13th pick

Originally posted by All22:
The formula that got us to the SB was 4 10+ sack guys along the d-line. None of these DT's will have that ability in year 1... And maybe not ever. It's really hard to find 10+ sack interior guys.

We'd be better off moving Armstead inside and drafting an edge guy

It's the disappointing reality with interior guys. I'm done being onboard with drafting IDL guys early.

When you look at the top-10 IDL lists form the last few seasons, it's the same guys listed over and over again. And half of them weren't drafted in the first round(ie Chris Jones, Grady Jarret, Geno Atkins, etc). IDL have a much tougher time transitioning their pass rush ability and productivity to the NFL compared to their EDGE counterparts.

Originally posted by Heroism:
It's the disappointing reality with interior guys. I'm done being onboard with drafting IDL guys early.

When you look at the top-10 IDL lists form the last few seasons, it's the same guys listed over and over again. And half of them weren't drafted in the first round(ie Chris Jones, Grady Jarret, Geno Atkins, etc). IDL have a much tougher time transitioning their pass rush ability and productivity to the NFL compared to their EDGE counterparts.

I'm starting to warm up to Derek Brown DL from Auburn after seeing a few mock experts pinning Brown to the Niners at #13. I know it's not the sexy pick but this guy is a beast! Even if it takes awhile for him to develop his pass rushing skills, good luck running at him. Can't remember the last time the Niners have had a Casey Hampton type of guy in the defensive middle. Plus, when you are surrounded by Bosa/Dee and Armstead, Brown with his violent hands will sneak thru for some pressure and sacks. This guy is a bully!!!!!!!!

Perhaps pick Brown and then we still have a ton of WRs to choose from even if we trade down from 31.

Originally posted by pete98146:

Originally posted by Heroism:
It's the disappointing reality with interior guys. I'm done being onboard with drafting IDL guys early.

When you look at the top-10 IDL lists form the last few seasons, it's the same guys listed over and over again. And half of them weren't drafted in the first round(ie Chris Jones, Grady Jarret, Geno Atkins, etc). IDL have a much tougher time transitioning their pass rush ability and productivity to the NFL compared to their EDGE counterparts.

I'm starting to warm up to Derek Brown DL from Auburn after seeing a few mock experts pinning Brown to the Niners at #13. I know it's not the sexy pick but this guy is a beast! Even if it takes awhile for him to develop his pass rushing skills, good luck running at him. Can't remember the last time the Niners have had a Casey Hampton type of guy in the defensive middle. Plus, when you are surrounded by Bosa/Dee and Armstead, Brown with his violent hands will sneak thru for some pressure and sacks. This guy is a bully!!!!!!!!

Perhaps pick Brown and then we still have a ton of WRs to choose from even if we trade down from 31.

Yeah, Brown is going to be an option at #13 - just hoping he falls to us.

Totally unrelated but i havent seen any Maddogg post where is thou

Originally posted by nahumse:

Totally unrelated but i havent seen any Maddogg post where is thou

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/193629-who-do-we-take-at/page3/

He's not gonna be in on this draft

Originally posted by RTFirefly:
4.28 speed
4.28 speed
4.28 speed

Undead Al Davis was a nutcase, who repeatedly failed drafting WRs for speed (Cliff Branch worked out fine, though, really fine). But I'm addicted to it and it shows this time of year, every year. Give me Ruggs!

Speed is what it is but on the field, the difference between 4.27 or 4.28 and 4.45 or 4.48 isn't that great. These guys don't just take off and run as fast as they can when the ball is snapped. They have to work to get open if they are up against a good corner which is one reason you have never seen a 4.2 something guy ever lead the NFL. They are usually smaller and that extra speed only really shows when they get wide open and have a chance to run away from the defender. Those plays don't happen very often in the NFL.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Speed is what it is but on the field, the difference between 4.27 or 4.28 and 4.45 or 4.48 isn't that great.

That's not true at all. Elite speed affects everything from how a DC calls a coverage to how a cornerback and safety play in their technique. It's more than just run down the field and catch a bomb. Speed opens up the field BOTH vertically AND horizontally with the number of orbit and jet motions that Kyle utilizes. Elite speed forces defenders to cheat(ie get started earlier than normal), and when they cheat in the wrong direction, bad things happen to them. Nobody uses those horizontal motions more than us. There's a reason Kyle has kept a 4.2 guy on every team he's been on.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:
4.28 speed
4.28 speed
4.28 speed

Undead Al Davis was a nutcase, who repeatedly failed drafting WRs for speed (Cliff Branch worked out fine, though, really fine). But I'm addicted to it and it shows this time of year, every year. Give me Ruggs!

Speed is what it is but on the field, the difference between 4.27 or 4.28 and 4.45 or 4.48 isn't that great. These guys don't just take off and run as fast as they can when the ball is snapped. They have to work to get open if they are up against a good corner which is one reason you have never seen a 4.2 something guy ever lead the NFL. They are usually smaller and that extra speed only really shows when they get wide open and have a chance to run away from the defender. Those plays don't happen very often in the NFL.

Have you missed the impact Tyreek Hill has had on the Chiefs?

And before you bring up Mahomes' arm...Alex Smith would like a word with you.

again I hate needing to grab a WR after we got 3 in the last two years but if one of the big 3 are available at 13 I say we pull the trigger. If they're gone, BPA/Trey Down and hope someone like Raegor is available around 31 (or later if we trade out)

EDIT: only cause I don't feel like we are resigning Sanders

Originally posted by genus49:
Have you missed the impact Tyreek Hill has had on the Chiefs?

And before you bring up Mahomes' arm...Alex Smith would like a word with you.

That's because the Chiefs have a QB that scrambles around to keep plays alive and has one of the best arms in the league. Very few teams throw the ball deep effectively. it's by far the least accurate of all pass plays so they use it at the end of half or trying to play catch up. We've had several receivers over the years that have run sub 4.3 and not one has led the league in receptions. At Alabama last year, Jeudy had 77 receptions and Ruggs had 40 against college defenses which aren't close to NFL defenses. If speed was such a huge advantage, why aren't these super fast guys leading the league all the time. Answer is pretty obvious. The QB throws to who is getting open.

If the 4.28 guy can run the same routes, get open just as often and catch the ball as well he would be getting those targets since the speed after the catch would be an advantage. Goodwin has the speed but doesn't run great routes and has bad hands. When you watch a track meet, they show that freeze frame at the finish of the 100 meters. The distance between the top 3 or 4 finishers is sometime 2 or 3 strides from first to 4th but the time will be 9.75, 9.78, 9.85 and 9.9. And these are guys that are running flat out with nobody to bump them or hand fight as the are going down the field.

I like speed too but too many put way more importance on it than I do. If it was really that important, the fastest guy would get picked first every year. Of course we know that's not how it works. If the fastest guy is the best receiver then you pick him but that's not usually the case.

Would the corner from Florida be a reach at 13?

I hope we dont draft the kid..

Lynch missed on T-Waynes of the Vikings.. this woulda been a GREAT signing !!! 3 for 27??

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Speed is what it is but on the field, the difference between 4.27 or 4.28 and 4.45 or 4.48 isn't that great.

That's not true at all.

From a guy who was at his physical peak when college teams were figuring out how to understand 40 times....... I agree with CatchMaster60.

I have told this story several times over the years, but i went from a 4.62 down to a 4.47 during a 3 week summer camp that TRAINED on how to run the 40. It did not make me functionally faster.

I played on two teams that produced NFL players. One of them a skill position player, (Irving Spikes) and the fastest he ever ran the 40 was 4.63 (4.69 combine time)... I never caught that guy from behind during practice, or trying to block for him on special teams....ever.....period..... We played Terrel Buckley twice, he out ran T Buck at LEAST once for a long TD (thats a 4.39 Pro Bowl CB.....and for the record T Buck beat me for a 69 yard TD once...never caught him either but it was closer then how Spikes use to run away from me, no hard feelings tho, I ended up working for the Terrel Buckley Foundation later on, very....very....cool dude)

the problem with using 40 times to determine speed, is you are dealing with a measurement that is better suited to show acceleration then speed. That is what makes CatchMaster's statement entirely true.

Over the the length of 40 yards the difference between 4.30 and 4.45 could be with-in the wingspan of the average 6 foot CB.

in fact based on stride and height of the player ( again the reason Catch Master is correct) you could have a 4.6 guy running by 4.2 or 4.3 guys based on length of the field or angles, simply watch ANY of Jerry Rices high light reels and that will be very apparent.

40 times are a staple that are used to show how quick someone is, they are not the end all be all, and in the case of WRs don't tell us who will dominate the NFL.

In the open field MPH at full stride is king....period.....

Originally posted by Dshearn:

In the open field MPH at full stride is king....period.....

Huh? I'm not talking about the importance of a 40 time, I'm talking about the importance of elite speed in Kyle's offense.

Oh, and:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
From a guy who was at his physical peak when college teams were figuring out how to understand 40 times....... I agree with CatchMaster60.

I have told this story several times over the years, but i went from a 4.62 down to a 4.47 during a 3 week summer camp that TRAINED on how to run the 40. It did not make me functionally faster.

I played on two teams that produced NFL players. One of them a skill position player, (Irving Spikes) and the fastest he ever ran the 40 was 4.63 (4.69 combine time)... I never caught that guy from behind during practice, or trying to block for him on special teams....ever.....period..... We played Terrel Buckley twice, he out ran T Buck at LEAST once for a long TD (thats a 4.39 Pro Bowl CB.....and for the record T Buck beat me for a 69 yard TD once...never caught him either but it was closer then how Spikes use to run away from me, no hard feelings tho, I ended up working for the Terrel Buckley Foundation later on, very....very....cool dude)

the problem with using 40 times to determine speed, is you are dealing with a measurement that is better suited to show acceleration then speed. That is what makes CatchMaster's statement entirely true.

Over the the length of 40 yards the difference between 4.30 and 4.45 could be with-in the wingspan of the average 6 foot CB.

in fact based on stride and height of the player ( again the reason Catch Master is correct) you could have a 4.6 guy running by 4.2 or 4.3 guys based on length of the field or angles, simply watch ANY of Jerry Rices high light reels and that will be very apparent.

40 times are a staple that are used to show how quick someone is, they are not the end all be all, and in the case of WRs don't tell us who will dominate the NFL.

In the open field MPH at full stride is king....period.....

Great stuff.