Hakeem Butler-WR-Iowa State

Originally posted by Joecool:

I never considered TO as having great hands. He always seemed like a sloppy catcher. TO was definitely a body catcher. Rarely did I ever see him high point a ball. Probably one of the sloppiest catchers who is in the top 10 all time. IMO, reps weigh heavy on confidence in catching. You throw the ball a guys way at the minimum 10 times a game, he will gain confidence and will come through way more often than a WR who has inconsistent hands and only gets 3 to 5 targets a game.

I've been thinking this exact same thing. TO had plenty of concentration drops. I remember that being a major point in the TO vs Moss debate back then. Moss had better hands and was a better burner. TO was probably the most dangerous player in the game with the ball in his hands.

With Butler I see a little of a mix, of both their strengths but also both their weaknesses.

I'm definitely not saying Butler will be in their league. Who knows. But hell, when was the last time we had a WR who reminded us at all of either Moss or TO??

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I am going full steam through WRs and hit on all of Butler's snaps from 10 games in 2018 a day ago.

I would REALLY love to put him at WR1 because there is so much to like.....but, his hands are so inconsistent. Some of the drops are just disastrous and inexcusable. The team that drafts him is going to have to take the good with the bad because he is going to be one of the guys with the most drops each year. At the same time, he is such a great target, and is super productive. Still a top level WR, but the drops are going to drive some teams and fan bases crazy.

After Isabella, who's your #1 guy?

My WR board right now....I haven't completed all of my full reviews..even though I have completed most (working on Marquise Brown now):

1. AJ Brown
2. Andy Isabella
3. Hakeem Butler
4. N'Keal Harry
5. JJ Arcega-Whiteside

Interestingly enough, AJ Brown's best games came after Metcalf went out. Brown was more of a slot receiver until DK went out. Once he went outside, his numbers exploded. Dwarfed Metcalf's numbers on the outside.

Understanding you are still working on M. Brown, where is Deebo Samuel in your rankings?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I am going full steam through WRs and hit on all of Butler's snaps from 10 games in 2018 a day ago.

I would REALLY love to put him at WR1 because there is so much to like.....but, his hands are so inconsistent. Some of the drops are just disastrous and inexcusable. The team that drafts him is going to have to take the good with the bad because he is going to be one of the guys with the most drops each year. At the same time, he is such a great target, and is super productive. Still a top level WR, but the drops are going to drive some teams and fan bases crazy.

After Isabella, who's your #1 guy?

My WR board right now....I haven't completed all of my full reviews..even though I have completed most (working on Marquise Brown now):

1. AJ Brown
2. Andy Isabella
3. Hakeem Butler
4. N'Keal Harry
5. JJ Arcega-Whiteside

Interestingly enough, AJ Brown's best games came after Metcalf went out. Brown was more of a slot receiver until DK went out. Once he went outside, his numbers exploded. Dwarfed Metcalf's numbers on the outside.

Understanding you are still working on M. Brown, where is Deebo Samuel in your rankings?

He's 8th right now. I have been talking with someone who knows Deebo. He states that he comes across as a real selfish, "all about me" person. The person that I have connections with knows Samuel pretty well (sees him often). That should be a slight concern. Not a deal breaker, but just part of the equation.

Metcalf re-ran his shuttle and cone today. Improved both, but today's 7.25 cone is still VERY sluggish for a guy considered a top quality WR prospect. Ran a 4.,40 shuttle, which is also slow. Washington St. OT Andre Dillard also ran a 4,40 shuttle. A fifty-pounds heavier Rashan Gary ran an equal cone time.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I am going full steam through WRs and hit on all of Butler's snaps from 10 games in 2018 a day ago.

I would REALLY love to put him at WR1 because there is so much to like.....but, his hands are so inconsistent. Some of the drops are just disastrous and inexcusable. The team that drafts him is going to have to take the good with the bad because he is going to be one of the guys with the most drops each year. At the same time, he is such a great target, and is super productive. Still a top level WR, but the drops are going to drive some teams and fan bases crazy.

After Isabella, who's your #1 guy?

My WR board right now....I haven't completed all of my full reviews..even though I have completed most (working on Marquise Brown now):

1. AJ Brown
2. Andy Isabella
3. Hakeem Butler
4. N'Keal Harry
5. JJ Arcega-Whiteside

Interestingly enough, AJ Brown's best games came after Metcalf went out. Brown was more of a slot receiver until DK went out. Once he went outside, his numbers exploded. Dwarfed Metcalf's numbers on the outside.

Awesome, thanks. Was going to ask you your thoughts on JJ. From what I've seen (although I don't know how to evaluate a playet, they all look good to me lol) and read, he looks like a really good WR. there should be a very WR available at 36

JJ is the best red-zone target in the draft, and by a country mile. It is not close. He doesn't have the juice of other receivers, but he runs really nice routes and has solid hands. He is never going to be a burner, but just makes plays.

Not sure how to feel about this class' wide receivers

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

I am going full steam through WRs and hit on all of Butler's snaps from 10 games in 2018 a day ago.

I would REALLY love to put him at WR1 because there is so much to like.....but, his hands are so inconsistent. Some of the drops are just disastrous and inexcusable. The team that drafts him is going to have to take the good with the bad because he is going to be one of the guys with the most drops each year. At the same time, he is such a great target, and is super productive. Still a top level WR, but the drops are going to drive some teams and fan bases crazy.

After Isabella, who's your #1 guy?

My WR board right now....I haven't completed all of my full reviews..even though I have completed most (working on Marquise Brown now):

1. AJ Brown
2. Andy Isabella
3. Hakeem Butler
4. N'Keal Harry
5. JJ Arcega-Whiteside

Interestingly enough, AJ Brown's best games came after Metcalf went out. Brown was more of a slot receiver until DK went out. Once he went outside, his numbers exploded. Dwarfed Metcalf's numbers on the outside.

Understanding you are still working on M. Brown, where is Deebo Samuel in your rankings?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

I am going full steam through WRs and hit on all of Butler's snaps from 10 games in 2018 a day ago.

I would REALLY love to put him at WR1 because there is so much to like.....but, his hands are so inconsistent. Some of the drops are just disastrous and inexcusable. The team that drafts him is going to have to take the good with the bad because he is going to be one of the guys with the most drops each year. At the same time, he is such a great target, and is super productive. Still a top level WR, but the drops are going to drive some teams and fan bases crazy.

After Isabella, who's your #1 guy?

My WR board right now....I haven't completed all of my full reviews..even though I have completed most (working on Marquise Brown now):

1. AJ Brown
2. Andy Isabella
3. Hakeem Butler
4. N'Keal Harry
5. JJ Arcega-Whiteside

Interestingly enough, AJ Brown's best games came after Metcalf went out. Brown was more of a slot receiver until DK went out. Once he went outside, his numbers exploded. Dwarfed Metcalf's numbers on the outside.

Understanding you are still working on M. Brown, where is Deebo Samuel in your rankings?

He's 8th right now. I have been talking with someone who knows Deebo. He states that he comes across as a real selfish, "all about me" person. The person that I have connections with knows Samuel pretty well (sees him often). That should be a slight concern. Not a deal breaker, but just part of the equation.

Metcalf re-ran his shuttle and cone today. Improved both, but today's 7.25 cone is still VERY sluggish for a guy considered a top quality WR prospect. Ran a 4.,40 shuttle, which is also slow. Washington St. OT Andre Dillard also ran a 4,40 shuttle. A fifty-pounds heavier Rashan Gary ran an equal cone time.

Most WRs who play tough usually have some sort of edge about them, be it selfish or scrappy. Personally, I don't think you can play physical at WR and not have some sort of edge. Definitely do not want a WR without that edge. Even Boldin comes off as selfish when he's on the field.

The mental makeup of the position is selfish. The instant you begin your route, you should be hungry and desperately looking for a way to get that ball thrown your way. And when it is thrown, you must be like a dog and go after it more than anyone around you.

The WRs who don't have that edge don't usually catch balls that aren't perfectly placed.

Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:

I've been thinking this exact same thing. TO had plenty of concentration drops. I remember that being a major point in the TO vs Moss debate back then. Moss had better hands and was a better burner. TO was probably the most dangerous player in the game with the ball in his hands.

With Butler I see a little of a mix, of both their strengths but also both their weaknesses.

I'm definitely not saying Butler will be in their league. Who knows. But hell, when was the last time we had a WR who reminded us at all of either Moss or TO??

How could Moss be a better route runner if he only ran half the route tree?


Edit- Oh wait you said burner not route runner /fail.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

I am going full steam through WRs and hit on all of Butler's snaps from 10 games in 2018 a day ago.

I would REALLY love to put him at WR1 because there is so much to like.....but, his hands are so inconsistent. Some of the drops are just disastrous and inexcusable. The team that drafts him is going to have to take the good with the bad because he is going to be one of the guys with the most drops each year. At the same time, he is such a great target, and is super productive. Still a top level WR, but the drops are going to drive some teams and fan bases crazy.

After Isabella, who's your #1 guy?

My WR board right now....I haven't completed all of my full reviews..even though I have completed most (working on Marquise Brown now):

1. AJ Brown
2. Andy Isabella
3. Hakeem Butler
4. N'Keal Harry
5. JJ Arcega-Whiteside

Interestingly enough, AJ Brown's best games came after Metcalf went out. Brown was more of a slot receiver until DK went out. Once he went outside, his numbers exploded. Dwarfed Metcalf's numbers on the outside.

Understanding you are still working on M. Brown, where is Deebo Samuel in your rankings?

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

I am going full steam through WRs and hit on all of Butler's snaps from 10 games in 2018 a day ago.

I would REALLY love to put him at WR1 because there is so much to like.....but, his hands are so inconsistent. Some of the drops are just disastrous and inexcusable. The team that drafts him is going to have to take the good with the bad because he is going to be one of the guys with the most drops each year. At the same time, he is such a great target, and is super productive. Still a top level WR, but the drops are going to drive some teams and fan bases crazy.

After Isabella, who's your #1 guy?

My WR board right now....I haven't completed all of my full reviews..even though I have completed most (working on Marquise Brown now):

1. AJ Brown
2. Andy Isabella
3. Hakeem Butler
4. N'Keal Harry
5. JJ Arcega-Whiteside

Interestingly enough, AJ Brown's best games came after Metcalf went out. Brown was more of a slot receiver until DK went out. Once he went outside, his numbers exploded. Dwarfed Metcalf's numbers on the outside.

Understanding you are still working on M. Brown, where is Deebo Samuel in your rankings?

He's 8th right now. I have been talking with someone who knows Deebo. He states that he comes across as a real selfish, "all about me" person. The person that I have connections with knows Samuel pretty well (sees him often). That should be a slight concern. Not a deal breaker, but just part of the equation.

Metcalf re-ran his shuttle and cone today. Improved both, but today's 7.25 cone is still VERY sluggish for a guy considered a top quality WR prospect. Ran a 4.,40 shuttle, which is also slow. Washington St. OT Andre Dillard also ran a 4,40 shuttle. A fifty-pounds heavier Rashan Gary ran an equal cone time.

Most WRs who play tough usually have some sort of edge about them, be it selfish or scrappy. Personally, I don't think you can play physical at WR and not have some sort of edge. Definitely do not want a WR without that edge. Even Boldin comes off as selfish when he's on the field.

The mental makeup of the position is selfish. The instant you begin your route, you should be hungry and desperately looking for a way to get that ball thrown your way. And when it is thrown, you must be like a dog and go after it more than anyone around you.

The WRs who don't have that edge don't usually catch balls that aren't perfectly placed.

I agree to an extent. You can build a team around a guy who is selfish like Jerry Rice. You can build a team with a guy who is selfish like OBJ. You should build a team without a guy who is selfish like Keyshawn Johnson.

I'd be interested to know what type of selfish Deebo is.

Must draft at 36

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:

Must draft at 36

Wouldn't hate it

Matt Miller's comp for him is Demaryius Thomas

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:

Must draft at 36

Wouldn't hate it

Would love it

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
Must draft at 36

Wouldn't hate it

Would love it

Would want some more of it

He's been working out a lot with Calvin Johnson....CJ sees a lot of him in Butler. High praise.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

He's been working out a lot with Calvin Johnson....CJ sees a lot of him in Butler. High praise.

Man I always want a fast and tall WR but year after year we always pass. 😔

I have him as WR4 after AJ Brown, Isabella, and M. Brown. He's be WR1 if his hands were more consistent. I really like the kid and hope he has a great NFL career. Don't think he will be there at 36, but would be a great selection there