Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by rathman4481:

So it's safe to assume Q is a future all pro but bosa has maxed out already.


OKAY

Who said that? Its pretty reasonable to believe that a guy with only one year of starting experience and the sort of athleticism that he possesses still has quite a bit more possible improvement to take.


Bosa is closer to being a finished product than Williams, that is all.

But that logic is being portrayed as a negative about Bosa lol you know I love QW, but I don't get the Bosa hate around here. He's an phenomenal prospect. Lucky for me I'll be happy with either one

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Ian Rapoport: I would be 'very surprised' Quinnen Williams is available for New York Jets at No. 3

http://a.video.nfl.com/films/2016/NFL_NETWORK/show/NFLCOM/OFF/1/190412_nflta_Rap_Quinnen_Williams_1446539_5000k.mp4

Don't get too excited, it's only cuz the Jets won't be picking at #3.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 4ML:

No 2 is one of main reasons I think Niners should pick Q over Bosa. I think Q is already a better player but also his ceiling is so much higher.

What is this garbage where one 21 year old is maxed out while the other can apparently improve without limits...

Couple of things -

a) I never said Bosa is max out. I posted Q has a higher ceiling.
b) I think this is quite obvious - Q has played his position for 1 year. Bosa has been coached at his position for a long time. He's closer to his ceiling than Q. Q is not only playing a new position but in a new body. He has more room for improvement.

I was responding more to your quote and not you personally but I still disagree with the idea that Bosa is maxed out(once again more what i was responding to)

He's still 21, he's still only doing what the coaches he's had have taught him which if you read the article which talks to his dad you'll understand that it wasn't like John Bosa was coaching them up with all there is to know about pass rushing. Both Joey and Nick took huge steps forward as pass rushers with the coaching at OSU. The idea that Nick is maxed out is absurd.

He's 21. Still plenty of room to improve.

I get the idea that QW has a higher ceiling at his position and I've addressed it many times in here. Q is a better DT prospect than Nick is a DE prospect.

That doesn't change our roster. If Buckner wasn't there or if we had someone other than Ford to play edge on pass downs then sign me up. Hell I would only cry from one eye if we pass on Bosa for QW because he is that good. But to me with everything else going on - our roster, positional value of edge rusher and how hard it is to find them...Bosa has to be the pick if he's there.

People are trying to make Q into Aaron Donald and he's not. He would make us a better team no doubt about it, but not in the way I think Bosa can because he would allow the rest of the guys to play at their natural positions. I'm so tired with guys being moved around and asked to play somewhere where it's not an ideal situation for them. We don't have the defensive coaches who can do that. Need to simplify it for them.

inb4 we draft Bosa and play him at Sam...

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:

Originally posted by 4ML:

I think Niners should pick Q over Bosa. I think Q is already a better player but also his ceiling is so much higher.

a) I never said Bosa is max out. I posted Q has a higher ceiling.
b) I think this is quite obvious - Q has played his position for 1 year. Bosa has been coached at his position for a long time. He's closer to his ceiling than Q. Q is not only playing a new position but in a new body. He has more room for improvement.

True.
QW has very high ceiling (poor man's Aaron Donald or poor man Reggie White upside) with a very high floor (almost guaranteed to be very good)

Bosa has a lower ceiling (think Joey Bosa at best) and a lower floor due to high injury risk

This is laughable..

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:
QW could play DE on base downs and move inside to DT in nickel

Base Downs:
Armstead / K Street
Buckner
Solomon / K Street
QW

Nickel Downs:
Dee Ford
Buckner
QW
Ezekiel Ansah??? options for nickel pass rusher = FA / draft pick (D3 or D4) / K Street / Armstead

Mid round EDGE / SAM draft options: Maxx Crosby / Christian Miller / Oshane Ximines, etc
FA Options: Ansah, Nick Perry, etc

This is even better....perfect example of why we need to take Bosa cuz I'm afraid our DC may have similar thoughts.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by rathman4481:
So it's safe to assume Q is a future all pro but bosa has maxed out already.

OKAY

Who said that? Its pretty reasonable to believe that a guy with only one year of starting experience and the sort of athleticism that he possesses still has quite a bit more possible improvement to take.

Bosa is closer to being a finished product than Williams, that is all.

Apparently Matt Miller? It was in the quote you posted.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Would rather have Ford and Bosa rushing from the edge and Buck and Thomas rushing from the inside.

Maybe, IF Bosa can stay healthy ... IF Solomon can improve ... IF QW doesn't become an all-pro = a lot of IF's
Bosa is a short-term better fit, but QW is more of a long-term sure thing

Why would Bosa be a short-term fit? He's only 21.

Bosa would come right in and be a great fit right away = like I said "a better short-term fit". But Bosa is already almost maxxed out so he wouldn't improve much, has lower upside potential, and is more likely to be injured with time than QW.
QW on the other hand isn't a perfect short-term fit but in the longer term would likely be the better player.

Semantics. Bosa is also considered an elite edge prospect so if his "max" is double digit sacks every year I'll buy in a heartbeat.

Yeah, I can live with double digit sacks for the next 10 years.

Originally posted by rathman4481:
So it's safe to assume Q is a future all pro but bosa has maxed out already.

OKAY

Or maybe it's just Q will prove he had more potential in the long run?

And once again I will add...we have the "what have you done for me lately" with QW.

Bosa started this season on a friggin tear. Unfortunately for him it came with tearing his groin so we didn't get to see the rest of his season and people can now claim he's injury prone while also having the ability to claim he wasn't going to take a huge leap this year.

They can also bash his numbers "he never even got double digit sacks in college how will he do in the NFL?"
They go back to his tape from his 2nd game as a true sophomore to project his failure in the NFL.

Nobody wants to think of the flip side? The kid improved big time as the year went on in 2017. Started out dominant this year. It's very possible if he stayed healthy he'd have a monster season that stops all these silly nitpickings of him as a prospect.

I think we got lucky(well about as lucky as you can losing your starting QB and many others to injury) but we never should've been in position to draft Nick.

Pretty sure Lynch was quoted as saying "be careful with one year wonders" now I don't think Q is Kentwan Balmer, his situation is unique and he'll be a great prospect wherever he goes but Nick is a perfect fit for this team, talent, need, helps current roster and positional value...it SHOULD be a no brainer pick.

How many teams have we seen be successful over a long period of time paying two DTs premium money? As good of a prospect as he is..you have to take Nick over him.

It's like drafting a QB. The risk is worth it. You have to take those chances because if you nail the pick you're set for a long time and you have 5 years of cheap contract to work with on a player normally worth serious money.

Originally posted by genus49:

He's still 21, he's still only doing what the coaches he's had have taught him which if you read the article which talks to his dad you'll understand that it wasn't like John Bosa was coaching them up with all there is to know about pass rushing. Both Joey and Nick took huge steps forward as pass rushers with the coaching at OSU. The idea that Nick is maxed out is absurd.

He's 21. Still plenty of room to improve.

17 of the 32 1st rounders last year were 21 or younger.

100's of kids the last several years alone have left school and headed to the NFL Draft @ or under 21. Many of them have shown no improvement,....many of them weren't even drafted to begin with.

In short, there is no correlation whatsoever (in comparison to other draft candidates) of being 21 and having room to improve.

They're virtually all young!! Some improve, some dont.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:

True.
QW has very high ceiling (poor man's Aaron Donald or poor man Reggie White upside) with a very high floor (almost guaranteed to be very good)

Bosa has a lower ceiling (think Joey Bosa at best) and a lower floor due to high injury risk

This is laughable..

I actually agree with MK. Bosa is clearly worth a Top 3 pick to me, but I don't think he'll be better than Joey--and Joey is a very good player, but not an elite player imo. He beats up on lesser Tackles, but he's not like a Kahlil Mack or a Von Miller who can almost impose their will on a game.

That coupled with his injury history, and I'm not as bullish on Bosa as I am QW, who I honestly see as a slam-dunk all-pro with no red flags.

This is a classic case of overthinking it because the wait for the draft is too long. You needed an edge rusher for 5 years after Aldon Smith repeated duis.

I've been on the QW train, but only as a fallback plan in case the Cardinals take Bosa. If they're both on board, and the Niners take QW. It really makes me question their priorities.

I don't think Dee Ford alone by himself is the answer. And if you think you're gonna get an edge stud in the 2nd, I think its being naive.

Then again, this is the same team that repeatedly drafts and signs multiple Big Ends on the roster, and then hopes it will sort itself out later . I would not be shocked with the outcome. I really question their roster building philosophy

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:

True.
QW has very high ceiling (poor man's Aaron Donald or poor man Reggie White upside) with a very high floor (almost guaranteed to be very good)

Bosa has a lower ceiling (think Joey Bosa at best) and a lower floor due to high injury risk

This is laughable..

I actually agree with MK. Bosa is clearly worth a Top 3 pick to me, but I don't think he'll be better than Joey--and Joey is a very good player, but not an elite player imo. He beats up on lesser Tackles, but he's not like a Kahlil Mack or a Von Miller who can almost impose their will on a game.

That coupled with his injury history, and I'm not as bullish on Bosa as I am QW, who I honestly see as a slam-dunk all-pro with no red flags.

Your opinion is based on what though? Sack totals at OSU? And Joey Bosa is an elite player, he just hasn't been able to stay healthy enough to put up the insane numbers but any elite player can get hurt.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by rathman4481:

So it's safe to assume Q is a future all pro but bosa has maxed out already.

OKAY

Or maybe it's just Q will prove he had more potential in the long run?

Just like Solomon

QW>Bosa x1000