Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama

That burst is just insane. Guard had no chance to even get this hands on him lol

You can't be doubled if you're too for it

...and this is Q at the 3 tech

Good luck stopping that. That guard had no chance.

I think QW is a nice consolation prize if we don't get Bosa.

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:

Exactly. If they think QW is elite they should take him. If not, they should trade down or take Bosa

Or just take Bosa who's elite in his own right, plays a more impactful position, and is by far a bigger need

Sure, they should take whomever they think is elite, but not because they have a need at EDGE. I don't think Bosa is 'elite'

Drafting positions instead of players nervous about "need" with the top 5 picks of the draft is a surefire way to go back to being a team scout.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Lol okay dude...you keep thinking he's the next Aaron Donald.

and you keep thinking he's the next gerald mccoy

McCoy comp is not a correct one imho. I got on youtube to see quite a few of his videos and first thing that pops out is - he was often blocked by one guy. There are so many plays you see and you're like - Q would have finished that for loss or for a sack.

McCoy was a highly regarded DT coming out of college - but Q is so much better. Whatever videos are posted online - looking at those, it doesn't add up to comp McCoy for Q. And, then - just raw numbers are one sided also.

Q had 71 total tackles from the nose guard position in 1 season...at a new position.
McCoy never had more than 34 in a year...and had 64 total tackles in his last 2 years at college.

Q had 19.5 ttfl and 8 sacks
McCoy's best was 15.5 ttfl and 6 sacks...again at a position that he has played

...and ppl keep saying - Q had more talent around him. So what? Did Oklahoma not have talent in 2009? lol c'mon. And unlike McCoy - regardless of talent around him...Q was still getting doubled consistently. That actually shows even with all the talent around him, offense was focused on stopping him.

Nice research 4ML, the way I see it McCoy's highlights look like Quinnen, but Quinnen's game film is practically a highlight reel.

The kid is an amazing prospect.

People are going nuts because of our roster now, but the thing is it will change drastically in 2-3 years.

Solomon's 5th year option will be due which unless he shows cast improvement we won't pick up and AA will be long gone.

With QW & Buck, we could have any 2nd rate edges and be successful, not to mention Ford killing it for 5 years while Quinnen is on his rookie deal.

Look I'm a big Bosa guy as well, but I'm happy as long as we get either. I've said it before 2 elite prospects, the #2 pick, it's not difficult.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 4ML:
lol you can disagree all you want but it is a fact that Q is 1 and a half year younger than Donald when they declared for draft and Q will go a lot higher than Donald did.

Q hasn't even played this position for too long.

Q is something else.

Lol okay dude...you keep thinking he's the next Aaron Donald.

I don't lol - their games are different.

I do think he has potential to be the best defensive player in the league.

You have these feelings before December?

Is December a cut off date to evaluate a player?!?

And Q played in January - so your question is invalrod.

Considering this very thread had people souring on Williams after his game in January my question is very valrod...

And my point is while I think Q is a terrific prospect the hype on him from some people is getting beyond crazy. He's not Aaron Donald. He's got great tape and he does have terrific potential but I'm not seeing a guy who's giving you 20 sacks per year. And really outside of Donald when was the last time a DT won DPOY? Warren Sapp in 99...

So unless you think he can be Aaron Donald or JJ Watt...the position impact simply doesn't lend itself to being best defensive player in the league. You can certainly make an argument that DPOY doesn't always reward the best but I still think the idea that Q has a chance to be the best player on defense in the league while Bosa is at best Joey Bosa to be crap.

I understand the intrigue with Williams. I love him as a prospect...if only we'd have Myles Garrett on this roster right now along with Ford then it's a no brainer pick in QW. We don't. We've been looking for an outside rusher for years. Adding Ford doesn't somehow fix the other side. Bosa makes too much sense.

Originally posted by 4ML:


You can't be doubled if you're too for it

Go watch the 2nd half of that game...in fact go watch the 2nd half of the Oklahoma and Clemson game as well.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by MK_Ultra:
Exactly. If they think QW is elite they should take him. If not, they should trade down or take Bosa

Or just take Bosa who's elite in his own right, plays a more impactful position, and is by far a bigger need

Sure, they should take whomever they think is elite, but not because they have a need at EDGE. I don't think Bosa is 'elite'

Drafting positions instead of players nervous about "need" with the top 5 picks of the draft is a surefire way to go back to being a team scout.

Nick Bosa is the #1 or #2, at worst #3 rated player in nearly every legit evaluation you can find online. The idea that QW >>>>>> Bosa as a prospect is simply not true.

When you add in our current roster and our needs, sprinkle in the positional value and cost of edge rushers then Bosa becomes the smarter pick. This isn't 2017. Buckner is a proven stud, we have nobody on the edges who can consistently rush the passer outside of Ford who has had injury issues frequently. And several players whose best skills are playing inside.

Originally posted by 4ML:
McCoy comp is not a correct one imho. I got on youtube to see quite a few of his videos and first thing that pops out is - he was often blocked by one guy. There are so many plays you see and you're like - Q would have finished that for loss or for a sack.

McCoy was a highly regarded DT coming out of college - but Q is so much better. Whatever videos are posted online - looking at those, it doesn't add up to comp McCoy for Q. And, then - just raw numbers are one sided also.

Q had 71 total tackles from the nose guard position in 1 season...at a new position.
McCoy never had more than 34 in a year...and had 64 total tackles in his last 2 years at college.

Q had 19.5 ttfl and 8 sacks
McCoy's best was 15.5 ttfl and 6 sacks...again at a position that he has played

...and ppl keep saying - Q had more talent around him. So what? Did Oklahoma not have talent in 2009? lol c'mon. And unlike McCoy - regardless of talent around him...Q was still getting doubled consistently. That actually shows even with all the talent around him, offense was focused on stopping him.

Who were the other DT around McCoy at Oklahoma? raekwon davis took on plenty of double teams as well. He's a first 1st rd talent. Also what clips are you looking at on YouTube?

Just because you keep saying he's better than every single DT to come out ever doesn't make it true man.

Q looks damn near identical to McCoy at Oklahoma...Also I have no idea why that's a bad thing? He's a all-pro. DT just isn't as impactful as edge.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Nice research 4ML, the way I see it McCoy's highlights look like Quinnen, but Quinnen's game film is practically a highlight reel.

The kid is an amazing prospect.

People are going nuts because of our roster now, but the thing is it will change drastically in 2-3 years.

Solomon's 5th year option will be due which unless he shows cast improvement we won't pick up and AA will be long gone.

With QW & Buck, we could have any 2nd rate edges and be successful, not to mention Ford killing it for 5 years while Quinnen is on his rookie deal.

Look I'm a big Bosa guy as well, but I'm happy as long as we get either. I've said it before 2 elite prospects, the #2 pick, it's not difficult.

I don't want people to think I hate Q, because of don't he is 1A in this draft....that said I would NOT draft him over Bosa. IMO if I had to pick if Q or Bosa slide on draft night it's the DT.

As far as game film go watch the 2nd half of Clemson/Oklahoma/Georgia...not really "highlight" reels.

2nd rate edge rushers still need to beat NFL tackles. You have no idea if Ford will "kill it" his own team traded him away for a 2020 2nd. He's got one elite yr of play in a contract yr and has been injured quite a bit. Ford could very well be one and done here.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 4ML:
McCoy comp is not a correct one imho. I got on youtube to see quite a few of his videos and first thing that pops out is - he was often blocked by one guy. There are so many plays you see and you're like - Q would have finished that for loss or for a sack.

McCoy was a highly regarded DT coming out of college - but Q is so much better. Whatever videos are posted online - looking at those, it doesn't add up to comp McCoy for Q. And, then - just raw numbers are one sided also.

Q had 71 total tackles from the nose guard position in 1 season...at a new position.
McCoy never had more than 34 in a year...and had 64 total tackles in his last 2 years at college.

Q had 19.5 ttfl and 8 sacks
McCoy's best was 15.5 ttfl and 6 sacks...again at a position that he has played

...and ppl keep saying - Q had more talent around him. So what? Did Oklahoma not have talent in 2009? lol c'mon. And unlike McCoy - regardless of talent around him...Q was still getting doubled consistently. That actually shows even with all the talent around him, offense was focused on stopping him.

Who were the other DT around McCoy at Oklahoma? raekwon davis took on plenty of double teams as well. He's a first 1st rd talent.

Just because you keep saying he's better than every single DT to come out ever doesn't make it true man.

McCoy looks damn near identical to Q at Oklahoma...Also I have no idea why that's a bad thing? He's a all-pro. DT just isn't as impactful as edge.

I wonder what this thread would be like if QW was coming out a couple of years ago before Aaron Donald's two year tear.

People forget that DTs outside of Donald simply do not dominate games like he's been doing. The comparisons to Donald are unfair and not just.

We already have Buckner so how much impact do you really think QW will have playing next to him in terms of that sexy production you want out of a #2 overall pick?

Check the Solomon Thomas thread...that guy had insane potential as well. How's that working out? Q is bigger...that automatically means he'll be good to go?

Eventually you have to spread the talent around. If Bosa was a mediocre prospect then I understand being all in on Q. But they're pretty close in terms of prospects. More potential from Q doesn't mean he'll ever reach his ceiling. Projections also get teams in trouble. Pretty sure we're still waiting on Armstead's "true potential"

Playing Buckner or Williams at edge would be a waste. Playing them together in passing downs will be great...but what will happen at edge across from Ford? What happens if Ford gets hurt?

I think it's funny that we've had people basically claiming that Bosa may be nothing special and average like 10 sacks per season(which somehow is bad) but push hard for QW. How many sacks do you think he'll have with Buckner on the same team?

The position in general doesn't produce the gaudy numbers. We have a stud at the position already. Help him out by surrounding him with talent at the other spots and not give offenses easy planning options to avoid the rush coming from only one spot.

Originally posted by random49er:
Drafting positions instead of players nervous about "need" with the top 5 picks of the draft is a surefire way to go back to being a team scout.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by random49er:
Drafting positions instead of players nervous about "need" with the top 5 picks of the draft is a surefire way to go back to being a team scout.

The "we're going to draft the best player available" line is almost never true. Teams draft to need. It's best player available who fills a need.

— Andy Benoit (@Andy_Benoit) March 28, 2019

Once again...if Bosa was a much weaker prospect at DE then all this makes sense.

Fact is while QW is a better DT prospect than Bosa is a DE prospect, they're both excellent prospects overall and their grades are in the same ballpark. When that happens you go with the need, positional value, positional cost - all of those favor Bosa.

Originally posted by genus49:
I wonder what this thread would be like if QW was coming out a couple of years ago before Aaron Donald's two year tear.

People forget that DTs outside of Donald simply do not dominate games like he's been doing. The comparisons to Donald are unfair and not just.

We already have Buckner so how much impact do you really think QW will have playing next to him in terms of that sexy production you want out of a #2 overall pick?

Check the Solomon Thomas thread...that guy had insane potential as well. How's that working out? Q is bigger...that automatically means he'll be good to go?

Eventually you have to spread the talent around. If Bosa was a mediocre prospect then I understand being all in on Q. But they're pretty close in terms of prospects. More potential from Q doesn't mean he'll ever reach his ceiling. Projections also get teams in trouble. Pretty sure we're still waiting on Armstead's "true potential"

Playing Buckner or Williams at edge would be a waste. Playing them together in passing downs will be great...but what will happen at edge across from Ford? What happens if Ford gets hurt?

I think it's funny that we've had people basically claiming that Bosa may be nothing special and average like 10 sacks per season(which somehow is bad) but push hard for QW. How many sacks do you think he'll have with Buckner on the same team?

The position in general doesn't produce the gaudy numbers. We have a stud at the position already. Help him out by surrounding him with talent at the other spots and not give offenses easy planning options to avoid the rush coming from only one spot.

It's unrealistic expectations and like you said it's not fair to Q. If there's anyone that comps closer to Donald it's Oliver IMO, yet not one person wants him if Q wasn't in this draft, you could argue we shouldn't even draft a DT based on all the other needs we have and draft capital/money invested at DT.

Matt Miller comps him to Fletcher Cox, which is heavy praise as well. This was his first yr as a double digital sack guy (10.5). People get pissed if I say he comps to McCoy, which shouldn't be a knock. He's been a top 5 DT in football for yrs. Donald is on another planet. It's like comping Reggie white to Bosa, come on meow.