Hakeem Butler-WR-Iowa State

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
He's my top WR pick at #36, but I think Shanahan will pass on him since he doesn't fit his prototype. Will look elsewhere for a smaller guy.

Shanahan's prototype is separation. He had his best years calling plays with Julio Jones, but there aren't too many Julio Jones in this world.

Yes.....we know. No need to beat the dead horse. We have enough speed guys on the roster who can get a lot of YAC. Our problem is goal line situations where separation isn't as important in tight spaces.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

He's my top WR pick at #36, but I think Shanahan will pass on him since he doesn't fit his prototype. Will look elsewhere for a smaller guy.

Shanahan's prototype is separation. He had his best years calling plays with Julio Jones, but there aren't too many Julio Jones in this world.

Here's how he gets his "separation" lol

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
He's my top WR pick at #36, but I think Shanahan will pass on him since he doesn't fit his prototype. Will look elsewhere for a smaller guy.

Shanahan's prototype is separation. He had his best years calling plays with Julio Jones, but there aren't too many Julio Jones in this world.

Yes.....we know. No need to beat the dead horse. We have enough speed guys on the roster who can get a lot of YAC. Our problem is goal line situations where separation isn't as important in tight spaces.

Right no need to beat a dead horse saying Shanahan only likes smaller receivers. Had Andre Johnson as his top receiver in 2008, 2009 and had his best years under Shanahan. My point is, if Butler can create separation in his routes, Shanahan will pick him if he gets a chance to. Also the problem last year was health more than just goal line situations. You think any QB can just throw it up and the tallest receiver will come down with it? You also think that if you just put a tall receiver in on goal line situations, defenses won't key on that?

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Yes.....we know. No need to beat the dead horse. We have enough speed guys on the roster who can get a lot of YAC. Our problem is goal line situations where separation isn't as important in tight spaces.

Ah actually being able to separate in the RZ is proabaly more important. You don't have to be fast to separate go watch Keenan Allen.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Right no need to beat a dead horse saying Shanahan only likes smaller receivers. Had Andre Johnson as his top receiver in 2008, 2009 and had his best years under Shanahan. My point is, if Butler can create separation in his routes, Shanahan will pick him if he gets a chance to. Also the problem last year was health more than just goal line situations. You think any QB can just throw it up and the tallest receiver will come down with it? You also think that if you just put a tall receiver in on goal line situations, defenses won't key on that?

We got DBs all over the NFL that are 6' + and more athletic then most WRs. s**t gets harder not easier at the next level. I like Butler more than DK value wise.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Right no need to beat a dead horse saying Shanahan only likes smaller receivers. Had Andre Johnson as his top receiver in 2008, 2009 and had his best years under Shanahan. My point is, if Butler can create separation in his routes, Shanahan will pick him if he gets a chance to. Also the problem last year was health more than just goal line situations. You think any QB can just throw it up and the tallest receiver will come down with it? You also think that if you just put a tall receiver in on goal line situations, defenses won't key on that?

Just because he had guys like Andre....Julio.... it doesn't mean anything. He did not pick those guys. He wasn't a head coach. It says nothing about his preferences.

In San Francisco, he is a head coach. And he has a lot of power in the draft. In fact, he is basically making the draft selections himself. E.g....CJ Beathard, Joe Williams, Dante Pettis. Let's not act like he had this type of power with the Falcons and Texans. I am judging him based on what he has done here and what he has said in interviews. So far....I have noticed he has a type. That's all.

No, I am not a believer that Jimmy G coming back will improve our red zone situation that much. I have never shared this optimism. In fact, we still looked terrible in that 5 game stretch in 2017 when he was a starter. That's another story for another day, we can talk about in the Shanahan thread. I'm sure it will be a big talking point this upcoming season.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Ah actually being able to separate in the RZ is proabaly more important. You don't have to be fast to separate go watch Keenan Allen.

If we can get a smaller guy who can separate as good as Keenan Allen, OBJ, and Antonio Brown, I'll be on board.

What are the odds we hit on a guy like that?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Right no need to beat a dead horse saying Shanahan only likes smaller receivers. Had Andre Johnson as his top receiver in 2008, 2009 and had his best years under Shanahan. My point is, if Butler can create separation in his routes, Shanahan will pick him if he gets a chance to. Also the problem last year was health more than just goal line situations. You think any QB can just throw it up and the tallest receiver will come down with it? You also think that if you just put a tall receiver in on goal line situations, defenses won't key on that?

We got DBs all over the NFL that are 6' + and more athletic then most WRs. s**t gets harder not easier at the next level. I like Butler more than DK value wise.

And so do I. Love me some Hakeem Butler, but my point is Shanahan likes all types of receivers not just smaller ones. I could only hope that Shanahan likes Butler too, would love to see him in red and gold.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Right no need to beat a dead horse saying Shanahan only likes smaller receivers. Had Andre Johnson as his top receiver in 2008, 2009 and had his best years under Shanahan. My point is, if Butler can create separation in his routes, Shanahan will pick him if he gets a chance to. Also the problem last year was health more than just goal line situations. You think any QB can just throw it up and the tallest receiver will come down with it? You also think that if you just put a tall receiver in on goal line situations, defenses won't key on that?

Just because he had guys like Andre....Julio.... it doesn't mean anything. He did not pick those guys. He wasn't a head coach. It says nothing about his preferences.

In San Francisco, he is a head coach. And he has a lot of power in the draft. In fact, he is basically making the draft selections himself. E.g....CJ Beathard, Joe Williams, Dante Pettis. Let's not act like he had this type of power with the Falcons and Texans. I am judging him based on what he has done here and what he has said in interviews. So far....I have noticed he has a type. That's all.

No, I am not a believer that Jimmy G coming back will improve our red zone situation that much. I have never shared this optimism. In fact, we still looked terrible in that 5 game stretch in 2017 when he was a starter. That's another story for another day, we can talk about in the Shanahan thread. I'm sure it will be a big talking point this upcoming season.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Ah actually being able to separate in the RZ is proabaly more important. You don't have to be fast to separate go watch Keenan Allen.

If we can get a smaller guy who can separate as good as Keenan Allen, OBJ, and Antonio Brown, I'll be on board.

What are the odds we hit on a guy like that?

So since Shanahan has been HC, what big receiver with speed and runs decent routes has been available? Sorry to have short posts, gotta take my sons to school and go to work. lol

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Just because he had guys like Andre....Julio.... it doesn't mean anything. He did not pick those guys. He wasn't a head coach. It says nothing about his preferences.

In San Francisco, he is a head coach. And he has a lot of power in the draft. In fact, he is basically making the draft selections himself. E.g....CJ Beathard, Joe Williams, Dante Pettis. Let's not act like he had this type of power with the Falcons and Texans. I am judging him based on what he has done here and what he has said in interviews. So far....I have noticed he has a type. That's all.

No, I am not a believer that Jimmy G coming back will improve our red zone situation that much. I have never shared this optimism. In fact, we still looked terrible in that 5 game stretch in 2017 when he was a starter. That's another story for another day, we can talk about in the Shanahan thread. I'm sure it will be a big talking point this upcoming season.


If we can get a smaller guy who can separate as good as Keenan Allen, OBJ, and Antonio Brown, I'll be on board.

What are the odds we hit on a guy like that?

What are the odds we can hit on a big WR like Julio and AJ green as well just because you're big doesn't mean you score a ton of TDs. There's a reason why those guys go early in drafts, BIG fluid/fast WRs that can run crisp routes don't grow on trees.

Deebo had 11tds this yr with a god awful QB throwing him the ball. I want guys that can make players with the ball in their hands and can run Kyle's offense the way it should be.

If they think Butler can do that sweet. If not, find someone that can. You have to be able to beat man at the next level and that's something Butler wasn't overall very good at.

If we really have are hearts set on getting a true blue WR1 stud, you're gonna have to wait until 2020...gonna be a historic class.

Jeudy
Shenault
ruggs
higgins
Wallace
Lamb

Originally posted by NYniner85:
What are the odds we can hit on a big WR like Julio and AJ green as well just because you're big doesn't mean you score a ton of TDs. There's a reason why those guys go early in drafts, BIG fluid/fast WRs that can run crisp routes don't grow on trees.

Deebo had 11tds this yr with a god awful QB throwing him the ball. I want guys that can make players with the ball in their hands and can run Kyle's offense the way it should be.

If they think Butler can do that sweet. If not, find someone that can. You have to be able to beat man at the next level and that's something Butler wasn't overall very good at.

I am looking at it as more of a matchup game, rather than if the guy can separate and run crisp routes. My issue with Kyle is that this is the only thing that matters to him.

If the CB doesn't get beat and matches the WR, then it becomes more of a 50/50 ball in goal line. It's easier to shadow a receiver as a corner when you're working with smaller spaces. You want a height advantage there.

If Deebo is the guy, then fine.....I accept the pick, just like I accepted the Pettis pick. But the guy better be able to separate consistently in the goal line against NFL cornerbacks....otherwise...we're back at square one again with these receivers.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If we really have are hearts set on getting a true blue WR1 stud, you're gonna have to wait until 2020...gonna be a historic class.
Jeudy
Shenault
ruggs
higgins
Wallace
Lamb

bodes well for us then.

I think we will be looking at WR again next year, personally..

Originally posted by Kolohe:
So since Shanahan has been HC, what big receiver with speed and runs decent routes has been available? Sorry to have short posts, gotta take my sons to school and go to work. lol

according to Shanahan, none have been available. He's only waiting for unicorns like Julio Jones and AJ Green to be available in my opinion.

Even if there is a big receiver who runs above average routes, this won't be enough. He wants them to be perfect in this area.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
I am looking at it as more of a matchup game, rather than if the guy can separate and run crisp routes. My issue with Kyle is that this is the only thing that matters to him.

If the CB doesn't get beat and matches the WR, then it becomes more of a 50/50 ball in goal line. It's easier to shadow a receiver as a corner when you're working with smaller spaces. You want a height advantage there.

If Deebo is the guy, then fine.....I accept the pick, just like I accepted the Pettis pick. But the guy better be able to separate consistently in the goal line against NFL cornerbacks....otherwise...we're back at square one again with these receivers.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If we really have are hearts set on getting a true blue WR1 stud, you're gonna have to wait until 2020...gonna be a historic class.
Jeudy
Shenault
ruggs
higgins
Wallace
Lamb

bodes well for us then.

I think we will be looking at WR again next year, personally..

Did you watch Deebo in college in the RZ? IF not please go watch

He's got almost a 40" vert. He's in the 90 percentile among NFL WRs athletically. Pettis is straight up amazing off the LOS (and has some hops as well). both guys feet are amazing.

I'm guessing you wouldn't want Jeudy because he's not 6-3, or a guy like Hopkins who's "only" 6-1 f**ker scores TDs at will.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
according to Shanahan, none have been available. He's only waiting for unicorns like Julio Jones and AJ Green to be available in my opinion.

Even if there is a big receiver who runs above average routes, this won't be enough. He wants them to be perfect in this area.

sorry if you're looking for avg in the one area that matters most for WRs

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Did you watch Deebo in college in the RZ? IF not please go watch

He's got almost a 40" vert. He's in the 90 percentile among NFL WRs athletically. Pettis is straight up amazing off the LOS (and has some hops as well). both guys feet are amazing.

I'm guessing you wouldn't want Jeudy because he's not 6-3, or a guy like Hopkins who's "only" 6-1 f**ker scores TDs at will.

I am not saying I don't want him. I just have concerns. Deebo looks like he can get it done in the RZ in college. Can it translate? We'll see. In my opinion, I see some issues with him beating press coverage at the next level if a cornerback gets his hands on him. Just like Pettis actually. Anyway...this is not the Deebo thread.

You're equating what I'm saying to....well I guess you don't want Hopkins, OBJ, Antonio Brown because they're shorter than what I'm looking for. That's not what I'm saying. If you truly think a guy is elite, then go for it. The size shouldn't matter. But guys like this just don't grow on trees.

It's like saying. Well we should draft a quarterback that is 5'10'' because Russell Wilson is short and can get it done at the next level. And if people start having height questions with the guy, they start their rebuttal with "You don't think Russell Wilson is elite?". And then start throwing out Russell Wilson comps.

Height and size is just one factor of the total package I'm looking at. And also...something that we are missing on the roster. Can agree to disagree if this is actually a factor for our poor RZ performance, I guess.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
sorry if you're looking for avg in the one area that matters most for WRs

I said above average, not average. If a guy is big and can run routes better than 70th percentile of receivers, this probably won't fly for our head coach who is looking for absolute perfection in terms of footwork.

Him and Bosa