to the Cardinals?

You didn't finish that sentence for the Cardinals tho. "...many had him go to the Cardinals because the new coach's former fondness with Murray added to the fact that he's never coached Rosen there, and the offense he ran @ Texas Tech,... so the organization could get away with hinting at Murray."

His value was somewhat assured because of the combine,...but not heavily inflated because of Mock Drafts to the Cards. Please don't confuse the 2,...a Mock draft is simply guessing what teams will do, not at all evaluation rankings.

Not sure what's the point there.

No point aside from the above,...just a question. When did he become worth a bunch of picks? It's possible he could've crept up to #1, but I haven't heard much to suggest he's worth a litany of picks.

If you follow the draft every year QBs get more and more hyped up no matter where they should really go. Teams without a QB will pay high prices to trade up for the one they think can be a franchise QB.

All Kyler Murray did was probably have the greatest single season any college player has ever had while going on to win the Heisman. If you don't think teams would trade up for that I don't think you been paying attention to recent drafts.

They love what he's done,...which is why he's skyrocketed up to a pretty much assured 1st round pick. We can't ignore the question marks though (height, pro-style offense conversion, another sport) and act like everyone's fighting to get him. If people have heard such, I'd like to know...

There's no reason to believe we wouldn't get a huge haul for Kyler Murray.

I have plenty of reasons to doubt that,...but huge haul like what for example??

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Your argument applies to us too. Why trade with us when we're not taking him and neither are the Jets. Oakland is the team to jump so if teams are looking to land Murray but don't want to depart with the draft capital they're going to let Q and Bosa get off the board then call NY with a offer.

If there is a bidding war for him Arz is in the perfect spot to land him. The scenario that a team is willing to give up primo picks for him but only at 2 not at 1 really only happens if Arizona says we'd rather take Q/ Bosa or if the Jets aren't fielding calls because they love say Allen. Remember Arz doesn't have to go by the draft value chart too and will have a pretty good idea what teams are offering.

In a nutshell

Until Rosen isn't a Cardinal I believe nothing about Murray. They have to trade him before the draft otherwise they take Murray and then they have 0 leverage and won't get as high an offer for Rosen.

Originally posted by random49er:

You didn't finish that sentence for the Cardinals tho. "...many had him go to the Cardinals because the new coach's former fondness with Murray added to the fact that he's never coached Rosen there, and the offense he ran @ Texas Tech,... so the organization could get away with hinting at Murray."

His value was somewhat assured because of the combine,...but not heavily inflated because of Mock Drafts to the Cards. Please don't confuse the 2,...a Mock draft is simply guessing what teams will do, not at all evaluation rankings.

Not sure what's the point there.

No point aside from the above,...just a question. When did he become worth a bunch of picks? It's possible he could've crept up to #1, but I haven't heard much to suggest he's worth a litany of picks.

If you follow the draft every year QBs get more and more hyped up no matter where they should really go. Teams without a QB will pay high prices to trade up for the one they think can be a franchise QB.

All Kyler Murray did was probably have the greatest single season any college player has ever had while going on to win the Heisman. If you don't think teams would trade up for that I don't think you been paying attention to recent drafts.

They love what he's done,...which is why he's skyrocketed up to a pretty much assured 1st round pick. We can't ignore the question marks though (height, pro-style offense conversion, another sport) and act like everyone's fighting to get him. If people have heard such, I'd like to know...

There's no reason to believe we wouldn't get a huge haul for Kyler Murray.

I have plenty of reasons to doubt that,...but huge haul like what for example??

Moving my answer to Murray thread if you would like to continue.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Why wouldn't they trade down if there was a massive haul to be had?

Maybe AZ is looking for something outrageous and maybe SF would be more than fine taking one of Oakland's extra 1sts and a future pick

If AZ really wants Murray, then that is like us wanting Bosa. No matter the offer, it isn't worth it if both clubs feel each has his man.

I think that worth/price is what every war room is working on right now.
For once-in-a-decade talents, little or no extra work is required.
For everyone else, I'm sure they are weighing the difference between players on their board and the cost of that difference in picks.
If OAK really wants Bosa at #2, maybe SF is comfortable taking QW, Gary, Sweat, or Burns, while picking up another pick or two.
But, if they think Gary, Sweat, and Burns aren't worth the extra WR or OL, then they just play their board.

Originally posted by Ark49er:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
QW is a true game changer, I think it will be hard for us to pass on him #2 overall.

I was listening to the greatb Willie Mcginest the other day talk about what the 49ers should do. He said draft Quinnen Williams to pair with Buckner and dominate the line of scrimmage every single snap. The Greek looking guy on NFL network brought up the 49ers have drafted DL in the 1st round three out of four years. Willie smiled and and looked at him, "you do it again!"

Typical linebacker mentality. A strong DT corps makes the LB's job easier, but John knows a good edge rusher makes the DB's job easier. Personally, with John's background as a DB/SS - he'll probably lean towards drafting an edge rusher if all things are even. In QW and Bosa's case - as the draft experts here say, they are almost dead even.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

If AZ really wants Murray, then that is like us wanting Bosa. No matter the offer, it isn't worth it if both clubs feel each has his man.

I mean SF better not pull a gettleman and shut the phones off when they drafted Barkley. You should always listen to offers. I like Bosa but if someone is throwing out something outrageous you take it.

End of the day I think AZ already has Murray pegged in as the pick and anything else being thrown out (which is leaked by them) right now is to try to get more for Rosen.

Huh...another interesting angle, NY

If one were a conspiracy theorist, he would have a lot of fun with this thread

Originally posted by 4ML:

Not sure what you're seeing here. If a team wasn't enamored by Rosen till now, don't think Arizona partly wanting to keep him will sway them.

I'm saying they already know they're taking Murray @ #1...they're getting their splashy FQB to go along with their splashy HC hire...they'll be relevant in the media and in the NFL after this. Fans will buy Murray jerseys (currently you can get a Rosen AZ jersey on discount ) espn/NFLN and Twitter will be in a Murray frenzy all yr.

NOW they're doing whatever it takes to push up Rosen's value...theres reportedly offers on the table for him, they want more....we're talking about QBs here, Rosen could change a franchise (in the right situation) those teams are seeing AZ has to move him, so they're low balling.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Until Rosen isn't a Cardinal I believe nothing about Murray. They have to trade him before the draft otherwise they take Murray and then they have 0 leverage and won't get as high an offer for Rosen.

Murray will be drafted before Rosen is moved imo.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Until Rosen isn't a Cardinal I believe nothing about Murray. They have to trade him before the draft otherwise they take Murray and then they have 0 leverage and won't get as high an offer for Rosen.

Murray will be drafted before Rosen is moved imo.

Wow...why?

Just watched the Georgia, Oklahoma, Clemson games (not all22 sorry guys) he starts off so f**king good, Jonah called it by saying he's a 290lb bar of soap.....but by the second half you can see him get a little lazy with pad level and the lack of conditioning kinda showed itself.

I know it's his first yr as a starter (and at DT). He's gonna have to build up more strength and muscle to play like he did this yr in the NFL. I don't buy the whole he's fat stuff, dude might have a harder time keeping the weight on vs being overweight imo.

He is my #1A prospect, he's not Donald and I stand by my Gerald McCoy comp.

Originally posted by random49er:

Wow...why?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/29/if-josh-rosen-is-traded-when-will-it-happen/