Javon Kinlaw-DT-South Carolina

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
you said they moved on from Buckner because he wasnt a good fit and too big, what am i missing?

Yeah, that's not what I wrote. One of the reason=/=the reason, and I explicitly stated in the run game. Defo is a beast as pass rusher in any scheme because pass rush is pass rush

Defo was drafted to play in an okie front from a head-up alignment where he was asked to control the point of attack. That's a 180 from what Kocurek asks of his 3tech. This is a penetrating scheme. They want those interior guys splitting gaps, getting skinny, and avoiding being washed down. That's not what Defo does. It's the reason our run defense struggled mightily at times this season.

The run defense could get a lot worse without Buckner tying up as many double teams as he did for us.

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
you said they moved on from Buckner because he wasnt a good fit and too big, what am i missing?

Yeah, that's not what I wrote. One of the reason=/=the reason, and I explicitly stated in the run game. Defo is a beast as pass rusher in any scheme because pass rush is pass rush

Defo was drafted to play in an okie front from a head-up alignment where he was asked to control the point of attack. That's a 180 from what Kocurek asks of his 3tech. This is a penetrating scheme. They want those interior guys splitting gaps, getting skinny, and avoiding being washed down. That's not what Defo does. It's the reason our run defense struggled mightily at times this season.

The run defense could get a lot worse without Buckner tying up as many double teams as he did for us.

this, you lose a talent like that youre going to drop off. So I have no clue what buddy is talking about, now im eager to see how AA does when he doesnt have Buckner next to him eating up doubles

Originally posted by Hopper:
The run defense could get a lot worse without Buckner tying up as many double teams as he did for us.

I mean that's the point that's I'm trying to make. They don't want their 3tech taking on double teams. They want him penetrating.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Hopper:
The run defense could get a lot worse without Buckner tying up as many double teams as he did for us.

I mean that's the point that's I'm trying to make. They don't want their 3tech taking on double teams. They want him penetrating.

Maybe but It's going to be much easier for the guards to get to the second level and get a hat on our LB's.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Hopper:
The run defense could get a lot worse without Buckner tying up as many double teams as he did for us.

I mean that's the point that's I'm trying to make. They don't want their 3tech taking on double teams. They want him penetrating.

I love it when you talk dirty.

Kocurek's former player describing what they ultimately want from those two interior players. Here's a hint: it starts with the letter p.





I was one of Defo's biggest fans on this board, so miss me with any b******t about wanting to get rid of him. But if you truly understand this scheme and how offenses try to attack it, then everything I've said is just facts. I've discussed this with thl many times in the film thread.

I really don't think what Hero is saying is that hard to grasp. The niners could have afforded bucker, if they valued him at 21 per. It's not hard to believe that a great player and perfect scheme fit is more valuable to the niners than just a great player. Of course we move backwards without buckner, he isn't disputing that.

With that being said, back to Kinlaw. It's him or Ruggs for me. I'd move AA inside to 3T full time (maybe not what the coaches want) and have Kinlaw play 5T in base and kick in for nickel. He is a protypical 3-4 DE, but quiet hard to handle rushing from inside

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
I really don't think what Hero is saying is that hard to grasp. The niners could have afforded bucker, if they valued him at 21 per. It's not hard to believe that a great player and perfect scheme fit is more valuable to the niners than just a great player. Of course we move backwards without buckner, he isn't disputing that.

With that being said, back to Kinlaw. It's him or Ruggs for me. I'd move AA inside to 3T full time (maybe not what the coaches want) and have Kinlaw play 5T in base and kick in for nickel. He is a protypical 3-4 DE, but quiet hard to handle rushing from inside

Exactly. I love Defo and am bummed to see him go.

With that being said, back to Kinlaw. It's him or Ruggs for me. I'd move AA inside to 3T full time (maybe not what the coaches want) and have Kinlaw play 5T in base and kick in for nickel. He is a protypical 3-4 DE, but quiet hard to handle rushing from inside

Before Kocurek arrived, this would be the way to go, but they abandoned the 5t in base entirely last year in favor of the wide 9 in base. Everything points to them going all-in on the wide 9 moving forward.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Kocurek's former player describing what they ultimately want from those two interior players. Here's a hint: it starts with the letter p.

Very often. Alot will defend on the the coordinator, but we used it effectively against the pass & run. What it takes to be effective against the run is a really good three technique DT that can penetrate upfield & maintain his gap. if not, it's succeptible against the run

— Andre Fluellen (@flu_dot_com) July 30, 2019

1) So another really important position is the 2tech (playing either head up on the guard or shaded inside). In all actuality, the 2texh needs the be the most explosive interior player, the 3tech needs to have a little more balance & control. Here is why...

— Andre Fluellen (@flu_dot_com) July 31, 2019

2) playing a 1T puts alot of stress on the LB that may have the b gap, because there is ALOT of distance between the 1t and the 5t (defensive end). Playing the 2T (or 2i) helps balance out the integrity of the defense...

— Andre Fluellen (@flu_dot_com) July 31, 2019

3) so the 2tech has to be EXTREMELY quick because he's almost at a disadvantage to the offensive guard to get cut out of his gap. So it's all one gap, no reading or 2 gapping! In the words of Kris Kocurek "read is a 4 letter word!"

— Andre Fluellen (@flu_dot_com) July 31, 2019

I was one of Defo's biggest fans on this board, so miss me with any b******t about wanting to get rid of him. But if you truly understand this scheme and how offenses try to attack it, then everything I've said is just facts. I've discussed this with thl many times in the film thread.

Lol Mic drop.

Raekwon Davis in the later rounds

Wouldn't mind kinlaw at all, but lmfao at another dline for out first pick if it happens

Originally posted by gold49digger:

Wouldn't mind kinlaw at all, but lmfao at another dline for out first pick if it happens

People need to get over it. We drafted Bosa after 3 lineman in a row and it clearly was the right pick.

Now that AA has a new deal. Now would be the time to draft a rookie DT who fits the scheme better. Kinlaw would be fantastic.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Yeah, Hero, I can't really touch that one. Buckner may not have possessed the "typical" scheme-specific traits across the board, but he was such a phenomenal player that he really could fit any scheme whether it was 3-4 of 4-3 over/under/W9. I don't think they moved away from Buck for any other reason than being able to afford him and keep other pieces intact.

I agree with you OTC
This draft doesn't really have anyone that brings what Buckner did to our Defense
He is such a special talent if he were in this draft he would likely be the 1st player on the defensive side selected
Not that there are not excellent players in this draft just not as complete as Buckner...and that size!!!

Originally posted by Waterbear:
People need to get over it. We drafted Bosa after 3 lineman in a row and it clearly was the right pick.

Now that AA has a new deal. Now would be the time to draft a rookie DT who fits the scheme better. Kinlaw would be fantastic.

There are some intriguing DTs in this draft. They could go WR with the 1st pick, trade down a bit and go after a DT like Gallimore or Blacklock. The Falcons reportedly are high on the notion of lining up a guy like Gallimore next to Jarrett for example.

Originally posted by Orlando49erfan:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Yeah, Hero, I can't really touch that one. Buckner may not have possessed the "typical" scheme-specific traits across the board, but he was such a phenomenal player that he really could fit any scheme whether it was 3-4 of 4-3 over/under/W9. I don't think they moved away from Buck for any other reason than being able to afford him and keep other pieces intact.

I agree with you OTC
This draft doesn't really have anyone that brings what Buckner did to our Defense
He is such a special talent if he were in this draft he would likely be the 1st player on the defensive side selected
Not that there are not excellent players in this draft just not as complete as Buckner...and that size!!!