Not sold on 49ers picking a WR with 13th Pick

Originally posted by NYniner85:
There's plenty of failure first rd OL to talk about as well. Especially drafted in the middle of the 1st.

IMO the WR position if one of the most dependent positions in football. IMO You need a good QB and play caller to be successful. If you have those AND you're a great WR, you won't be a failure (outside of injuries).

OL is the most likely position to succeed when drafted in the 1st round. Centers, guards and tackles in that order. They aren't dependent on a QB to get them the ball but they also don't rely on a QB to make them look good. That may be one reason WRs in the 1st have a high failure rate. They can look a lot better than they are in college with a top QB and a wide open system against weak defenses. Even the best college defenses are nothing compared to the NFL.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ChuckLeavy32:

I was all about WR but if the line can't block it don't matter who we draft. If one of the tackles falls it has to be the pick. What's funny is we got Deebo in the 2nd round last year but we keep hearing we have to pick a WR at 13.

WRs that can get open quickly or make contested catches helps the QB and PP.

Also if we're fixing RG that's not something you spend a top 13 on.

I agree and I don't think it would be a Guard drafted, well not his permanent position. I just hope the picks in the first go to Offense.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by ChuckLeavy32:

I was all about WR but if the line can't block it don't matter who we draft. If one of the tackles falls it has to be the pick. What's funny is we got Deebo in the 2nd round last year but we keep hearing we have to pick a WR at 13.

Deebo actually had a higher avg YAC than Hill. 8.3 to 4.7. Hill had 860 yards on 58 receptions and Deebo had 802 on 57 receptions. Hill's avg catch traveled 10 yards in the air while Deebo's only traveled 5.8 yards in the air. Deebo also caught a higher percentage of his passes. &0.4 to 67.9.

Obviously Hill is considered a bigger threat but those numbers show that other than the occasional deep pass the 2 are very similar as far as production despite Hill running a 4.26 and Deebo running a 4.48. The avg speed for receivers at the combine is 4.48. There are 10 that have run sub 4.3 and none that have led the league in receptions so it seems like there is a point where additional speed isn't really the advantage that it would seem to be. Michael Irvin pointed this out at the combine and noted that the best receivers over history have been in the 4.45-4.55 range. That would make sense since most receivers fall in that range.

Those are good numbers to compare. Deebo should have a monster year. If I read this correctly you're saying we could use the 31st pick or later on a wr?

Originally posted by ChuckLeavy32:
Those are good numbers to compare. Deebo should have a monster year. If I read this correctly you're saying we could use the 31st pick or later on a wr?

I wouldn't whine if we did. I'm torn between taking one with #13 or taking an OL and then going WR at 31 or trading back. It will really depend on who is there at 13 when we pick. Remember, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what Kyle and John are thinking.
One other thing about passing on a WR at #13. Think back before the Buckner trade when we only had #31. We were all talking about which receiver was the best fit at that pick. A lot of us felt we should trade back and would still be able to get a good receiver. Ever since we got the 13th pick all those receivers we were praising before are now worthless. How did that happen?

Like I said I could go either way on this but finding a replacement for Staley if the opportunity is there may be the best choice. It's going to be a long 18 days as we sit in our cubby holes with nothing to do but wait and hope.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by ChuckLeavy32:

Those are good numbers to compare. Deebo should have a monster year. If I read this correctly you're saying we could use the 31st pick or later on a wr?

I wouldn't whine if we did. I'm torn between taking one with #13 or taking an OL and then going WR at 31 or trading back. It will really depend on who is there at 13 when we pick. Remember, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what Kyle and John are thinking.
One other thing about passing on a WR at #13. Think back before the Buckner trade when we only had #31. We were all talking about which receiver was the best fit at that pick. A lot of us felt we should trade back and would still be able to get a good receiver. Ever since we got the 13th pick all those receivers we were praising before are now worthless. How did that happen?

Like I said I could go either way on this but finding a replacement for Staley if the opportunity is there may be the best choice. It's going to be a long 18 days as we sit in our cubby holes with nothing to do but wait and hope.

Agree with everything

Originally posted by MrCrab49ers:

Originally posted by Vancouver49er:

Yes, I know the draft is full of quality WRs, some say the best WR class in years. And yes, we lost Emmanuel Sanders, and people say we need to replace him with one of the elite WRs available in the draft. But I don't think that in KS offensive schemes, a WR is as important as perhaps it is for other teams. Last season, JG completed 329 passes, of these 102 were caught by TEs. Namely, Kittle with 85, Dwelley with 15, and Toilolo with 2. That's almost one third of passes thrown, caught by a TE. Of the remaining 226 passes caught, 74 were caught by RBs and an FB. This means that 53% of passes were caught by a Non WR. I don't know if its the same with other teams, but it seems to me that KS schemes people open, people with good hands, regardless of the position they play. Are we bereft of quality WRs without Sanders? I don't think so. Deebo is certainly going to get increased targets, and Bourne is a serious Red Zone threat. We have added a veteran Travis Benjamin, and we still have the side players like Pettis, Goodwin, James, Wilson, and Matthews. They know they have to step up their games, especially with the returns of Jalen Hurd and Trent Taylor. There must be a reason that KS and John Lynch kept those 2 on injured reserve, and I am excited to see what they can do. And if they decided they really needed another WR, there are a lot of decent WRs in FA right now. I can't believe that the top 5 WRs in the draft are significantly better then some of these FA WRs out there right now. So much better that they warrant a first round pick on. Because of all these reasons, I just don't see JL and KS drafting a WR with the 13th pick. Maybe with the 31st pick if they don't trade out of it.

If Kinlaw, Derrick Brown, or wishful thinking, Chase Young/Isiah Simmons were there at 13, I think they have to go with one of them. Good rushers don't always hit the Free Agency Market, and if they did, there is a big demand for them. Not so much for FA WR. The front office needs to go defence with this first pick. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. If 49ers do get a receiver, it will be the type that they don't have in the building; cheap with Speed, Speed and Speed. Plenty of that at 31st.

You don't pass up quality playmaker based on hopes. You hope Trent Taylor comes back. You hope Hurd comes back from a serious back injury. You hope Pettis plays with an Alpha Male mentality. You hope Bourne gets better. You hope just in case they don't, Jimmy G gets better. You don't pass up blue chipper talent on "hopes", any GM who does that deserves the outcome hegets.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/05/david-johnson-deandre-hopkins-still-havent-passed-physicals/amp/

Now this could potentially affect our draft plans....

Originally posted by 16_to_80:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/05/david-johnson-deandre-hopkins-still-havent-passed-physicals/amp/

Now this could potentially affect our draft plans....

Not really, it'll still happen

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Not really. The clear two biggest reasons we lost the Superbowl was OL and CB...two positions that are very close to losing their anchors in Staley and Sherman.

The XWR you're focused on had 3 catches for 38 yards. We were up 10 points with 7 minutes to go until the OL s**t the bed and the defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes.

Even the incompletions were to open Y's (Kittle/Bourne) & Z's (Deebo)...just passes knocked down, or thrown too high d/t being rushed, defenders making diving PD's, etc.

Sanders at X was virtually non existent in the game plan and even he was in position to catch that bomb.

My argument is Ruggs catches that last bomb easy, and 49ers have #6.

Haha. But then you know Saleh would keep his finger on that soft-shell-defense button and the CB's would let Mahomes march right down the field in 1:50 for the 28th point in under 7 minutes and we lose.

Originally posted by goldlame2013:

Originally posted by MrCrab49ers:

Originally posted by Vancouver49er:
Yes, I know the draft is full of quality WRs, some say the best WR class in years. And yes, we lost Emmanuel Sanders, and people say we need to replace him with one of the elite WRs available in the draft. But I don't think that in KS offensive schemes, a WR is as important as perhaps it is for other teams. Last season, JG completed 329 passes, of these 102 were caught by TEs. Namely, Kittle with 85, Dwelley with 15, and Toilolo with 2. That's almost one third of passes thrown, caught by a TE. Of the remaining 226 passes caught, 74 were caught by RBs and an FB. This means that 53% of passes were caught by a Non WR. I don't know if its the same with other teams, but it seems to me that KS schemes people open, people with good hands, regardless of the position they play. Are we bereft of quality WRs without Sanders? I don't think so. Deebo is certainly going to get increased targets, and Bourne is a serious Red Zone threat. We have added a veteran Travis Benjamin, and we still have the side players like Pettis, Goodwin, James, Wilson, and Matthews. They know they have to step up their games, especially with the returns of Jalen Hurd and Trent Taylor. There must be a reason that KS and John Lynch kept those 2 on injured reserve, and I am excited to see what they can do. And if they decided they really needed another WR, there are a lot of decent WRs in FA right now. I can't believe that the top 5 WRs in the draft are significantly better then some of these FA WRs out there right now. So much better that they warrant a first round pick on. Because of all these reasons, I just don't see JL and KS drafting a WR with the 13th pick. Maybe with the 31st pick if they don't trade out of it.

If Kinlaw, Derrick Brown, or wishful thinking, Chase Young/Isiah Simmons were there at 13, I think they have to go with one of them. Good rushers don't always hit the Free Agency Market, and if they did, there is a big demand for them. Not so much for FA WR. The front office needs to go defence with this first pick. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. If 49ers do get a receiver, it will be the type that they don't have in the building; cheap with Speed, Speed and Speed. Plenty of that at 31st.

You don't pass up quality playmaker based on hopes. You hope Trent Taylor comes back. You hope Hurd comes back from a serious back injury. You hope Pettis plays with an Alpha Male mentality. You hope Bourne gets better. You hope just in case they don't, Jimmy G gets better. You don't pass up blue chipper talent on "hopes", any GM who does that deserves the outcome hegets.

LOL!! Way to skew the dialogue.
What about HOPE that one of those supposed "blue chippers" turns out to be the real deal.
There are no Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson types in this draft. Your blue chippers all have that fragile look to them.
There IS a lot of depth in the WR class, with some studs with size, or speed, further down the supposed pecking order.
Makes more sense to get a blue chip OLman or DB, where the depth is not as great, first and address the WR later.
We'll see soon enough what the FO thinks.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

OL is the most likely position to succeed when drafted in the 1st round. Centers, guards and tackles in that order. They aren't dependent on a QB to get them the ball but they also don't rely on a QB to make them look good. That may be one reason WRs in the 1st have a high failure rate. They can look a lot better than they are in college with a top QB and a wide open system against weak defenses. Even the best college defenses are nothing compared to the NFL.

Ahh 1st rd pick centers Bradbury and Billy Price (Price even more) haven't been good picks at all. Price was a failure pick actually. The guy for the lions has been a fine center. It hasn't been all rainbows and unicorns drafting a center.

Guards don't typically get drafted in the first outside of generational talents like Martin/Nelson. How's josh Garnett doing? Colbert was taken 33 and is already on his 2nd team.

OTs, Tytus Howard sucked at tackle this yr, Wynn hasn't been special, Bolles is junk, Eric flowers was a epic failure at OT, K Miller hasn't been special at all etc etc...

Back in the day lineman were regarded as safe picks...that's simply not true now. The college spread offenses have made a lot of these linemen green at pass-protection

More Maiocco.


This is how MM works. Throws a "teaser" out to the fans, then follows that up with a full blown article with quotes in it. He's preparing the masses per "insider information." Right before the draft.

Like I was saying:

Do the 49ers need to come out of this draft with a No. 1 wideout? Maybe not. Tight end George Kittle is the team's No. 1 target, and Samuel is to be a good fit for the offense. Bourne proved to be reliable and could take on more responsibility, too.

The 49ers, however, can benefit from a player who can stress a defense, whether he's a deep threat on the outside, a red-zone target or a reliable player working the middle of the field to give Jimmy Garoppolo another option on third downs.

This draft has plenty of options for whatever it is the 49ers desire.

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:

Originally posted by goldlame2013:

Originally posted by MrCrab49ers:

Originally posted by Vancouver49er:
Yes, I know the draft is full of quality WRs, some say the best WR class in years. And yes, we lost Emmanuel Sanders, and people say we need to replace him with one of the elite WRs available in the draft. But I don't think that in KS offensive schemes, a WR is as important as perhaps it is for other teams. Last season, JG completed 329 passes, of these 102 were caught by TEs. Namely, Kittle with 85, Dwelley with 15, and Toilolo with 2. That's almost one third of passes thrown, caught by a TE. Of the remaining 226 passes caught, 74 were caught by RBs and an FB. This means that 53% of passes were caught by a Non WR. I don't know if its the same with other teams, but it seems to me that KS schemes people open, people with good hands, regardless of the position they play. Are we bereft of quality WRs without Sanders? I don't think so. Deebo is certainly going to get increased targets, and Bourne is a serious Red Zone threat. We have added a veteran Travis Benjamin, and we still have the side players like Pettis, Goodwin, James, Wilson, and Matthews. They know they have to step up their games, especially with the returns of Jalen Hurd and Trent Taylor. There must be a reason that KS and John Lynch kept those 2 on injured reserve, and I am excited to see what they can do. And if they decided they really needed another WR, there are a lot of decent WRs in FA right now. I can't believe that the top 5 WRs in the draft are significantly better then some of these FA WRs out there right now. So much better that they warrant a first round pick on. Because of all these reasons, I just don't see JL and KS drafting a WR with the 13th pick. Maybe with the 31st pick if they don't trade out of it.

If Kinlaw, Derrick Brown, or wishful thinking, Chase Young/Isiah Simmons were there at 13, I think they have to go with one of them. Good rushers don't always hit the Free Agency Market, and if they did, there is a big demand for them. Not so much for FA WR. The front office needs to go defence with this first pick. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. If 49ers do get a receiver, it will be the type that they don't have in the building; cheap with Speed, Speed and Speed. Plenty of that at 31st.

You don't pass up quality playmaker based on hopes. You hope Trent Taylor comes back. You hope Hurd comes back from a serious back injury. You hope Pettis plays with an Alpha Male mentality. You hope Bourne gets better. You hope just in case they don't, Jimmy G gets better. You don't pass up blue chipper talent on "hopes", any GM who does that deserves the outcome hegets.

LOL!! Way to skew the dialogue.
What about HOPE that one of those supposed "blue chippers" turns out to be the real deal.
There are no Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson types in this draft. Your blue chippers all have that fragile look to them.
There IS a lot of depth in the WR class, with some studs with size, or speed, further down the supposed pecking order.
Makes more sense to get a blue chip OLman or DB, where the depth is not as great, first and address the WR later.
We'll see soon enough what the FO thinks.

There is also always the possibility of a modified season, shortened training camp, season starting late or God forbid no football. No one can be sure at this time. WR's have more variables for success than CB,OL,Edge. If the above were to happen I would feel more comfortable with the others rather than a WR. Then go Wr next year or use a next year pick or one of our later picks in this draft. KS needs a better idea what the future holds for DP,TT,MG and JH. jmtc

Originally posted by NCommand:

More Maiocco.

Do the #49ers need a superstar wide receiver from this draft or should they wait a while and go after a player to fit a specific profile to give the offense something it lacks?https://t.co/ZD1mCxpuwQ

— Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoNBCS) April 6, 2020

This is how MM works. Throws a "teaser" out to the fans, then follows that up with a full blown article with quotes in it. He's preparing the masses per "insider information." Right before the draft.

Like I was saying:

Do the 49ers need to come out of this draft with a No. 1 wideout? Maybe not. Tight end George Kittle is the team's No. 1 target, and Samuel is to be a good fit for the offense. Bourne proved to be reliable and could take on more responsibility, too.

The 49ers, however, can benefit from a player who can stress a defense, whether he's a deep threat on the outside, a red-zone target or a reliable player working the middle of the field to give Jimmy Garoppolo another option on third downs.

This draft has plenty of options for whatever it is the 49ers desire.

And given our visits

Originally posted by FL9er:

Originally posted by 16_to_80:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/05/david-johnson-deandre-hopkins-still-havent-passed-physicals/amp/

Now this could potentially affect our draft plans....

Not really, it'll still happen

Tons of physicals still haven't been done.