Draft Jalen Hurts QB OU?

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Lol, you say that now after the fact, but most "experts" couldn't stand Jackson as a quarterback and wanted him at receiver.

Like who? Bill Polian? i thought that Jackson had all the tools to be an excellent quarterback after initially doubting him early on in his college career. The improvement he showed from his sophomore to junior year was one of the biggest single season turnarounds I've seen from any college prospect. He was clearly putting the work in to get better as a passer. I think most of the people bashing him were just being lazy and basing it on his sophomore performances. His junior year he was a much different guy, matching up much improved passing mechanics and decision making to go with top end athleticism.

Hurts is a guy who lost his job at Bama and then went to a scheme that has produced two consecutive #1 draft picks and failed to show any improvement as a passer. He is who he is, solid physical specimen, lacks the requisite instincts and awareness as a passer.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:
So was Lamar Jackson.

Not even close. Jackson was a lot further along as a passer and a much more explosive athlete. Hurts can only dream of being able to sling the football the way Jackson did at Louisville.

If you're going to draft him to be a gimmick QB/RB hybrid ala Taysom Hill, it might work out fine. If you're going to draft him with the idea that he's going to be a starter for you someday, you'll be mightily disappointed.

I disagree. Hurts might be a better passer at this point in comparison and a slightly lesser athlete.

I was down on Hurts as an NFL QB when he was at Bama. He seemed to be a superior athlete on a loaded squad. His passing was not needed. He showed more versatility with Oklahoma. He could fit in as a change of pace QB and develop into a useful starter, worth the gamble.

Originally posted by NewEraNiner16:

I'd draft him to sit and dev until he was ready or when JG's contract expires...what ever comes first.

No thanks

Mullens would wipe the floor with him.

Originally posted by jcs:
I disagree. Hurts might be a better passer at this point in comparison and a slightly lesser athlete.

He isn't. Jackson his junior year at Louisville WAS their entire offense. He improved leaps and bound as a passer playing in an offense that had a lot of pro level concepts. Hurts couldn't hold on to his job at a Bama program that was loaded with top draft picks on offense, transferred to Oklahoma where he was also surrounded by top tier talent on offense, failed to show any real improvement as a passer. He had the best pass blocking in the nation and still struggled with his decision making and getting the ball out quickly.

Hurts also lacks the arm and the deep passing ability of Lamar Jackson. I think a better overall comparison is Dak Prescott who was also compared to Tebow and having studied Prescott pretty closely, I still think he was further along as a passer. Hurts is your classic "one read and go" guy. Where someone like CJ Beathard has far too much patience in the pocket and won't take off and go to a fault, Hurts will take off and go and leave a ton of yards out on the field because his internal clock is constantly moving way too fast. Teams didn't worry about Hurts beating them deep and in general they didn't respect his ability to read a defense, that won't change in the NFL.

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and a slightly lesser athlete.

That is like saying that Dante Pettis is a slightly lesser athlete than Tyreek Hill. Jackson is on a whole other level of explosiveness. Vick was the last QB that really compared athletically.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
No thanks

I'd take him with a 4th or 5th rounder and put him in the Taysom Hill role. He compares favorably to Tebow/Prescott. Better passer than Tebow but not as good as Prescott. I think he'd work well in that role but not as a fulltime QB. Dude has also been working with a passing coachb for a few years which is +5 points for initiative but also disconcerting because he doesn't appear to have gotten any better really. Lamar Jackson and Deshan Watson both worked with QB coaches and you could see the improvement in their games throughout college. Hurts, not so much.

I also see a little Alex Smith to him. Clearly a high understanding of football and offenses in general but when he's out on the field, dude seems to be in his own head too much, either staring down receivers or being way too quick to bail and not see the play through.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:
I disagree. Hurts might be a better passer at this point in comparison and a slightly lesser athlete.

He isn't. Jackson his junior year at Louisville WAS their entire offense. He improved leaps and bound as a passer playing in an offense that had a lot of pro level concepts. Hurts couldn't hold on to his job at a Bama program that was loaded with top draft picks on offense, transferred to Oklahoma where he was also surrounded by top tier talent on offense, failed to show any real improvement as a passer. He had the best pass blocking in the nation and still struggled with his decision making and getting the ball out quickly.

Hurts also lacks the arm and the deep passing ability of Lamar Jackson. I think a better overall comparison is Dak Prescott who was also compared to Tebow and having studied Prescott pretty closely, I still think he was further along as a passer. Hurts is your classic "one read and go" guy. Where someone like CJ Beathard has far too much patience in the pocket and won't take off and go to a fault, Hurts will take off and go and leave a ton of yards out on the field because his internal clock is constantly moving way too fast. Teams didn't worry about Hurts beating them deep and in general they didn't respect his ability to read a defense, that won't change in the NFL.

.be

and a slightly lesser athlete.

That is like saying that Dante Pettis is a slightly lesser athlete than Tyreek Hill. Jackson is on a whole other level of explosiveness. Vick was the last QB that really compared athletically.

Again I think you're wrong. Jackson never completed more than 59% of his passes in college and his first two years were 54% and 56%. Hurts his last two seasons are at 72.9% and 69.7%. Hurts in 4 years in college committed 20 picks to Lamar's 27 in 3 seasons. Hurts IMO played far superior competition between the two and I think at this point in their careers is seen as the better leader as most draftniks highlight his selflessness and leadership as his best attributes.

Physically Hurts was two yards short of 1300 yards rushing last year and scored 20 times. Lamar was certainly more explosive but they both run like RB's at the QB position.

Hurts is going to be a 1st round pick IMO and he has the potential to develop under the right circumstances IMO just like Jackson needed to in Baltimore.

Hurts was also looked the role as one of the best passers at the combine in comparison to the rest of the guys and with his improved footwork had no issues with the deep ball or throwing short. His issues IMO are all between the ears much like a young A.Smith.

Originally posted by jcs:
Again I think you're wrong. Jackson never completed more than 59% of his passes in college and his first two years were 54% and 56%. Hurts his last two seasons are at 72.9% and 69.7%. Hurts in 4 years in college committed 20 picks to Lamar's 27 in 3 seasons. Hurts IMO played far superior competition between the two and I think at this point in their careers is seen as the better leader as most draftniks highlight his selflessness and leadership as his best attributes.

Physically Hurts was two yards short of 1300 yards rushing last year and scored 20 times. Lamar was certainly more explosive but they both run like RB's at the QB position.

Hurts is going to be a 1st round pick IMO and he has the potential to develop under the right circumstances IMO just like Jackson needed to in Baltimore.

Hurts was also looked the role as one of the best passers at the combine in comparison to the rest of the guys and with his improved footwork had no issues with the deep ball or throwing short. His issues IMO are all between the ears much like a young A.Smith.

Watch the tape. Stop pulling numbers without any context. Not all the throws are the same. I can throw a 100 5-yard passes and complete every single one for 100% CoMplEtIoN peRcEntAgE

Want to debate? Pull up the tape. This isn't a math class. Numbers mean s**t without being contextualized.

Originally posted by jcs:
Again I think you're wrong. Jackson never completed more than 59% of his passes in college and his first two years were 54% and 56%. Hurts his last two seasons are at 72.9% and 69.7%. Hurts in 4 years in college committed 20 picks to Lamar's 27 in 3 seasons. Hurts IMO played far superior competition between the two and I think at this point in their careers is seen as the better leader as most draftniks highlight his selflessness and leadership as his best attributes.

Physically Hurts was two yards short of 1300 yards rushing last year and scored 20 times. Lamar was certainly more explosive but they both run like RB's at the QB position.

Hurts is going to be a 1st round pick IMO and he has the potential to develop under the right circumstances IMO just like Jackson needed to in Baltimore.

Hurts was also looked the role as one of the best passers at the combine in comparison to the rest of the guys and with his improved footwork had no issues with the deep ball or throwing short. His issues IMO are all between the ears much like a young A.Smith.

Do I really need to tell you why its terrible logic to base your argument about a college player entirely on stats? That is a horrible argument. If we're merely looking at stats then Colt Brennan should have been the GOAT QB of all time.

Hurts absolutely should have a much higher completion percentage. He was largely dinking and dunking and only throwing to guys when they were wide open. Opposing defenses were going all out to stop the Bama run game. At Oklahoma, he had the top OL in the country. Jackson for better or worse was slinging it around the field while escaping from pressure and he didn't have numerous 1st round caliber targets to throw to along with a top end OL while still going up against higher level competition like Clemson.

That also goes a long way to explain the differences in INTs. Jackson was playing #YOLO ball more often because if he didn't have a huge game, Louisville lost. He couldn't afford to play conservative. Hurts was surrounded by upper level talent and his biggest duty was simply not to screw it up for the Bama run game and defense. Jackson took over games and willed his teams to victories in games that Louisville had absolutely zero business winning. Anytime teams dared Hurts to beat them with his arm, he typically came up short.

These two guys are both black, they are both athletic. That is about it. Jackson was miles away the better college QB and the better NFL prospect. That he fell as far as he did was an indictment on short-sighted teams overlooking a guy that had been consistently getting better as a passer throughout his college career.

Ask Bama and Oklahoma fans about Hurts and his many limitations. He's an athletic game manager at best.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by jcs:
Again I think you're wrong. Jackson never completed more than 59% of his passes in college and his first two years were 54% and 56%. Hurts his last two seasons are at 72.9% and 69.7%. Hurts in 4 years in college committed 20 picks to Lamar's 27 in 3 seasons. Hurts IMO played far superior competition between the two and I think at this point in their careers is seen as the better leader as most draftniks highlight his selflessness and leadership as his best attributes.

Physically Hurts was two yards short of 1300 yards rushing last year and scored 20 times. Lamar was certainly more explosive but they both run like RB's at the QB position.

Hurts is going to be a 1st round pick IMO and he has the potential to develop under the right circumstances IMO just like Jackson needed to in Baltimore.

Hurts was also looked the role as one of the best passers at the combine in comparison to the rest of the guys and with his improved footwork had no issues with the deep ball or throwing short. His issues IMO are all between the ears much like a young A.Smith.

Watch the tape. Stop pulling numbers without any context. Not all the throws are the same. I can throw a 100 5-yard passes and complete every single one for 100% CoMplEtIoN peRcEntAgE

Want to debate? Pull up the tape. This isn't a math class. Numbers mean s**t without being contextualized.

Yards per attempted pass their last year in college....L.Jackson 8.5, J.Hurts 11.3. Adjusted passing yards go up considerably for Hurts to 12.2 vs 8.7.

with as little draft capital as we have and our backup QB position still solidified, no

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:
Again I think you're wrong. Jackson never completed more than 59% of his passes in college and his first two years were 54% and 56%. Hurts his last two seasons are at 72.9% and 69.7%. Hurts in 4 years in college committed 20 picks to Lamar's 27 in 3 seasons. Hurts IMO played far superior competition between the two and I think at this point in their careers is seen as the better leader as most draftniks highlight his selflessness and leadership as his best attributes.

Physically Hurts was two yards short of 1300 yards rushing last year and scored 20 times. Lamar was certainly more explosive but they both run like RB's at the QB position.

Hurts is going to be a 1st round pick IMO and he has the potential to develop under the right circumstances IMO just like Jackson needed to in Baltimore.

Hurts was also looked the role as one of the best passers at the combine in comparison to the rest of the guys and with his improved footwork had no issues with the deep ball or throwing short. His issues IMO are all between the ears much like a young A.Smith.

Do I really need to tell you why its terrible logic to base your argument about a college player entirely on stats? That is a horrible argument. If we're merely looking at stats then Colt Brennan should have been the GOAT QB of all time.

Hurts absolutely should have a much higher completion percentage. He was largely dinking and dunking and only throwing to guys when they were wide open. Opposing defenses were going all out to stop the Bama run game. At Oklahoma, he had the top OL in the country. Jackson for better or worse was slinging in around the field while escaping from pressure and he didn't have numerous 1st round caliber targets to throw to along with a top end OL while still going up against higher level competition like Clemson.

That also goes a long way to explaining the differences in INTs. Jackson was playing #YOLO ball more often because if he didn't have a huge game, Louisville lost. Hurts was surrounded by upper level talent and his biggest duty was simply not to screw it up for the Bama run game and defense. Jackson took over games and willed his teams to victories in games that Louisville had absolutely zero business winning. Anytime teams dared Hurts to beat them with his arm, he typically came up short.

These two guys are both black, they are both athletic. That is about it. Jackson was miles away the better college QB and the better NFL prospect. That he fell as far as he did was an indictment on short-sighted teams overlooking a guy that had been consistently getting better as a passer throughout his college career.

Ask Bama and Oklahoma fans about Hurts and his many limitations. He's an athletic game manager at best.

Dinking and dunking? Go look at the Yards per attempt and completion.

You want to railroad him into a T.Hill role and I'm saying he's going in the 1st round. We'll have to wait and see.

Originally posted by jcs:
Dinking and dunking? Go look at the Yards per attempt and completion.

You want to railroad him into a T.Hill role and I'm saying he's going in the 1st round. We'll have to wait and see.

Go look at actual game footage and not stats for some context. I don't care where Hurts goes, I wouldn't take him before the 4th round. He doesn't have an elite arm, he doesn't process things at an elite level, he doesn't have elite athleticism, I'm not taking a QB in the 1st round that doesn't have any elite traits. He's a good dude and has strong leadership ability but teams will care f**k all about leadership ability if they don't think that a guy can perform. Christian Ponder was well regarded for his leadership ability and he was a much better overall prospect than Hurts.

Go watch the LSU vs Oklahoma game from December. LSU's entire gameplan on defense was best summed up as "Jalen Hurts, we dare you to go ahead and beat us with your arm!" Hurts finished 15-31 for 220 yards and an INT.

I think his ceiling is Dak Prescott while his floor is JT Barrett.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:

Dinking and dunking? Go look at the Yards per attempt and completion.

You want to railroad him into a T.Hill role and I'm saying he's going in the 1st round. We'll have to wait and see.

Go look at actual game footage and not stats for some context. I don't care where Hurts goes, I wouldn't take him before the 4th round. He doesn't have an elite arm, he doesn't process things at an elite level, he doesn't have elite athleticism, I'm not taking a QB in the 1st round that doesn't have any elite traits. He's a good dude and has strong leadership ability but teams will care f**k all about leadership ability if they don't think that a guy can perform. Christian Ponder was well regarded for his leadership ability and he was a much better overall prospect than Hurts.

Go watch the LSU vs Oklahoma game from December. LSU's entire gameplan on defense was best summed up as "Jalen Hurts, we dare you to go ahead and beat us with your arm!" Hurts finished 15-31 for 220 yards and an INT.

I think his ceiling is Dak Prescott while his floor is JT Barrett.

JT Barrett was a HORRIBLE NFL prospect. Having seen every one of Barrett's games, I can tell you easily that Hurts will never be as poor a passer as Barrett.